[hairychris]

Thing is it only takes a tiny amount to affect the chemical levels in your brain.

The days I've spent throwing up after dosage changes aren't placebo. I hope.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

Hey asshole. My dad is fucking dead from cancer now.

Look man, I'm sorry about your dad, but pretty much everyone knows someone in their immediate family who's died of cancer. It's like the second most common cause of death in the US. My grandpa died of cancer, and my mom will probably die of lung cancer at the rate she's smoking. Don't think I'm some naive dipshit, I see people dead or dying all the time.

And no, no doctor stressed to my dad the importance of exercise and diet.

I have a really hard time believing you, but let's just assume you're right. Can you honestly say you need a doctor to tell you that a healthy diet and exercise are good, if not vital things?

They prescribed one pill after another. Again, and again. Pill, pill, pill. Like I said, my mom did her OWN research. Every time he was hospitalized, it was, "Hey, take these pills." The steroids he was prescribed caused him to develop diabetes, and all they did was prescribe more pills.

And once again, what's your beef with pills. And by the way, steroid induced diabetes almost always goes away after the steroids are taken away, and chemotherapy remains the best chance at surviving once you have cancer.

When my mom followed the doctors' strict advice, my dad could barely walk from the street to his car. But she took him OFF many of his meds, designed a diet that worked HERSELF, and took the initiative to plan my dad's exercise regimen. The doc's advice? Physical therapy and fucking pills.

Yeah, guess what. The side effects from chemo are really fucking rough. Nobody will tell you otherwise. If you take someone off their chemo meds, they're going to superficially seem to get better, but if you want to get rid of the fucking cancer, it's your best bet.

And JP, while I won't get into the rest of this discussion I'll say that you'll be pretty pissed at Zoloft when you do run across the right lady and can't answer the call to arms - and that'll probably do a thousand times more than the best of pills if you have, in fact, run across (or perhaps into...) the right lady.

I think you're misunderstanding. Anorgasmia != erectile dysfunction. I can get and maintain an erection easily. Anorgasmia means, for lack of a better phrase, it takes more to get it to go away.

As for the chmeotherapy advocate, yeah it has it's place I suppose, but to me it's ridiculous. Chemicals designed to kill cancer, do that opposite of what the body is supposed to do. Fight off disease with the immune system. Chemeo renders the immune system useless.

Maybe because for one thing, cancerous cells are of your own body, and your immune system is designed to fight off foreign invaders? The only way the immune system is going to even recognize that it should be attacking a tumor in the first place is if there's been some mutation that causes the cell wall peptides to change, or if there's a grossly out of whack ratio of the various cell wall peptides.

The people who have overcome cancer without drugs have a will and resolve that most of us can't even begin to comprehend. That's why it's not common place.

Your told you have cancer. Can you convince yourself your well? Or be a yo yo between the belief of the doctor and your own personal belief your well. That's how miracles occur. Making up your mind. Wolf is on the right track. I haven't reached deep enough and gotten pissed off enough to say you know what. I've fucking had it. I waver. I do not have a firm resolve. I'm not focused consistently on being well, but instead freaking out about the next panic attack. It's a vicious cycle the way this works.

It takes an inner strength most will never understand to overcome this type of thing. But when you've reached a point where you've had it, that's when something clicks.

Evidence, please. Are you implying that if you're absolutely certain you are not ill, you won't die? Attitude matters, but nowhere near as much as getting the right treatment.

I speak to a woman regularly on antoher forum. She had hodgkins lymphoma. She died for 45 minutes and had a near death experience. She said that during the NDE, she realized that the cancer was an illusion and was not real. It was only her belief in it as real that was causing her to be ill. I know this sounds nuts, but this woman is actually pretty well known. When she came back she was cancer free. Not 1 single cell.

Granted the NDE was the catalyst for her realization that nothing on this planet is real, other than what we take to be real. Pretty amazing story to say the least. This woman is a true inspiration. It's hard for us here in the physical to grasp that none of this is real. I know I can't. Try to convince yourself that cancer is not real when your sick and you've got everyone around you reaffirming the exact opposite of what you want to happen, which is health.

Oh ffs. If you honestly believe that, take a walk through the closest mental hospital. How come half the people in there aren't richer than Bill Gates?

Hey day 2 and look at me ha? 2nd day on prozac and the placebo effect is alive and well and I'm running on 4 hours of sleep after putting pickups in a new flying v that I got and bondoing and painting the top back wing that UPS was so kind to take a chunk out of.

First, most people have a misunderstanding of what the placebo effect is. QuackCast 5. Placebo Effect | Quackcast

Second, it's normal to be a little loopy the first week or so after starting an SSRI regimen because the chemical levels have yet to really stabilize.

