homepage   sevenstring guitars   sevenstring registry   photo gallery   subscription   spy 
Sevenstring.org - The Seven String Guitar Authority
Go Back   SevenString.org > Music Discussion > Standard Guitars
LIKE SS.org on Facebook FOLLOW SS.org on Twitter
  
Standard Guitars Six string, standard guitar discussion here.

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:08 AM   #1
ss.org Regular
 
zuhairreza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 5
Thanked: 0
zuhairreza is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
High e string produces echo/sitar-like noise on some frets, when others are in tune.

Hello sevenstring community!!!

Well, I am a new user and I have been playing guitar for 2 years by myself. Yesterday I changed strings on my Gibson Flying V, tuned up to standard E and went to check it out, only to realize that the high e (1st string) gives off an unwanted feedback, like a "sitar"/echo noise, when I play several middle frets together (frets 4-8). This happens when I play several notes, not one only.

I checked my tuning, intonation, truss rod, action, pickup height, etc, etc, anything that came to mind. Those seemed fine. However, later that day I noticed that the high e plays perfectly, no echo/sitar like noise or any type of unusual feedback, when the other five are not in tune. Whenever I tune up strings 6 through 2, the high e sounds like that.

What's happening here and how can I fix it?!!
zuhairreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Seven String

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on SevenString.org
   
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:12 AM   #2
SS.org Regular
 
atticmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Green
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6
atticmike is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
huh ? Still sounds like a mechanical issue. Did you try to adjust the saddle of the highest string?
atticmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:13 AM   #3
Likes trem wankery.
Super Moderator
 
MaxOfMetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 23,276
Thanked: 103
MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Sounds like a neck bow and/or fret level issue. Check your guitar's neck relief and then check to see if any frets are higher than others.

Need help with setting up a trem?
Need info on your Ibby?
Live in Milwaukee? Please feel free to message me.

New Rules. Read Them.
MaxOfMetal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:17 AM   #4
ss.org Regular
 
zuhairreza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 5
Thanked: 0
zuhairreza is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yeah I adjusted the saddle of all the strings when I was fixing the intonation, and I am pretty sure the fret levels are fine. I fixed the truss rod myself recently. The neck has a slight relief, which is what I usually prefer. Anyway, I went both ways, tightened and loosened it just to see if that would help. No luck. The strings are 10-46 Di Addarios. I think I used 9s before, but I am not sure.

Is this an "overtone" or a "sympathetic vibration" problem? I am not familiar with those terms and recently saw them during my constant searches through Google...

One person at Ultimate-Guitar.com said this when I mentioned that it happens only when the other five strings are in tune, "The E string is tensioned at the exact resonant frequency of the guitar when the strings are in tune".

Any ideas?
zuhairreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:17 AM   #5
SS.org Regular
 
atticmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Green
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6
atticmike is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
yeah but usually, if it was a neck bow, the highest string would be affected least of all...
atticmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:20 AM   #6
SS.org Regular
 
in-pursuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rosewood, QLD, Australia
Posts: 1,148
Thanked: 21
in-pursuit is just really nicein-pursuit is just really nice
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
does your guitar have a trem? if so, try sliding a thin piece of fabric into the coil of the springs of your trem, they may be vibrating sympathetically to the notes of your strings.
in-pursuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:22 AM   #7
ss.org Regular
 
zuhairreza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 5
Thanked: 0
zuhairreza is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by in-pursuit View Post
does your guitar have a trem? if so, try sliding a thin piece of fabric into the coil of the springs of your trem, they may be vibrating sympathetically to the notes of your strings.
No tremolo. =)

http://www.12fret.com/wordpress/wp-c...005(C)_top.jpg
zuhairreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:27 AM   #8
Likes trem wankery.
Super Moderator
 
MaxOfMetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 23,276
Thanked: 103
MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.MaxOfMetal has an entire closet full of viking hats.
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
If the relief is dead straight, with no back or forward bow, then I'd highly suggest using a straight edge and/or fret rocking underneath where the 1st string sits across the fretboard and see if the frets are raised at all. A very small variance such as 1/2 mm can cause buzzing on guitars with low action and no relief, as the clearance over the next fret is incredibly small, and strings vibrate in an elliptical pattern when struck.

