homepage   sevenstring guitars   sevenstring registry   subscription   spy 
Sevenstring.org - The Seven String Guitar Authority
Go Back   SevenString.org > General Discussion > Politics & Current Events
LIKE SS.org on Facebook FOLLOW SS.org on Twitter
Politics & Current Events Discussion on political views, the war and world events here. Strictly moderated forum, so use your better judgement when posting.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2007, 02:05 AM   #1
Kevan
The Tremol-No Guy
 
Kevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,128
Thanked: 37
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
An Even More Inconvenient Truth

This showed up on one of the other forums I regularly visit. I thought some here would enjoy the read.

Quote:
Verified to be TRUE at Snopes.com.


LOOK OVER THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE FOLLOWING TWO HOUSES AND SEE IF YOU CAN TELL WHICH BELONGS TO AN ENVIRONMENTALIST.

HOUSE # 1:

A 20-room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house all heated by gas. In ONE MONTH ALONE this mansion consumes more energy than the average American household in an ENTIRE YEAR. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400.00 per month. In natural gas alone (which last time we checked was a fossil fuel), this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not in a northern or Midwestern "snow belt," either. It's in the South.

HOUSE # 2:

Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university, this house incorporates every "green" feature current home construction can provide. The house contains only 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on arid high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground. The water (usually 67 degrees F.) heats the house in winter and cools it in summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas, and it consumes 25% of the electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Flowers and shrubs native to the area blend the property into the surrounding rural landscape.

HOUSE # 1 (20 room energy guzzling mansion) is outside of Nashville, Tennessee. It is the abode of that renowned environmentalist (and filmmaker) Al Gore.

HOUSE # 2 (model eco-friendly house) is on a ranch near Crawford, Texas . Also known as "the Texas White House," it is the private residence of the President of the United States, George W. Bush.


So, boys and girls, can you say hypocrite? I knew you could.

"Thank YOU, Jim Day!"
Kevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 02:35 AM   #2
garcia3441
Tone Whore
 
garcia3441's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 6,169
Thanked: 88
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I see that whoever wrote that story didn't mention the fact that Gore tried to install solar panels when he bought the house but the zoning commission said no.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070320/gore_...nels.html?.v=1

As for the high energy bills, the house was built in the early 20th century.

"Im sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth. "
John Lennon
garcia3441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:13 AM   #3
eaeolian
The Church of SEVEN
Super Moderator
 
eaeolian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 13,368
Thanked: 60
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Yeah, it's true, up tot he point it goes to, but it's also presented with a lot of spin. Gore buys - and pays more for - "green" energy, and buys carbon offsets, like he suggests in public. There's a thread about it here somewhere.

Gore's not perfect, obviously, but this smear campaign demonstrates one of the big issues in general in the US right now - distract from the real issue (possible human causes of global warming) to play political games.

Division - American metal that doesn't suck. Much. Even on Facebook, and Soundclick might eventually be updated, too.
eaeolian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 06:36 AM   #4
Popsyche
Beer Sewer
 
Popsyche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 5,849
Thanked: 223
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaeolian View Post
Gore's not perfect, obviously, but this smear campaign demonstrates one of the big issues in general in the US right now - distract from the real issue (possible human causes of global warming) to play political games.
I, for one, am ....ing sick of the email stream I am inundated with bashing Hillary and other Democrats. There is no way to stop the slander, as the source remains anonymous. I believe NONE of it!

If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?



www.myspace.com/wfkoehleriii
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeo7bjr/index.html
Popsyche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 06:44 AM   #5
darren
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 13,117
Thanked: 78
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Gore is also undergoing a massive retrofit of his mansion.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 09:37 AM   #6
Drew
Fear the Polo!
 
Drew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 25,116
Thanked: 163
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23009

You're a few weeks behind the times, Kevan.

Gore is paying significantly more than your average american for electricity, true. He's also heating a house that is significantly larger than your average American's, and paying an upcharge of approximately 50% for "green" energy from renewable sources. And, as Darren pointed out, he's currently in the process of renovating his house, something that this story curiously forgets to mention.

Scopes calling it "true" is, well, suspect at best. It's "true," it's just spun to the point where it's barely recognizeable.