Also, Zoloft is not Prozac, but they are both SSRIs.

Oh well, I heard one scientist, don't know how credible he is (Bruce Lipton) who says that only a small tiny portion of any drug actually gets in our body and it's mostly placebo effect. Don't know how true that is.

Lipton is another chiropractic/naturopathic quack. He's a Stanford grad, but for some reason quit doing real science in the early 80s, went on a 15 year sabbatical, came back, and started publishing shit like "Lipton, B. H. 2001 Insight into Cellular Consciousness. Bridges (ISSEEEM Org.) 12(1):5-9"

[hairychris]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

Second, it's normal to be a little loopy the first week or so after starting an SSRI regimen because the chemical levels have yet to really stabilize.

Also, Zoloft is not Prozac, but they are both SSRIs.

Ah, stuff has different trade names in different countries... oh, I think that Zoloft is the shit that's got a bad rep over here in the UK.

You're right about the first couple of weeks. You start thinking bad shit & you need to call your doctor ASAP. I found that the first week was OK but then it got weird for a few days as the levels built up.

Interesting experiences.

And I hate the day when I found out what SSRIs were. Still, mildly stoned > the untuned radio reciever that used to be sitting in my head!

[JBroll]

Good luck with those. As I said before, when I was put on them the psychologist (who recommended I try medication), my general practitioner (who actually wrote the script), and I thought that it would work as an anticompulsive. It turned me into a zombie and nothing worked right. Watch out for the things you care about and make sure you don't lose anything you need or enjoy...

Jeff

[unconventional]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

Look man, I'm sorry about your dad, but pretty much everyone knows someone in their immediate family who's died of cancer. It's like the second most common cause of death in the US. My grandpa died of cancer, and my mom will probably die of lung cancer at the rate she's smoking. Don't think I'm some naive dipshit, I see people dead or dying all the time.



I have a really hard time believing you, but let's just assume you're right. Can you honestly say you need a doctor to tell you that a healthy diet and exercise are good, if not vital things?



And once again, what's your beef with pills. And by the way, steroid induced diabetes almost always goes away after the steroids are taken away, and chemotherapy remains the best chance at surviving once you have cancer.



Yeah, guess what. The side effects from chemo are really fucking rough. Nobody will tell you otherwise. If you take someone off their chemo meds, they're going to superficially seem to get better, but if you want to get rid of the fucking cancer, it's your best bet.



I think you're misunderstanding. Anorgasmia != erectile dysfunction. I can get and maintain an erection easily. Anorgasmia means, for lack of a better phrase, it takes more to get it to go away.



Maybe because for one thing, cancerous cells are of your own body, and your immune system is designed to fight off foreign invaders? The only way the immune system is going to even recognize that it should be attacking a tumor in the first place is if there's been some mutation that causes the cell wall peptides to change, or if there's a grossly out of whack ratio of the various cell wall peptides.



Evidence, please. Are you implying that if you're absolutely certain you are not ill, you won't die? Attitude matters, but nowhere near as much as getting the right treatment.



Oh ffs. If you honestly believe that, take a walk through the closest mental hospital. How come half the people in there aren't richer than Bill Gates?



First, most people have a misunderstanding of what the placebo effect is. QuackCast 5. Placebo Effect | Quackcast

Second, it's normal to be a little loopy the first week or so after starting an SSRI regimen because the chemical levels have yet to really stabilize.

Also, Zoloft is not Prozac, but they are both SSRIs.



Lipton is another chiropractic/naturopathic quack. He's a Stanford grad, but for some reason quit doing real science in the early 80s, went on a 15 year sabbatical, came back, and started publishing shit like "Lipton, B. H. 2001 Insight into Cellular Consciousness. Bridges (ISSEEEM Org.) 12(1):5-9"

Lipton is a quack ha? I guess anyone that tries to help people is a quack in your opinion. Sometimes people don't want to go with the typical brainwashing of modern medical science.

You sould like the typical Medical student ready to be or in the process of being brainwashed. Sometimes books and science can't account for things chief. I'm not trying to argue with you, you have some valid points, but when it comes down to it, doctors are no better than butchers. They give you fucking poison to get rid of cancer. There are other options and people have created miracles. Why is this not common place? I don't know, supression of information? Look up Dr. Gerson or Joanna Budwig. There's lots of options out there for cancer other than the drano. Of course there's going to be more stats on the drano (chemo) because more people go that route.

Here is Anita's story for anybody who has faith in anything other than the physical and the "experts" and "scientists" and "guessers" state of beliefs.

I speak with her regularly via email as she's on a forum I'm on, and she is a fascinating woman.

