Any Kramer gurus?

itsallinmyh3ad · 06-10-2008, 01:58 AM

So I have the opportunity to get a Kramer Baretta Holy Grail (EVH Replica) from a friend. The guitar is in brand new condition, and plays very awesomely. It has a Duncan 59', ebony fretboard, maple neck and body, and original floyd rose. How much would this guitar be in the market? Here's some pics. Let me know what you think guys.

BigM555 · 06-10-2008, 09:49 AM

Nice.

Poke around the vintage Kramer site some one will know. I thought they had market prices posted but can't find them at the moment.

Baretta History

Edit: The 1985 re-issue is selling for around $1k so the real thing should be higher than that.

Vintage Kramer prices have been climbing since people have realized their not all those POS Music Yo things.

eaeolian · 06-10-2008, 10:10 AM

That's a newer one, right? (It certainly doesn't LOOK like an '80s Kramer, especially since it doesn't have a pickup ring.) It's at least a re-fin, and probably not a Kramer neck - I don't recall seeing any 25.5" bolt-on Kramers with ebony.

The mid-'80s Kramers are killer guitars - even the Focus line is very solid. In the late '90s, they were going for dirt cheap on eBay and in pawn shops, and they were a steal...

D-EJ915 · 06-10-2008, 10:40 AM

the reissue has rosewood, the only kramers with ebony I remember were the stagemasters

Zepp88 · 06-10-2008, 10:43 AM

What era headstock is that?

Clydefrog · 06-10-2008, 10:55 AM

I don't remember my '84 Kramer Baretta having a pickup angled THAT much -- yes it was angled but that seems way off. That could be because the guitar was black and it had an EMG85 (also black), so my perspective could have been slightly different.

I haven't gotten a good look at my Baretta in 5 years, it's in California while I'm in Indiana

One of the best playing guitars I've ever had.

BigM555 · 06-10-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaeolian

That's a newer one, right? (It certainly doesn't LOOK like an '80s Kramer, especially since it doesn't have a pickup ring.)

Good catch on the pickup ring! I thought it looked a little too new to be vintage but the ebony board threw me. I'm not an expert by any means but I couldn't imagine the newer ones having ebony.

itsallinmyh3ad · 06-10-2008, 10:37 PM

So basically this isn't a kramer? He bought it for $900 off ebay, and is giving me for a VERY cheap price.

Zepp88 · 06-10-2008, 10:50 PM

http://www.vintagekramer.com/musicyo1984.htm

That guitar is a real oddity, it's closest to the MusicYo 1984 Reissue, but it's still not one of those.

Concerto412 · 06-10-2008, 11:05 PM

If it plays well, and it's a good price, it should be worth it.
still, that is not a kramer. the neck could be a warmoth KWS style, or a 1984 reissue neck with an ebonized board, but there are umpteen companies that put out copies of the old kramer banana necks. it becomes a little hard to tell. maybe disassemble it before you buy, have a look for stamps or pencil markings on the neck pocket/heel, inside pickup cavities, etc...
bonus - it's not a focus/striker body. import 'baretta' style kramers have a jackplate on the side, USAs had barrel jacks. I've seen alot of focus 1000s with new necks being touted as american barettas. If your body is a replica, the builder was smart and went for the barrel, but whether through miscalculation or just personal preference, they absolutely changed a few details, like the aforementioned mounting ring and pickup angle, and the big tipoff - the volume control. unless this is baretta that has had the former hole filled, the pot moved, and been refinished, (possible, not incredibly likely) then that volume pot should be about 1" from the edge of the bridge pickup, above the line of the OFR studs.
All that in mind, there are a helluva lot of excellent quality replicas that have been built (notably those replicating the 'no bozos baretta'), as well as the horror story mock-kramers. Test and inspect it a bit, and if it plays/sounds like a bat out of hell, I still say it's worth it.

