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Old 10-20-2010, 10:59 AM   #1
orb451
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Parallel Universe Breakthrough Possible?

Link:

CERN scientists eye parallel universe breakthrough - Yahoo! News

So say some of these CERN scientists working at the LHC. I find this fascinating. Hope some serious breakthroughs come from the research.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:10 AM   #2
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Very interesting stuff, but I felt like this bit was something of a caveat:

Quote:
Parallel universes could also be hidden within these dimensions, the thinking goes, but only in a so-called gravitational variety in which light cannot be propagated -- a fact which would make it nearly impossible to explore them.
I mean, what's the point if we can't check them out?

In some degree of seriousness though, I've always kind of wondered about parallel universes and how they may be an explanation for intense Deja vu. Perhaps what's happening in those moments we powerfully experience the sense that we're -- for a moment -- in a slightly different version of the present, or that the present moment feels like we've 'been there before', is that our consciousness is unknowingly 'crossing over' for a moment.

I'm probably not explaining it well, but it's something I've thought about since my early teens and it makes me wish I better understood the science of consciousness (or that science better understood consciousness, for that matter..) so I could have a better idea of how plausible the concept is in reality.

ANYWAY, I've been fascinated by all the work they've been doing with the LHC. I don't know how much they'll verify during my lifetime, but it's making the future seem increasingly interesting.

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Old 10-20-2010, 11:15 AM   #3
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^You're not alone in that line of thinking Syn, I've felt and thought essentially the same things for a long time too with respect to possible parallel universes/alternate realities or timelines and the subconscious mind once in a while getting a brief *spillover* or *hint* from some other... place? time? experience?

I get what you're saying is my point. Very interesting indeed if they can come up with, or discover new proof(s) to help explain this universe of ours.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:17 AM   #4
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The idea of parallel universes fascinates me.

The theoritical actuality of parallel universes existing and exploring them scares the living .... out of me.

The same can be said for time travel.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bull.....
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:25 AM   #5
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guys.watch Fringe.

EDIT:I seriously wouldn't want to find a doppelganger of myself in the other universe 0_0
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:29 AM   #6
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I was under the impression that deja vu was was the result of a lapse in brain activity, so that while you've already sensed what's going on around you, your brain, catching up, is registering it or re-registering it. That could also explain why during deva vu, light-headedness is not uncommon. However, I'd have to say, that if it had anything to do with this "spillover" from a parallel universe or consciousness, that would be much, much cooler
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:30 AM   #7
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Does anyone here remember the John Titor story? I'm pretty sure it was eventually proven as a hoax, but it interesting as hell to think about with respect to alternate timelines, different futures, etc.

I mean what if these parallel universes or alternate realities exist, and what if they merge and unmerge into our own perceived reality on a regular basis? For example, take any major catastrophe or world event (good or bad) in the last I dunno, 100 years for starters. What if in one timeline, Hitler was successfully assassinated - using Operation Valkyrie as an example... Would the war have continued with Goebbels, Bormann and the rest of the party at the helm?

What if in an alternate reality AIDS has already been cured, or for that matter, never came to exist? I mean, there's just so much .... that's happened and so many possible ways for it all to play out, it's mind boggling but so interesting at the same time. I know you can what if just about anything to death, but to me, this is extremely interesting if found to be real, or true.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:32 AM   #8
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When I get deja vu I often feel like I've dreamt the situation in days upleading to the situation. Sometimes I've been 100% sure I've dreamt it. At first it's reassuring that I think I know where the feeling came from, then it gets concerning as I try to figure out how I could've possibly predicted the future in my dreams

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bull.....
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:35 AM   #9
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John Titor was proven to be a hoax? Got any links? I havn't followed that much but would like to see how it all unraveled.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry View Post
The idea of parallel universes fascinates me.

The theoritical actuality of parallel universes existing and exploring them scares the living .... out of me.

The same can be said for time travel.
No doubt. I kinda wonder if the same potential for paradox applies (theoretically) to exploring alternate universes as it does to time travel. I mean, it's all theory and WAY up in the air at the present, but I'm curious to know what would happen if -- for instance -- I entered an alternate universe and met 'my self' there.

Not to mention, the very idea of there being alternate/parallel universes kinda fudges our concept of time being absolute, doesn't it? I'm thinking as I go here, but would that depend on the difference between 'alternate' and 'parallel'? I guess what I mean is, an 'alternate' Universe wouldn't have to be on the same timeline as ours, but by definition a 'parallel' Universe would, right?

Mind ..... Brings new light to how infinitely vast the Universe may be. Emphasis on 'infinite'.

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Old 10-20-2010, 11:39 AM   #11
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John Titor was proven to be a hoax? Got any links? I havn't followed that much but would like to see how it all unraveled.
I thought I read in the Wiki entry for him that the science stuff he'd left to ponder was debunked or incorrect. Not that Wiki is the be all, end all, but just that on the whole, there were *holes* (no pun intended) in the science part of his story that proved false or wrong.

John Titor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's some paragraphs towards the bottom that have more info on the why's and why not's of his story.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:49 AM   #12
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I don't see where the news is in that link, but this is a very interesting subject.