:: Anita Moorjani :: NDERF Original Dialogue English

[Crucified]

you can't get a cut on your hand and say "there is no cut on my hand" and look down and it's gone. It's the same with cancer. Having a good outlook on life helps a lot but if you have fluid rushing into your chest cavity from the cancer you've got, no amount of "i'm fine" thinking is going to stop you from not breathing due to the pressure it's putting on your lungs.

While i'm generally against going to the doctor for medication(i also have brutal anxiety and agoraphobia), sometimes they really do know better than people on the street. chemo is better than nothing, it's widely accepted that it won't fix everything all the time which is why people are still looking for a definitive cure.

My dads cancer came on so quick that he was walking around like a normal human being and one day he drives to calgary to visit me and couldn't walk down the driveway without huffing and puffing because he couldn't breath.

Long story short, not all doctors are crooks and most of them just want to see people get healthy. I've had the same family doctor that delivered me. The man is a bloody saint. He wouldn't have pumped my dad full of drugs till he died if he could have just said "no, don't worry you're fine, it'll be gone it 3 days"

Originally Posted by unconventional

Lipton is a quack ha? I guess anyone that tries to help people is a quack in your opinion. Sometimes people don't want to go with the typical brainwashing of modern medical science.

You sould like the typical Medical student ready to be or in the process of being brainwashed. Sometimes books and science can't account for things chief. I'm not trying to argue with you, you have some valid points, but when it comes down to it, doctors are no better than butchers. They give you fucking poison to get rid of cancer. There are other options and people have created miracles. Why is this not common place? I don't know, supression of information? Look up Dr. Gerson or Joanna Budwig. There's lots of options out there for cancer other than the drano. Of course there's going to be more stats on the drano (chemo) because more people go that route.

Here is Anita's story for anybody who has faith in anything other than the physical and the "experts" and "scientists" and "guessers" state of beliefs.

I speak with her regularly via email as she's on a forum I'm on, and she is a fascinating woman.

:: Anita Moorjani :: NDERF Original Dialogue English

[HighGain510]

On the pill debate, I actually have to take immuno-suppressant medication for my Crohn's Disease. I was extremely sick before they put me on them (I went from 155lbs to 130lbs during the first flare-up before I went into the hospital after I was rendered unconscious due to 24 hours of constant vomiting) and ever since then I've gained a bit of weight that is really hard to get rid of, but guess what? My stomach isn't constantly hurting and I'm able to keep myself from throwing up after every meal. I'd put that in the positive category.

I was curious a while back whether or not I really needed to be on the meds or not and decided to self-medicate (or rather, cease taking my medication) and see where it went. I got 3 weeks into it before I had a massive flare-up that put me into the hospital for a week and on IVs of potassium (which burns like a motherfucker if you've never had to take that through a needle, seriously it literally feels like someone lit your arm on fire and you can't put it out! ) to get healthy enough to leave. I know for depression and stuff a lot of people don't believe in taking pills (and I'm one of them) but for some diseases it is essential to help keep a flare-up under control and I'm living proof of that. No more hospital time for me... I've been hospital-free for like 4-5 years now and hoping to keep it that way.

[budda]

fact of the matter is, a positive attitude helps a lot with most day-to-day things.

if you want a band kevin, go make one.

[Holy Katana]

Is it normal that I have no problem getting boners, and never have, despite being on SSRIs for the majority of my life?

[Seven]

IMO, alot of this thread is utter shite, this miracle shit needs to be taken realistically.

In my experience (unfortunately I have loads) with people close to me having cancer treatment is a big plus and help, and of course a positive outlook helps too (eg going for a run instead of staying at home and dwelling on it). But, until we find a definitive cure, I fully back chemo and radio therapy in every way. Yes, i'm not denying it makes you ill, but it happens for a reason, and in my experience, even if the end result was the vicitm passing on, it helped prolong life and fight the cancer, which is clearly better than not doing anything.

Originally Posted by HighGain510

On the pill debate, I actually have to take immuno-suppressant medication for my Crohn's Disease. I was extremely sick before they put me on them (I went from 155lbs to 130lbs during the first flare-up before I went into the hospital after I was rendered unconscious due to 24 hours of constant vomiting) and ever since then I've gained a bit of weight that is really hard to get rid of, but guess what? My stomach isn't constantly hurting and I'm able to keep myself from throwing up after every meal. I'd put that in the positive category.