Edit - a little visual aid

itsallinmyh3ad · 06-10-2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto412

If it plays well, and it's a good price, it should be worth it.
still, that is not a kramer. the neck could be a warmoth KWS style, or a 1984 reissue neck with an ebonized board, but there are umpteen companies that put out copies of the old kramer banana necks. it becomes a little hard to tell. maybe disassemble it before you buy, have a look for stamps or pencil markings on the neck pocket/heel, inside pickup cavities, etc...
bonus - it's not a focus/striker body. import 'baretta' style kramers have a jackplate on the side, USAs had barrel jacks. I've seen alot of focus 1000s with new necks being touted as american barettas. If your body is a replica, the builder was smart and went for the barrel, but whether through miscalculation or just personal preference, they absolutely changed a few details, like the aforementioned mounting ring and pickup angle, and the big tipoff - the volume control. unless this is baretta that has had the former hole filled, the pot moved, and been refinished, (possible, not incredibly likely) then that volume pot should be about 1" from the edge of the bridge pickup, above the line of the OFR studs.
All that in mind, there are a helluva lot of excellent quality replicas that have been built (notably those replicating the 'no bozos baretta'), as well as the horror story mock-kramers. Test and inspect it a bit, and if it plays/sounds like a bat out of hell, I still say it's worth it.

Edit - a little visual aid

Well..the owner told me now that it's a "No Bozos" Replica. Still, it doesn't have the pickup rings. He paid $900, and sells it to me for $450 because he needs the cash. The guitar is brand new, and it plays good, but I still haven't heard it plugged in.

Zepp88 · 06-10-2008, 11:42 PM

Play it, if it plays awesome and sounds awesome, buy the damned thing!

Se7enMeister · 06-10-2008, 11:46 PM

get it and paint it EVH stripes

Zepp88 · 06-10-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Se7enMeister

get it and paint it EVH stripes

That would actually be kinda lame IMO, there's way too many EVH copys...

itsallinmyh3ad · 06-11-2008, 12:00 AM

I've just been informed that the guitar is a J-Frog. How much would this go for in the market, if I decide to sell it someday?

Concerto412 · 06-11-2008, 01:54 AM

if it IS a J frog, JUMP ON IT! J Frog is the moniker adopted by the man who built George Lynch's Skull N Bones guitar (aka 'Mom', check out velocity's avatar). I think the J frog Baretta substitute is called the Glock 22, and it should play every bit as well as any kramer.
But I would absolutely still recommend a little dismantling to look for some solid identification before you buy, offer to replace the strings if your friend is unsure about it.
If you found a real j frog for 450$, congrats and i hate you.

Edit - found the pricing page on ed romans site, and while hes usually full of shit i would say that his list prices are more or less right, maybe a little high.
Guitars - J Frog Guitars - J Frog Guitars Price List - Ed Roman Guitars

darren · 06-11-2008, 08:52 AM

ì´ë².ì´ì‡¼í•‘ - Kramer Baretta Custom Holy Grail No Bozos Replica 1984 - EBAYSHOPPING

If it's meant to be a "no bozos" replica, the pickup does seem a little more angled than the production Barettas. (See the pics in the link above.)

The direct-mount pickup is closer to what EVH actually did with his Frankenstrat.

Nice guitar. If it is what your friend says it is, it's a great deal. Even if it isn't, if it's a good guitar for $400, why not?

playstopause · 06-11-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darren

Nice guitar. If it is what your friend says it is, it's a great deal. Even if it isn't, if it's a good guitar for $400, why not?

At that price, not much to loose.

/thread.

eaeolian · 06-11-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto412

if it IS a J frog, JUMP ON IT! J Frog is the moniker adopted by the man who built George Lynch's Skull N Bones guitar (aka 'Mom', check out velocity's avatar). I think the J frog Baretta substitute is called the Glock 22, and it should play every bit as well as any kramer.
But I would absolutely still recommend a little dismantling to look for some solid identification before you buy, offer to replace the strings if your friend is unsure about it.
If you found a real j frog for 450$, congrats and i hate you.

Edit - found the pricing page on ed romans site, and while hes usually full of shit i would say that his list prices are more or less right, maybe a little high.
Guitars - J Frog Guitars - J Frog Guitars Price List - Ed Roman Guitars

It's probably an "Ed Roman" J Frog, anyway - Ed was building them and just licensed the name. At the price, his stuff is usually good enough quality that it's probably worth it...

itsallinmyh3ad · 06-11-2008, 05:56 PM

I'm gonna give the guitar a good tryout in about an hour. Who knows...Maybe today there will be a NGD.

Crucified · 06-11-2008, 06:19 PM

anyone know why the pickups were angled that way?

