[Durero]

Originally Posted by gojira

yes - but a MAJOR part of the steinberger design - is not having the string bend around anything at all - and of course a standardised and fast way of restringing - the unfortunate downside - as floyd rose is now discovering is that string have to be made for each design - it's not exactly cost effective or practical.

if you are using a zero fret - then it would perhaps be much more effective to have a locking nut type of thing going on in the headpiece - like abm use on their systems - however it's still not a pure - pull on both ends system is it....

I have been ripping my hair out trying to come up with a way around this for a guitar dpm is building me - and it's unfortunately come down to a level of compromise - however its a lot simpler considering my design isn't a trem - it is fanned fretted though.

Hey Gojira - my design is straight-pull just like a Steinberger. I'm using LSR gearless tuners http://members.aol.com/intertunei/LSR.tuners/
just stick 7 of these at the bridge-end of your guitar and you have a headless, gearless design.
Or if you prefer, use gearless tuners designed by Ned Steinberger himself: http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=392
Love to see some pics of your design! What scales are you using for the low & high strings of your fan?

Originally Posted by Shannon

Put it this way, Leo....
If you're interested in building a 7-string 25.5" Steinberger style clone, we SERIOUSLY need to talk.

That pretty much depends on what you want in a bridge design. As I say I'm working on a 7-string Trans-Trem design. A decent, headless, non-transposing version is also in the works. But if a fixed bridge will do then that's a project we could start right away. Let me know

[jacksonplayer]

Originally Posted by Shannon

^ www.juststrings.com

When I had the Steinie, I was tuning in Standard Bb with 13-56 purchased from there.

Wow, I didn't know you could get those. I haven't had a Steinberger since 1991, and back then you could only get strings by Steinberger or LaBella, and pretty much just in the standard 9, 10, and maybe 11 gauges.

Originally Posted by Durero

The real bugger is getting the bar-locking and transposing features working

From what I recall, the transposing function on the Steinberger only worked properly if you used the specially calibrated (and very expensive) TransTrem strings. I haven't owned one in 15 years, so my recall might be a bit off.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Shannon

Well, the R-trem is all contained in one housing.

Understood, but I meant the mechanics of movement, not the mechanism that provides tension to counteract the springs. It says the R is a fulcrum design, while I know the S and T to be cam designs.

So, I guess one could say the R is a blend of Floyd mechanics and Kahler compartamentalization, while the S and T are much more Kahler like.

Originally Posted by Durero

I've solved that problem already in my current headless 7-string. The bridge has built-in LSR locking tuners instead of Steinberger style micrometer tuners. This way the ball-ends thread through the nut-end and the bridge accepts the ball-less ends. So regular strings are required instead of double-ball.

Smart move.

So, I guess the strings go through the bridge, and then continue on to the tuners.

The real bugger is getting the bar-locking and transposing features working

This is just gravy compared to what I'm looking for. I always prefered the feel of the cam designs (Kahler, S, and T trems) to the fulcrum designs (Floyd, Wilkinson, R trems).

[Durero]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

From what I recall, the transposing function on the Steinberger only worked properly if you used the specially calibrated (and very expensive) TransTrem strings. I haven't owned one in 15 years, so my recall might be a bit off.

The calibrated strings are very convenient because they consistently center the (bridge-side) ball-ends over the fulcrum, or pivot point, of the trem. Thus, once you have the transposing function adjusted properly, you can change to another set of calibrated strings (of the same gage) and not have to do any re-adjustment. But non-calibrated strings can work just as well - you just have to check each time you change strings in case some fine-tuning of the transposition is needed.
I think the main problem with the trans-trem is that it is difficult to understand how the transposing function works and how to adjust it properly. Each micrometer tuner has a height adjustment at the ball-end jaw. This adjusts how fast each string changes pitch when you move the bar. Higher settings cause faster pitch change and lower = slower.

Originally Posted by noodles

So, I guess the strings go through the bridge, and then continue on to the tuners.

Yup, exactly.

Originally Posted by noodles

I always prefered the feel of the cam designs (Kahler, S, and T trems) to the fulcrum designs (Floyd, Wilkinson, R trems).

I absolutely agree the cam-type trems have a very smooth feel, light action, and big range of movement in both directions (sharp & flat. In fact I remember breaking a few high E strings on my first electric guitar when I would be rockin' out and pulling up too hard on the Kahler. I wasn't using the special reinforced strings that were available at the time.)

I hope folks around here can keep the pressure on Kahler to make a 7-string model. I've sent them a couple of emails. It'd be nice to have an alternative to Floyd-style and the Kahlers with their individual roller saddles could easily be adapted to fanned-fret designs.

[gojira]

It looks like the strings are bending around the tuner at the point of contact in your pictures - I am familiar with lsr tuners - and as i understand it - the do bend the string at greater than 45 degreess. -

dont touch steinbergers gearless tuners - horrible design.

fanning is 27 - 25

I'll be posting more than design pics in a few months hopefully

Originally Posted by Durero

Hey Gojira - my design is straight-pull just like a Steinberger. I'm using LSR gearless tuners http://members.aol.com/intertunei/LSR.tuners/
just stick 7 of these at the bridge-end of your guitar and you have a headless, gearless design.
Or if you prefer, use gearless tuners designed by Ned Steinberger himself: http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=392
Love to see some pics of your design! What scales are you using for the low & high strings of your fan?