I was curious a while back whether or not I really needed to be on the meds or not and decided to self-medicate (or rather, cease taking my medication) and see where it went. I got 3 weeks into it before I had a massive flare-up that put me into the hospital for a week and on IVs of potassium (which burns like a motherfucker if you've never had to take that through a needle, seriously it literally feels like someone lit your arm on fire and you can't put it out! ) to get healthy enough to leave. I know for depression and stuff a lot of people don't believe in taking pills (and I'm one of them) but for some diseases it is essential to help keep a flare-up under control and I'm living proof of that. No more hospital time for me... I've been hospital-free for like 4-5 years now and hoping to keep it that way.

I hear ya, dude.

This is what I was hospitalised for in Febuary, or something very similar. Originally it was thought to be appendicitis, then chrones (due to family history), but I still havn't been diagnosed.

I was ill enough to warrant a stay in a surgical ward for seven days, a ward which you are generally kicked out of the fastest and managed to be 'nearly' rushed to surgery twice, initially for the appendicitis which never existed, and secondly for an allergic reaction. Much like you Matt, I had the throwing up thing for about 13 hours, 4 hours of which was spent half on the bed half on the floor, because for about 15 times in those four hours if I just so much as pushed myself up against my bed cusion, I would blow chunks. Turns out I was recovering, and throwing up and the shits had nothing to do at all with my first problem. I was unlucky enough to catch a hospital virus at my stay. I was also nil by mouth for what felt like fucking forever, and managed to lose a stone in a week and a half.

But, the hospital was fucking fantastic, and bottom line is, I don't know what I would have done without prescribed pills and the raspberry ice cream after lunch.

I firmly believe drugs and pills are good things once the person in question is passed a certain level of illness. IMO i'd say after being hospitalized, or a bad viral problem. This means then, and I am, firmly against pills for colds, flus, depression, the shits or anything like that. What I suppose i'm trying to say is, if you can help it, NEVER put anything in your body which isn't supposed to be there, just makes for further fuck-ups longer down the road.

As a result of my surgeon and doctors inability to diagnose me (although not their fault, I had every scan/test going in which they could only discover inflammation from my stomach, all the way to the bottom of my digestive system) I am now suffering from depression, sleep problems and massive paranoia (because of both fear and anxiety) and I am no where near back to normal physically. IMO your right when you talk about a vicious circle Kevin, I was in one for the longest time. I would worry if anything more serious was wrong because I wasnt getting better, I then produced more stomach acid due to the worrying which in turn, as you can imagine, completely devoured my inflamed digestive system = big pain = more morphine please. This has been going on since a couple of weeks ago until I finally realised there is nothing wrong and nothing is going to happen, and if it does, it gets sorted.

This leaves me at the moment with something more related to your situation I guess. My fear and anxiety of something alot more serious happening to me physically has made me completely paranoid about everything you could imagine. I have been playing guitar for 5 years and it's the only activity in life that I really really love, and I have considered quitting guitar and pondering if I ever liked it in the first place the last couple of weeks, I won't though, because I know it's the paranoia. Another example is me reading about Chuck Schuldiner on Wikipedia, this may sound stupid to some readers but this is the mindset i'm in at the moment. I had neck ache (clearly just stress, and I knew this) a couple of days ago and after reading Chuck had this and then was diagnosed, BAM in my mind/paranoia I had it, I didn't ponder it, I HAD IT, in my mind of course. Same goes with the statistics on heart disease I saw on the news, I have that too apparently. I could write a list of things I thought I have had over the last months, but it would go on forever. Paranoia sucks because it's causing the depression, another vicious circle then for me for the time being. This feels like it slowly is getting better though.

Whenever I think about these things I automatically remind myself that I'm getting better and get into a positive mindset, this won't beat me, I won't let it happen.

I've had a mild nervous breakdown because of it and also countless panic attacks, one of which I had today, which stopped me from doing anything because I was dizzy and was shaking so much.

What I've done has helped me a great deal. I have a routine in life at the minute which I stick to, no matter what. I only do things I enjoy where possible, and I eat healthily and excercise alot, and I listen to music and play guitar as much as I can. For example, Megadeth's 'In My Darkest Hour' is one of the songs that makes me forget about everything and sends shivers up and down my spine with happiness and excitment, I find it helps alot.

A philosophy of mine is:

'A healthy body makes a healthy mind'

Originally Posted by unconventional

There are other options and people have created miracles. Why is this not common place? I don't know, supression of information? Look up Dr. Gerson or Joanna Budwig. There's lots of options out there for cancer other than the drano. Of course there's going to be more stats on the drano (chemo) because more people go that route.

People have created mircales. Unfortunately, people in this context means about 5 in a million.

It isn't common place because it hardly ever happens, and it isn't an option for many people with cancer. I know I'd rather have the treatment along with a postive mindset than just 'I havn't got cancer' and let it do me in.