Concerto412 · 06-11-2008, 06:23 PM

some people say eddie was sloppy with the chisel (baretta adopted from frankenstrat)
it seems more likely that it was to get non f-spaced humbuckers to line up with the string spacing.

itsallinmyh3ad · 06-11-2008, 11:45 PM

I still haven't been able to play it.

Lucky Seven · 06-12-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto412

it seems more likely that it was to get non f-spaced humbuckers to line up with the string spacing.

That's what I always thought.

06-10-2008, 01:58 AM	#1
itsallinmyh3ad ...Made me do it. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,068 Thanked: 54	Any Kramer gurus? So I have the opportunity to get a Kramer Baretta Holy Grail (EVH Replica) from a friend. The guitar is in brand new condition, and plays very awesomely. It has a Duncan 59', ebony fretboard, maple neck and body, and original floyd rose. How much would this guitar be in the market? Here's some pics. Let me know what you think guys.

06-10-2008, 10:10 AM	#3
eaeolian The Church of SEVEN • Super Moderator • Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Woodbridge, VA Posts: 8,656 Thanked: 34	That's a newer one, right? (It certainly doesn't LOOK like an '80s Kramer, especially since it doesn't have a pickup ring.) It's at least a re-fin, and probably not a Kramer neck - I don't recall seeing any 25.5" bolt-on Kramers with ebony. The mid-'80s Kramers are killer guitars - even the Focus line is very solid. In the late '90s, they were going for dirt cheap on eBay and in pawn shops, and they were a steal... __________________ Division - American metal that doesn't suck. Much. Even on MySpace, and Soundclick, too.

06-10-2008, 10:40 AM	#4
D-EJ915 <3's Tsukasa Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 18,637 Thanked: 218	the reissue has rosewood, the only kramers with ebony I remember were the stagemasters __________________ əBCAir

06-10-2008, 10:43 AM	#5
Zepp88 Arktanian Diplomat Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: A Technological Deadzone Posts: 10,362 Thanked: 92	What era headstock is that? __________________ http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off...-org-chat.html Withersoul - Monolithic Epic Doom Metal M.W. Tremblay - Needs readers!

06-10-2008, 10:50 PM	#9
Zepp88 Arktanian Diplomat Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: A Technological Deadzone Posts: 10,362 Thanked: 92	http://www.vintagekramer.com/musicyo1984.htm That guitar is a real oddity, it's closest to the MusicYo 1984 Reissue, but it's still not one of those. __________________ http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off...-org-chat.html Withersoul - Monolithic Epic Doom Metal M.W. Tremblay - Needs readers!

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06-10-2008, 09:49 AM	#2
BigM555 I SS.org Salute You! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,640 Thanked: 26	Nice. Poke around the vintage Kramer site some one will know. I thought they had market prices posted but can't find them at the moment. Baretta History Edit: The 1985 re-issue is selling for around $1k so the real thing should be higher than that. Vintage Kramer prices have been climbing since people have realized their not all those POS Music Yo things.

06-10-2008, 10:55 AM	#6
Clydefrog ss.org Regular Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Manchester, IN Posts: 1,132 Thanked: 44 $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Clydefrog is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$	I don't remember my '84 Kramer Baretta having a pickup angled THAT much -- yes it was angled but that seems way off. That could be because the guitar was black and it had an EMG85 (also black), so my perspective could have been slightly different. I haven't gotten a good look at my Baretta in 5 years, it's in California while I'm in Indiana One of the best playing guitars I've ever had.

06-10-2008, 10:37 PM	#8
itsallinmyh3ad ...Made me do it. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,068 Thanked: 54	So basically this isn't a kramer? He bought it for $900 off ebay, and is giving me for a VERY cheap price.