It's also obvious for what it is - an attempt to discredit the entire anti-global-warming movement by going after one of its' spokesmen.

"...and everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon."

Check out my debut album, Zero Mantra, on iTunes!
http://www.metalguitarist.org
Drew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 09:41 AM   #7
Metal Ken
Hates the Air
 
Metal Ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,010
Thanked: 82
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
John Edward's new house is supposed to be really efficent, too. He said on CNN a few weeks ago, that even though its a 102 room mansion, it only cost a few hundred dollars a month for an electric bill. Which is pretty cool.
Metal Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 09:45 AM   #8
Mastodon
Songs about My Cats
 
Mastodon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bizurke
Posts: 6,698
Thanked: 43
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yeah they mentioned this on the news a few weeks ago. Anyone with common sense can see that this is just a stupid smear campaign though.
Mastodon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 09:53 AM   #9
darren
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 13,117
Thanked: 78
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastodon View Post
Anyone with common sense can see that this is just a stupid smear campaign though.
You do realize that "anyone with common sense" is a very small and dwindling segment of the world's current population...
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 09:57 AM   #10
eaeolian
The Church of SEVEN
Super Moderator
 
eaeolian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 13,368
Thanked: 60
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
You do realize that "anyone with common sense" is a very small and dwindling segment of the world's current population...
....Because we're not teaching "common sense" anymore - we're teaching "believe what the TV tells you", but that's another thread...

Division - American metal that doesn't suck. Much. Even on Facebook, and Soundclick might eventually be updated, too.
eaeolian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 10:18 AM   #11
noodles
I'm your huckleberry
 
noodles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 18,503
Thanked: 305
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Let's pretend for a minute that Gore is burning coal in his back yard to power a mansion completely devoid off insulation. So. ....ing. What.

Are we going to completely ignore the problem, because one guy isn't as green as he ought to be? Let's just ignore all the evidence because one guy is a hypocrite. That's like a doctor telling you to eat right after your heart attack, and you ignore him because he had a hamburger for lunch. Give me a ....ing break.

Noodles
Division: American Metal without the suck.
kxksales@gmail.com
noodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:05 AM   #12
Kevan
The Tremol-No Guy
 
Kevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,128
Thanked: 37
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23009

You're a few weeks behind the times, Kevan.
I wasn't talking about the movie; just using it's title for my title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
Gore is paying significantly more than your average american for electricity, true. He's also heating a house that is significantly larger than your average American's, and paying an upcharge of approximately 50% for "green" energy from renewable sources. And, as Darren pointed out, he's currently in the process of renovating his house, something that this story curiously forgets to mention.
Or it was posted before the renovations began.
Also, he could have simply bought a different (more 'green') house in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
Scopes calling it "true" is, well, suspect at best. It's "true," it's just spun to the point where it's barely recognizeable.
The site is sNopes.
I would hardly call Snopes "suspect", in any regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
It's also obvious for what it is - an attempt to discredit the entire anti-global-warming movement by going after one of its' spokesmen.
Oh, I think they do a fine job all by themselves.
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/fl...ltas_house.jpg

"Thank YOU, Jim Day!"
Kevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:10 AM   #13
Drew
Fear the Polo!
 
Drew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 25,116
Thanked: 163
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan View Post
I wasn't talking about the movie; just using it's title for my title.
Jump to about page three or so of that thread, Kevan - this is posted and then pretty thoroughly rebuked.

"...and everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon."

Check out my debut album, Zero Mantra, on iTunes!
http://www.metalguitarist.org
Drew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:16 AM   #14
eaeolian
The Church of SEVEN
Super Moderator
 
eaeolian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 13,368
Thanked: 60
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan View Post
Oh, I think they do a fine job all by themselves.
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/fl...ltas_house.jpg
Kevan, Travolta is a *Scientologist*.