It could be a resonance issue, but those don't just magically appear and disappear. Unless you're done something to the guitar to add a significant amount of mass, or remove a significant amount of mass, then the resonance of the guitar is the same as the day it was built. A quick test to rule out resonance is to attach a pair of heavy vice grips or a C-clamp to the headstock, this adds mass to the guitar. If the weird sound disappears or moves to another set of frets then it's a resonance issues.

Also, have you tried looking at your bridge saddle? Could there be a burr the string is vibrating against?

Need help with setting up a trem?
Need info on your Ibby?
Live in Milwaukee? Please feel free to message me.

New Rules. Read Them.
MaxOfMetal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:45 AM   #9
SS.org Regular
 
atticmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Green
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6
atticmike is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal View Post
If the relief is dead straight, with no back or forward bow, then I'd highly suggest using a straight edge and/or fret rocking underneath where the 1st string sits across the fretboard and see if the frets are raised at all. A very small variance such as 1/2 mm can cause buzzing on guitars with low action and no relief, as the clearance over the next fret is incredibly small, and strings vibrate in an elliptical pattern when struck.

It could be a resonance issue, but those don't just magically appear and disappear. Unless you're done something to the guitar to add a significant amount of mass, or remove a significant amount of mass, then the resonance of the guitar is the same as the day it was built. A quick test to rule out resonance is to attach a pair of heavy vice grips or a C-clamp to the headstock, this adds mass to the guitar. If the weird sound disappears or moves to another set of frets then it's a resonance issues.

Also, have you tried looking at your bridge saddle? Could there be a burr the string is vibrating against?
You're not dealing with trem or any other elaborate tuning / locking device and what MaxOfMetal just said covers mostly everything that'd fall under the issue's topic.

What if you put on a set of new strings or swap the highest one if you got single strings lurking around?

Try to cut down possible causes of disturbance in order to root out the issue by having a small set to select from.

If you don't find an answer here around, try and ask on gibson boards where the issue may seem more familiar.
atticmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:49 AM   #10
ss.org Regular
 
zuhairreza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 5
Thanked: 0
zuhairreza is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal View Post
If the relief is dead straight, with no back or forward bow, then I'd highly suggest using a straight edge and/or fret rocking underneath where the 1st string sits across the fretboard and see if the frets are raised at all. A very small variance such as 1/2 mm can cause buzzing on guitars with low action and no relief, as the clearance over the next fret is incredibly small, and strings vibrate in an elliptical pattern when struck.

It could be a resonance issue, but those don't just magically appear and disappear. Unless you're done something to the guitar to add a significant amount of mass, or remove a significant amount of mass, then the resonance of the guitar is the same as the day it was built. A quick test to rule out resonance is to attach a pair of heavy vice grips or a C-clamp to the headstock, this adds mass to the guitar. If the weird sound disappears or moves to another set of frets then it's a resonance issues.

Also, have you tried looking at your bridge saddle? Could there be a burr the string is vibrating against?

I just used my long ruler to check fret levels my friend. The fretboard is almost dead straight; there is very small relief, the thickness of a credit would fit through there. I put the ruler between the 1st string and the fretboard, and fret levels seem fine (I could see the relief). Anyway, it's not a buzzing issue. I know what buzzing sounds like. This is more like, imagine playing frets 5-7-8 on the high e, but after the 5th and 7th frets, the 8th can barely be heard; an echoic aftermath is present from the previous frets. Any notes I play after is "far-off" and lost in all the noise, and cannot be heard at all unless I pick really hard. It sounds like "double notes", as if I am playing 2 high e strings at the same time. The UG people called it a "sitar" noise.

You are right. Resonance issues don't just appear and disappear. I am sure the resonance is fine as well. I didn't add or remove any amount of mass from the guitar. Only yesterday the old strings on it sounded perfect. I don't see how resonance problems (and fret problems) can occur in one day, just like that.

I am going to check how I can fix it. Thanks a lot for the help and advice. =)
zuhairreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:51 AM   #11
ss.org Regular
 
zuhairreza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 5
Thanked: 0
zuhairreza is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by atticmike View Post
You're not dealing with trem or any other elaborate tuning / locking device and what MaxOfMetal just said covers mostly everything that'd fall under the issue's topic.