06-10-2008, 11:05 PM	#10
Concerto412 Aeternae Sonus Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, ON; CAN Posts: 354 Thanked: 2	If it plays well, and it's a good price, it should be worth it. still, that is not a kramer. the neck could be a warmoth KWS style, or a 1984 reissue neck with an ebonized board, but there are umpteen companies that put out copies of the old kramer banana necks. it becomes a little hard to tell. maybe disassemble it before you buy, have a look for stamps or pencil markings on the neck pocket/heel, inside pickup cavities, etc... bonus - it's not a focus/striker body. import 'baretta' style kramers have a jackplate on the side, USAs had barrel jacks. I've seen alot of focus 1000s with new necks being touted as american barettas. If your body is a replica, the builder was smart and went for the barrel, but whether through miscalculation or just personal preference, they absolutely changed a few details, like the aforementioned mounting ring and pickup angle, and the big tipoff - the volume control. unless this is baretta that has had the former hole filled, the pot moved, and been refinished, (possible, not incredibly likely) then that volume pot should be about 1" from the edge of the bridge pickup, above the line of the OFR studs. All that in mind, there are a helluva lot of excellent quality replicas that have been built (notably those replicating the 'no bozos baretta'), as well as the horror story mock-kramers. Test and inspect it a bit, and if it plays/sounds like a bat out of hell, I still say it's worth it. Edit - a little visual aid

06-10-2008, 11:42 PM	#12
Zepp88 Arktanian Diplomat Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: A Technological Deadzone Posts: 10,362 Thanked: 92	Play it, if it plays awesome and sounds awesome, buy the damned thing! __________________ http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off...-org-chat.html Withersoul - Monolithic Epic Doom Metal M.W. Tremblay - Needs readers!

06-10-2008, 11:46 PM	#13
Se7enMeister Likes Basswood Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the other side of No Where Posts: 691 Thanked: 54	get it and paint it EVH stripes __________________ "There's a party in Zepp's mouth and everyones coming" Origanally posted by Variant - Pulled from the river Styx, the mighty black oar of doom in hand! I certainly would not call this particular guitar an "axe" more like a club. Noodles' KxK would run through an emo, spilling his insides for a quick death, this blunt mace would bludgeon the unfortunate effeminate soul, breaking bones, and causing internal bleeding to lead only to a slow, painful death

06-11-2008, 12:00 AM	#15
itsallinmyh3ad ...Made me do it. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,068 Thanked: 54	I've just been informed that the guitar is a J-Frog. How much would this go for in the market, if I decide to sell it someday?

06-11-2008, 01:54 AM	#16
Concerto412 Aeternae Sonus Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, ON; CAN Posts: 354 Thanked: 2	if it IS a J frog, JUMP ON IT! J Frog is the moniker adopted by the man who built George Lynch's Skull N Bones guitar (aka 'Mom', check out velocity's avatar). I think the J frog Baretta substitute is called the Glock 22, and it should play every bit as well as any kramer. But I would absolutely still recommend a little dismantling to look for some solid identification before you buy, offer to replace the strings if your friend is unsure about it. If you found a real j frog for 450$, congrats and i hate you. Edit - found the pricing page on ed romans site, and while hes usually full of shit i would say that his list prices are more or less right, maybe a little high. Guitars - J Frog Guitars - J Frog Guitars Price List - Ed Roman Guitars

06-11-2008, 08:52 AM	#17
darren Decibel Guitars Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada Posts: 10,178 Thanked: 57	ì´ë².ì´ì‡¼í•‘ - Kramer Baretta Custom Holy Grail No Bozos Replica 1984 - EBAYSHOPPING If it's meant to be a "no bozos" replica, the pickup does seem a little more angled than the production Barettas. (See the pics in the link above.) The direct-mount pickup is closer to what EVH actually did with his Frankenstrat. Nice guitar. If it is what your friend says it is, it's a great deal. Even if it isn't, if it's a good guitar for $400, why not? __________________ http://decibelguitars.com http://twitter.com/decibelguitars

06-11-2008, 05:56 PM	#20
itsallinmyh3ad ...Made me do it. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,068 Thanked: 54	I'm gonna give the guitar a good tryout in about an hour. Who knows...Maybe today there will be a NGD.

06-11-2008, 06:19 PM	#21
Crucified Deathgrind Maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 1,828 Thanked: 57 $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Crucified is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$	anyone know why the pickups were angled that way? __________________ ------------------------ Don't talk shit about total.

06-11-2008, 06:23 PM	#22
Concerto412 Aeternae Sonus Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, ON; CAN Posts: 354 Thanked: 2	some people say eddie was sloppy with the chisel (baretta adopted from frankenstrat) it seems more likely that it was to get non f-spaced humbuckers to line up with the string spacing.

06-11-2008, 11:45 PM	#23
itsallinmyh3ad ...Made me do it. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,068 Thanked: 54	I still haven't been able to play it.

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Any Kramer gurus?