Division - American metal that doesn't suck. Much. Even on Facebook, and Soundclick might eventually be updated, too.
eaeolian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:21 AM   #15
Kevan
The Tremol-No Guy
 
Kevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,128
Thanked: 37
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
Jump to about page three or so of that thread, Kevan - this is posted and then pretty thoroughly rebuked.
I thought you were referring to the title of that thread (the movie). I didn't read the other thread. Sorry if this is a re-post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaeolian View Post
Kevan, Travolta is a *Scientologist*.
Yeah, but I skipped over that to get to the part where he's one of the more out-spoken eco-warriors.

"Thank YOU, Jim Day!"
Kevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:24 AM   #16
eaeolian
The Church of SEVEN
Super Moderator
 
eaeolian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 13,368
Thanked: 60
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan View Post
Yeah, but I skipped over that to get to the part where he's one of the more out-spoken eco-warriors.
Kevan, he's a *Scientologist*. He shouldn't be a spokesperson for ANYTHING.

Sorry if the are any L. Ron disciples here, but...

Division - American metal that doesn't suck. Much. Even on Facebook, and Soundclick might eventually be updated, too.
eaeolian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:26 AM   #17
Kevan
The Tremol-No Guy
 
Kevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,128
Thanked: 37
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaeolian View Post
Kevan, he's a *Scientologist*. He shouldn't be a spokesperson for ANYTHING.
Heh heh. Point.

"Thank YOU, Jim Day!"
Kevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:36 AM   #18
Drew
Fear the Polo!
 
Drew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 25,116
Thanked: 163
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
He's just a nutjob, so I've been ignoring him, Kevan.

On Snopes, technically, everything you present above is correct, which is the extent they're certifying it. However, let's drill down a little.


Quote:
A 20-room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house all heated by gas. 1.) In ONE MONTH ALONE this mansion consumes more energy than the average American household in an ENTIRE YEAR. 2.) The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400.00 per month. 3.) In natural gas alone (which last time we checked was a fossil fuel), this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. 4.) This house is not in a northern or Midwestern "snow belt," either. It's in the South.
1.) This is actually a slight stretch. My recollection is this statement was derrived on the original report from the fact that Gore's energy bill per month is about what your average American pays in an entire year. It seems pretty reasonable to decude he USES as much energy per month as most americans do a year, but remember, he's paying a 50% premium for "green" energy. It also fails to account for the fact that he's heating a house probably 5x larger based solely on number of rooms (probably even greater if you measured floor square footage or cubic interior space) than the average American, so that what we're seeing here is not a true apples-to-apples comparison. More telling would be energy use, by kilawatt, for a comparably-sized mansion with a pool, guest house, and pool house, or even better a comparison per square foot of floorspace per watt. Again, his energy bill IS monthly what most people pay a year, but that totally misses most of the big picture.

2.) See #1 - energy useage was being computed based on dollars spent, not actually energy.

3.) Again, this fails to account for the larger size of his house relative to the average american household, and I'd be curious to see if this figure is "natural gas useage average across the nation" or "natural gas useage average of all households who use natural gas for heating as well as cooking." Also, it neglects to mention that he's in the process, as of the date the report was written, of renovating his house to rely less on non-renewable resources. And, check me if I'm wrong, Gore hasn't even owned this house this wrong, correct?

4.) True, but it also neglects the fact that your average New Englander's air conditioning bill is a LOT less than your average southerner. You don't think they're having all those blackouts in southern Cali because they're overheating their places, do you?

I mean, everything presented there is true, Kevan, but it's not placed in an appropriate context, so it's meaningless.

Bush's environmentally-friendly design aspects of his house are one of the few things I have any respect for him on, though I fail to se ehow the "local fauna" saves fossil fuels. I agree, though, Kevan - any man who can live in a house like that and then refuse to legislate greenhouse gas emission caps and pass things like the "Clear Skies Act" while pocketing campaign donations from Big Oil is a total hypicrite.




EDIT - the article this information was drawn from, published by a conservative think-tank with strong GOP ties: http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/...article_id=367
EDIT - maybe I'm rremembering incorrectly with the fact most of the analysis was drawn based upon the dollar amount of his energy bills, and not KW useage. The other alternative is the TCPR people "updated" their paper, and I'm not sure which I trust less, right wing spin or my bad memory.

"...and everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon."