That pretty much depends on what you want in a bridge design. As I say I'm working on a 7-string Trans-Trem design. A decent, headless, non-transposing version is also in the works. But if a fixed bridge will do then that's a project we could start right away. Let me know

[Durero]

Originally Posted by gojira

It looks like the strings are bending around the tuner at the point of contact in your pictures - I am familiar with lsr tuners - and as i understand it - the do bend the string at greater than 45 degreess. -

those pictures show the LSR's mounted at the traditional angles on a strat-style headstock. You can choose to mount them at any angle you like - dead straight if you wish - and straight is particularly sensible for headless designs when you're using them at the bridge. Internally the LSR's clamp the strings in a similar manner to how strings are clamped in a Floyd system. This is very secure - I've been using them for about 10 years on 3 different guitars and I've never had a string break at the tuner. When I had my Trans-Trem the high E strings would sometimes break at the bridge ball-ends when I pulled the bar all the way up. The bending of the strings around the ball-ends seemed to weaken them. At any rate I'm not particularly trying to promote LSR's - I think we should all use whatever's best for our designs - but I have had very positive experiences with them so far and I'd like to share that info. I think the Trans-Trem is the most brilliant trem design ever - but I think I can eliminate string breakage at the bridge by using the LSR's.

Originally Posted by gojira

dont touch steinbergers gearless tuners - horrible design.

I've been interested in them for a long time but so far haven't found the right situation to try them out. My main concern with their design is the way the string angles sharply out of the tuner on its way over the nut. If you've ever tried them I'd really appreciate hearing about your experiences - especially any negative issues with them. Might save me from trying them and not liking them.

Originally Posted by gojira

fanning is 27 - 25

I'll be posting more than design pics in a few months hopefully

Sounds like a really nice, very playable fanning which should get you a really clear tone out of the lowest string. Looking forward to seeing (& hearing) more when your baby's done!

cheers!

[gojira]

Originally Posted by Durero

those pictures show the LSR's mounted at the traditional angles on a strat-style headstock. You can choose to mount them at any angle you like - dead straight if you wish - and straight is particularly sensible for headless designs when you're using them at the bridge. Internally the LSR's clamp the strings in a similar manner to how strings are clamped in a Floyd system. This is very secure - I've been using them for about 10 years on 3 different guitars and I've never had a string break at the tuner. When I had my Trans-Trem the high E strings would sometimes break at the bridge ball-ends when I pulled the bar all the way up. The bending of the strings around the ball-ends seemed to weaken them. At any rate I'm not particularly trying to promote LSR's - I think we should all use whatever's best for our designs - but I have had very positive experiences with them so far and I'd like to share that info. I think the Trans-Trem is the most brilliant trem design ever - but I think I can eliminate string breakage at the bridge by using the LSR's.


I've been interested in them for a long time but so far haven't found the right situation to try them out. My main concern with their design is the way the string angles sharply out of the tuner on its way over the nut. If you've ever tried them I'd really appreciate hearing about your experiences - especially any negative issues with them. Might save me from trying them and not liking them.


Sounds like a really nice, very playable fanning which should get you a really clear tone out of the lowest string. Looking forward to seeing (& hearing) more when your baby's done!

cheers!

just for curiosities sake - could you perhaps pull apart an lsr or show me exactly how they work - I always thought the string was bent at some point in the mechanism? - even a diagram would be great if you have the time.

regarding the steinberger gearless - the very sharp string incline is exactly what makes the design so poor in my opinion - however floyds seem to work with it so......

To be honest - I'm not really interested in trems anymore - so the headless design only goes so far on my next guitar - I will say this though - it's very compact and very tidy in the conceptual stages - i think the headless systems that are particularily clever are those that cause the string to be pulled straight and never bent - playing aside - as this causes a relatively even amount of stress across the string compared to a standard design.

have you ever thought about taking the basic concept of an lsr tuner and perhaps making it more compact and streamlined in it's integration into your trem idea?

[Jerich]

dam Shannon i never pegged you as to be a stein lover ...but that's killer..and green too.man that pushing it ....but hey stein fix the fact that we are a headstock obsessed Board of maggots ...heheheh!!!

[dysfctn]

Damn you people! I want one now - been checking the 'bay all week!!!
Anyone in Australia have one? Where did you get it? Anyone know who brings them in to Aussieland?

[Roundhouse_Kick]

Originally Posted by dysfctn

Damn you people! I want one now - been checking the 'bay all week!!!
Anyone in Australia have one? Where did you get it? Anyone know who brings them in to Aussieland?

haha I'm in the same boat - been GAS'ing ever since I saw this thread - you bastards. I can get the trans blue GU7 fo £250. Looks like ill be selling some stuff then!