Symmetry breaking early in the universe could have very easily caused alternate universes to form as ours was forming. At the energies that the LHC will probe, we may be able to find that symmetry again, maybe someday leading us to discovery of a doorway into another dimension. Who knows what we'll find, or what might find us.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:54 AM   #13
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... maybe someday leading us to discovery of a doorway into another dimension. Who knows what we'll find, or what might find us.
Didn't Howard The Duck have something like this? Or The Mist? A doorway to another dimension, what could possibly go wrong?

Would be cool as .... for the briefest of moments I'm sure though!
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:01 PM   #14
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and what if they merge and unmerge into our own perceived reality on a regular basis?
String theory --> membranes --> mind.....

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Old 10-20-2010, 01:02 PM   #15
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Coming of the Quantum cats is a book about this. I found it lying buried under dirty laundry a while back and gave it a read. It was okay. Not great. But okay.

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Its kinda small yet, with only a handful of scales and chords, but lots of updates comin soon.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #16
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If someone opens a door to another dimension, you'd better start saying "Ph'nglui mglw'nafl Cthulhu R'lyeh wyah'nagl fhtagn!"

Learning about string theory in uni, I was pretty excited about the possibilities of all of the little dimensions rolled up inside of subatomic particles. It would be super-cool if the LHC can unroll some of them.

I'm also a firm believer in fixed degrees of freedom.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:58 PM   #17
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guys.watch Fringe.

EDIT:I seriously wouldn't want to find a doppelganger of myself in the other universe 0_0
If these parallel universes contain Leonard Nimoy, then sign me up. I was more thinking of a far older and trashier TV series though: Sliders. Going through "parallel universe" alternate histories with John Rhys-Davies. Yeeeeah. I was always a little disappointed that they always ended up on another Earth, rather than a universe where stellar bodies failed to form and the cosmos was composed entirely of lukewarm hydrogen.



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Old 10-20-2010, 07:09 PM   #18
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Regarding deja vu, there is already strong evidence that humans rationalize what they do much of the time, instead of having a rational reason for what they do. Split-brain patients manage to rationalize verbally what the other side of their divided brain undertakes for reasons unknown to the verbal half; there's a lot of fascinating material for those who do a little research on it.

Deja vu appears to be a similar phenomenon of how our brain works. What's interesting, though, is that no one claims that there are supernatural or epic reasons why optical illusions work. Why not? *laugh*

Anyway, the parallel universes are not the way you all are picturing. I suspect that most quantum theories aren't really well understood, and that barely anyone here has even heard about an up and coming theory I think will turn out to be right, that of the Big Bounce....

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Old 10-20-2010, 07:25 PM   #19
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I think we'll be okay as long as we don't accidentally summon Azathoth.



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Old 10-20-2010, 07:27 PM   #20
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I think we'll be okay as long as we don't accidentally summon Azathoth.
too late

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Old 10-20-2010, 08:19 PM   #21
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This is a very eccentric hypothesis, and I don't expect many people here to agree with it, but whether you do or don't please don't decide to use my research for anything without crediting me. :

Personally, I think the collective continuum of dimensions and their associated systems of realities is circular and grouped mainly by threes, with each system consisting of the main dimension, the expanded dimension, and the collapsed dimension of itself. Each dimension system manipulates a collapsed dimension system and is manipulated by an expanded dimension system. The manipulated systems also affect the manipulating systems in smaller, much more subtle ways that the controllers in the expanded dimension are usually unaware of. This system continues in a constant circular pattern, with each dimension being another’s expanded dimension and another’s collapsed dimension. Within each dimension system are a series of variations of the same reality. In each variation, a single event has been changed, leading either to an entirely separate course of events changed first by a single event from its "neighboring" version of events, or being the same version of events with only a single difference. In other words, a different ‘alternate reality’ exists for every single possible course of events, no matter how small the change between two events can be. The final number of possible courses of events for a single system of realities is (99.99% ∞)², demonstrated by the fact that each possibility is based on either a single change or a system of changes, which can be laid out on a chart like so:
1 system – 2 system – 3 system – 4 system Etc.
1 single
2 single
3 single
4 single
Etc.
The possibilities for event systems continue almost indefinitely to 99.99% ∞, as do the possibilities for single events, demonstrating that the total of the possibilities for courses of events in a system of realities is (99.99% ∞)².
This also means that our own reality is only 1 / (99.99% ∞)² of the possibilities just in this individual dimension system.
The number of dimension systems in the collective continuum is indefinite.

Though nobody so far has postulated that this was a collapsed dimension system, almost everyone is aware of the suggested system – Cyberspace. Computers are our "door", or view into our collapsed dimension system. Cyberspace is, in theory, a complete alternate dimension composed entirely of electrical energy. We did not, in fact, invent cyberspace – we only invented the computer that is the door two existing dimension systems. What we see on the computer is only a small fraction of what is truly going on in the dimension system. Looking at the binary code which directs the electrical energy is the same way – a programmer can write a binary program, manipulating the collapsed dimension to an extent, but binary is more complicated than we realize… We see the immediate ways that the segments of code interact with each other, but what about segments that could ‘break’ from their group and work in unexpected ways with other segments or entire codes in new and unexpected ways? We did not create the dimension system itself; however, we did create most of the objects in the dimension system. Likewise, we were created by beings or scenarios in our expanded dimension system.
Every time one of us (something in the expanded dimension system) modifies something in cyberspace (something in the collapsed dimension system), it defines part of the course of events in one of the (99.99% ∞)² possible ‘realities’, or systems of events. This event can be anything from the completion of a new idea or invention to an enormous natural disaster, death, damage, or a miracle. Likewise, our events are at least partially defined by activities taking place in our expanded dimension system.