Check out my debut album, Zero Mantra, on iTunes!
http://www.metalguitarist.org
Drew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:44 AM   #19
noodles
I'm your huckleberry
 
noodles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 18,503
Thanked: 305
Feedback Score: 9 reviews

Noodles
Division: American Metal without the suck.
kxksales@gmail.com

Last edited by noodles; 11-18-2010 at 10:42 AM.
noodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:56 AM   #20
The Dark Wolf
Canis lupis obscurus
 
The Dark Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toledo, Ohio. USA
Posts: 17,594
Thanked: 94
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by noodles View Post
Let's pretend for a minute that Gore is burning coal in his back yard to power a mansion completely devoid off insulation. So. ....ing. What.

Are we going to completely ignore the problem, because one guy isn't as green as he ought to be? Let's just ignore all the evidence because one guy is a hypocrite. That's like a doctor telling you to eat right after your heart attack, and you ignore him because he had a hamburger for lunch. Give me a ....ing break.
Dave, sometimes you're so goddamn right, it's scary. Beautiful analogy.

http://www.wolf.org
The Dark Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:02 PM   #21
The Dark Wolf
Canis lupis obscurus
 
The Dark Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toledo, Ohio. USA
Posts: 17,594
Thanked: 94
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
Bush's environmentally-friendly design aspects of his house are one of the few things I have any respect for him on, though I fail to se ehow the "local fauna" saves fossil fuels. I agree, though, Kevan - any man who can live in a house like that and then refuse to legislate greenhouse gas emission caps and pass things like the "Clear Skies Act" while pocketing campaign donations from Big Oil is a total hypicrite.
Local fauna usually are used to save on water. Since the plants evolved to adapt to those conditions, they are more, like in this case, drought tolerant.

So yeah, it has very, very little to do with greenhouse gasses, or emissions of any kind. It's more to preserve the water table (which is notably scant in the southwest).

Nice irony on the hypocrisy thing, though, D. Noting Bush's personal conservation as opposed to his public and political. (His geothermal pump use for heating and cooling is an idea I saw years and years ago on This Old House and have kept in mind since, if I ever get to build my own home.)

http://www.wolf.org
The Dark Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:03 PM   #22
eaeolian
The Church of SEVEN
Super Moderator
 
eaeolian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 13,368
Thanked: 60
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Dave, that pic is awesome.

Division - American metal that doesn't suck. Much. Even on Facebook, and Soundclick might eventually be updated, too.
eaeolian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:18 PM   #23
noodles
I'm your huckleberry
 
noodles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 18,503
Thanked: 305
Feedback Score: 9 reviews


I was feeling inspired after reading this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaeolian View Post
Kevan, he's a *Scientologist*. He shouldn't be a spokesperson for ANYTHING.

Noodles
Division: American Metal without the suck.
kxksales@gmail.com
noodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:21 PM   #24
Kevan
The Tremol-No Guy
 
Kevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,128
Thanked: 37
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Nice spin, Drew! Touche'

Wait a sec. Did you say DRILL? You want to DRILL!?!?!??!
(that was *way* too easy. LOL)

As you pointed out, all facts.
The other fact is: Al chose that house, and then bought it. He knew it was as efficient as Concorde on takeoff when he singed at the closing. It's not like it was some big surprise.

If I'm not mistaken, it's just he and Tipper now (the hotties have moved out). He could very easily live in a different- more efficient from the start- house. No hassles from clowns like me, and I'm pretty sure it'd be cheaper than retrofitting.

For someone with such a public image, the best move he could do would be to retrofit the house, then sell it.
Ebay maybe. Have the auction end just before the polls close.

Noodles- that's the helipad.

"Thank YOU, Jim Day!"
Kevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:24 PM   #25
Drew
Fear the Polo!
 
Drew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 25,116
Thanked: 163
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Leave it to Kevan to make the Concorde joke.

Hey, fair enough, Kevan, no arguing there. Though, the question must be asked, if YOU owned his house, would you sell it, if it was just Rachel and you?

"...and everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon."

Check out my debut album, Zero Mantra, on iTunes!
http://www.metalguitarist.org
Drew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 PM.


Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Les Paul Forum | Marshall Amp Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

SS.org proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2004-2016, SevenString.org. All Rights Reserved.