What if you put on a set of new strings or swap the highest one if you got single strings lurking around?

Exactly what I did, from an entirely new pack. It's the same thing.

This is almost magical!! I wonder what's wrong... =(

I will try to fix it somehow man. Thanks for the assistance a lot.
zuhairreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-09-2011, 08:01 AM   #12
SS.org Regular
 
atticmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Green
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6
atticmike is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuhairreza View Post
I just used my long ruler to check fret levels my friend. The fretboard is almost dead straight; there is very small relief, the thickness of a credit would fit through there. I put the ruler between the 1st string and the fretboard, and fret levels seem fine (I could see the relief). Anyway, it's not a buzzing issue. I know what buzzing sounds like. This is more like, imagine playing frets 5-7-8 on the high e, but after the 5th and 7th frets, the 8th can barely be heard; an echoic aftermath is present from the previous frets. Any notes I play after is "far-off" and lost in all the noise, and cannot be heard at all unless I pick really hard. It sounds like "double notes", as if I am playing 2 high e strings at the same time. The UG people called it a "sitar" noise.

You are right. Resonance issues don't just appear and disappear. I am sure the resonance is fine as well. I didn't add or remove any amount of mass from the guitar. Only yesterday the old strings on it sounded perfect. I don't see how resonance problems (and fret problems) can occur in one day, just like that.

I am going to check how I can fix it. Thanks a lot for the help and advice. =)
sounds like an action problem to me. I mean man, what else could it be?

A dwarf sitting in your now hollow body v and doing these weird noises ?^^

Anyhow, there is rubbing shoulders, quite sure :P
atticmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-11-2011, 12:30 PM   #13
Riffmiester General
 
BrianUV777BK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: My Own Universe
Posts: 394
Thanked: 6
BrianUV777BK is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuhairreza View Post
Hello sevenstring community!!!

Well, I am a new user and I have been playing guitar for 2 years by myself. Yesterday I changed strings on my Gibson Flying V, tuned up to standard E and went to check it out, only to realize that the high e (1st string) gives off an unwanted feedback, like a "sitar"/echo noise, when I play several middle frets together (frets 4-8). This happens when I play several notes, not one only.

I checked my tuning, intonation, truss rod, action, pickup height, etc, etc, anything that came to mind. Those seemed fine. However, later that day I noticed that the high e plays perfectly, no echo/sitar like noise or any type of unusual feedback, when the other five are not in tune. Whenever I tune up strings 6 through 2, the high e sounds like that.

What's happening here and how can I fix it?!!

Fix it? Screw it, go with it!

LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR BAD TONE

GIMME SHRED 'TILL I"M DEAD!!
BrianUV777BK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-14-2011, 12:58 AM   #14
My boo
 
brootalboo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 117
Thanked: 3
brootalboo will become famous soon enough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I actually have the same problem, and as soon as I read the thread title I knew exactly what you were talking about. In for answers.
brootalboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-14-2011, 01:27 PM   #15
ss.org Regular
 
ibbyfreak13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: las vegas nv
Posts: 298
Thanked: 9
ibbyfreak13 is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I recently had what sounds like the same thing on my rg7321. It was on the 4th string on the 13th fret and up, checked everything, but I overlooked something simple that I dismissed as not something that would cause, but when you check all it can be with no result go for what it couldn't be. In my case I raised the action just a hair and instantly no problem, rang out as 1 clear note, no more echo or warbble sound. Try that it might work, though on your v you don't have individual saddles like a fixed bridge, but on the high e you should be able to raise it a bit without affecting the too much
ibbyfreak13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-14-2011, 01:49 PM   #16
SS.org Regular
 
knuckle_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 636
Thanked: 2
knuckle_head is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Sitar-like sounds result from a string hitting a fret - there is nothing else that causes it.

Saddle adjustment first, but if it's still there get a true straight edge and adjust your fretboard flat to see if you've got high frets. A ruler isn't the right tool.

Choosing the path less traveled means more than occasionally you walk alone.
- author unknown
I make Knuckle Guitar Works basses
I make Circle K strings
knuckle_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Les Paul Forum | Marshall Amp Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

SS.org proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2004-2014, SevenString.org. All Rights Reserved.