27" scale w/ trem OR multiscale w/ no trem?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by starbelly, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. starbelly

    starbelly SS.org Regular

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    Hi all,

    I've long been considering getting a 7-string, and I'm looking into eventually getting a Kiesel Vader 7. However, I'm stuck deciding between a 27" scale Vader with the newer Hipshot trem, or a multiscale Vader without the trem.

    I've always wanted a guitar with a trem, but I've heard that multiscale is the way to go.

    Are the benefits of a multiscale guitar so great that you should go without a trem?

    Any feedback would be great greatly appreciated!
     
  2. ThePIGI King

    ThePIGI King Death Will Reign

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    Personal preference really.

    Do you really want to be able to vibrato and flutter? If so, get the trem. Fanned guitars are beneficial primarily if you don't want to sacrifice the shorter scale for the higher strings to acheive the longer scale for your lower strings. I play on 8's without a fan and am very satisfied with the tone and tension, and I'd mod it for a trem if I had the available funds.

    To each their own.
     
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  3. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    You can have both with Strandberg, multiscale AND trem... just saying... never actually played one.
     
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  4. cardinal

    cardinal SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, seems like a Strandberg would do it. Otherwise, I'd probably just do straight 27" and trem. The fans I've played have been surprisingly comfortable and natural feeling. But 27" isn't uncomfortable and when you need a trem, you need a trem.
     
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  5. starbelly

    starbelly SS.org Regular

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    Damn, the more I think about it, the less I think I need a trem haha. Nonetheless I'll look into the Strandbergs!
     
  6. trem licking

    trem licking SS.org Regular

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    a trem is gonna offer you way more benefits than a fan will. fans are only necessary when you go to extremes like 10 string guitars and super super low tunings. a fan is definitely not necessary on a 7 unless you know for a fact you like how they play ergonomically.
     
  7. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    You can do both things though.
     
  8. starbelly

    starbelly SS.org Regular

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    Good point. I suppose I'd need to try them out first.
     
  9. starbelly

    starbelly SS.org Regular

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    I should have specified: I'm looking into a Kiesel Vader, and the multi scale version doesn't have a tremolo option. The Strandbergs do, but they seem quite a bit more expensive.
     
  10. kuma

    kuma SS.org Regular

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    Just FYI, last I heard, Kiesel won't do the 27" scale with a trem. I think Jeff said if someone wanted to pony up for the programming charge on one he'd make it, and then add the option, but I don't think anyone's taken him up on that yet. Call to be sure.

    Personally I greatly prefer multiscale on a 7 for the extra tension on the low string, but I also really like the tone and feel a trem adds, so I tend to just stick to 6s, but it's a highly personal choice.
     
  11. starbelly

    starbelly SS.org Regular

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    Ah I see. I saw that getting a trem AND a 27" scale length was an option.

    Now I'm focusing my attention as to whether I should go for the lithium pickups (of which there are many mixed reviews), to the Holdsworth ones.
     
  12. laxu

    laxu SS.org Regular

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    Strandbergs have a pretty miserably small fan on their 7-string model though and that's how they make the trem possible. For a 7-string 27" on the low B string is perfect.

    I would go multiscale over trem every time.
     
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  13. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    I *believe* Strandbergs is only 25.5-26.25 on the 7. It's only 25-25.5 on the 6 string.
     
  14. rockskate4x

    rockskate4x rockskate4x

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    I played a holdsworth with holdsworth pups and several vaders with lithiums at the kiesel showroom through a mark V. Holdsworth won by a long shot in my book. Lithiums sound... idk... notched and hollow? Holsworth's didn't have the same presence but i preferred the amount of body to the tone. I don't own any kiesels and i have never played these through my own amps so take everything i say with a massive grain of salt, but my observations seem consistent with what others have told me.
     
  15. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Move down from 10 to 9.5 on the top strings and 27" trebles will feel the same as 25.5" trebles. Fret stretches are like playing everything one fret lower.
    I love multiscale but agree there's no need at all when the treble strings are still short like 27" which results in no necessary tension increase if you gauge your strings right. I also don't know anything I can't play one fret lower. But granted, shorter IS nice !
     
  16. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    It depends on the tuning. The lower the tuning on the bass strings, or the higher the tuning on the treble strings, the more a fan makes sense. But if you’re playing a 7 string in B standard, 27 or even 25.5 would sound normal to just about every listener. Tune down past E1 and the math changes to the point that >27” is desireable. And tune up beyond E4 and less than 25.5” is desireable. That’s why you see so much fanning in 9 and 10 string guitars.
    For me, personally, I’d ALWAYS pick a trem over a fan on a 7 string.
     
  17. Snarpaasi

    Snarpaasi SS.org Regular

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    The more strings you have, the more painful it is to tune your guitar. This applies to every guitar of course, but at least I have to tune minimum 2 rounds each string with a trem. If you want fluid Holdsworth/Romeo lead lines maybe the trem is beneficial but to me it definitely is not worth the hassle.
     
  18. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    A tremel-no can be installed on either guitar. That way he can choose the degree of hassle/absence of laziness when he feels up to the pain of turning the tuners.
     
  19. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire 8 string hoarder

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    Personally I'd go with the multiscale option over a trem version, though that's just because I dislike trems. Vaders are great guitars as long as you don't go too crazy with the specs or choose a lot of bright woods (the lithiums sound horrible in ash or alder imo). mahogany and koa actually make the lithiums pretty nice since they tame the brightness. If you really require a headless multiscale trem loaded guitar then it's pretty much strandberg or a custom shop like waghorn, xen, oaf, etc. I can't really speak towards the trem version of the strandbergs but overall I found the old OS/OSLE lineup lacking compared to my vaders (which were similarly priced). Seems like the newer bodens are supposedly higher quality though.
     
  20. cGoEcYk

    cGoEcYk SS.org Regular

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    I mainly just play open F# so I dont have need for a solo bar.
     
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