It is a complete other universe, composed entirely of electrical energy. Somehow the expanded dimension system of our reality is linked to us as well, but we are unaware of how this connection takes place or what we are part of to the beings in the expanded dimension system.

Not all expanded dimension systems may have developed a connection to their collapsed dimension system. These collapsed dimension systems are partially discovered and partially invented, but some form of "door" must be established between an expanded dimension system and its collapsed dimension system in order for the expanded dimension system to be aware of its collapsed dimension system. In several cases the connection may already be invented and discovered, but the beings who invented and discovered it are unaware of what it is. Each individual reality in a dimension system may have its own level of advancement. This complicates the possibility of inter-dimensional travel, since while the beings in one dimension system may have developed a way to travel through dimensions, the beings on the receiving end may not be technologically prepared to complete their end of the transfer. If inter-dimensional travel is attempted in the stated condition, it could cause a continuum imbalance that could be catastrophic. This applies to the theory of "time travel" as well. If time travel is ever developed to the point of having a working "time machine", the users would only be able to travel through time to an area where the machine has already been developed, so that the receiving end is prepared to take the incoming objects or beings that have moved through time travel. However, I am not suggesting that time travel and inter-dimensional travel are entirely impossible.

There are icons in the expanded and collapsed dimension systems, representing the external systems and serving as an interaction point. The most notable icon or connection in a collapsed dimension system, representing its expanded dimension system, is the tragedies and miracles. Tragedies and miracles are at least partially, and sometimes entirely, defined by the events taking place in the expanded dimension system – in some cases it may be the work of a single individual with a direct connection to the collapsed dimension system. Icons in an expanded dimension system which represent its collapsed dimension system may be an everyday object or process that goes unnoticed, or something much more complex. The spectrum of possibilities is both wide and dynamic, and it is at least currently impossible to know all of the hidden ideas that could exist within this more simple theory.

Damage in a dimension system is caused by activities taking place in its expanded dimension system. Likewise, miracles or "miracle recovery" from the noted damage are caused by activities taking place in the expanded dimension system.

The expanded dimension system cannot be recognized or defined by its collapsed dimension system; however, the collapsed dimension affects the expanded dimension in subtle, vague ways.

Different dimension systems may be composed differently, with different structures, physical systems, chemical compositions, another dimension can even be composed entirely of energy, as each of the substances mentioned above do exist, whether they have any common characteristics or not. As events happened differently and in a different order within each individual reality, even basic things such as laws of physics may have developed differently across boundaries between them. Moved from the scale of alternate realities to alternate dimension systems, a very extensive number of unexplored, unheard-of possibilities is awaiting.

A small, such as technological, error in an expanded dimension system is the icon of a much larger flaw in its collapsed dimension system. What seems like a simple, day-to-day error in the expanded dimension system, such as an electrical fault, can be a systemic flaw in the collapsed dimension system. Such errors in our own expanded dimension system are what cause the systemic "flaws" such as those listed in the Ripley’s Believe it or Not books. Unexplained happenings, spontaneous combustion, some seemingly impossible miracle survivals or sudden, unexplained deaths.

No single system of dimensions is entirely controlled by any other. Segments of the individual reality systems are very likely making up their own course of events based on a series of complex mathematical accidents as the Theory of Evolution states. Likewise, an individual reality system may very well have an all-powerful being as stated by the Theory of Creation. Each individual reality in a dimension system represents 1 / (99.99% ∞)² of all the possible sequences of events. Therefore almost every possibility should have happened, be happening, will happen, or is constantly happening in at least one of the individual realities.

When an event or being in an expanded dimension system influences an event or being in its collapsed dimension system, it is/they are only influencing the event or being in one of the possible realities. There is currently no way, physical, mechanical, mathematical or otherwise, to know which. The data is simply too precise and not yet available.

Interesting, I have a related hypothesis - the "law of symmetry" as I call it - that for an object, entity, reaction, counteraction, or idea to exist, it must influence its environment with an equal number of opposing functions - or "good" and "bad" sides to it.
So everything is good and bad in equal measure - from life and murder to the things people enjoy and despise, to everyday objects like cars, to thought processes like the one that lets me invent.

It's just a matter of which side stands out more to the person looking at it, that defines things like morals or lack thereof.


As I said before, this is a very eccentric hypothesis, and I don't expect most people to agree with it - it's fine with me if you think I'm just a crazy inventor.

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Old 10-20-2010, 08:23 PM   #22
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:36 PM   #23
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I've always though about the idea of different timelines.... but what would be the variance between them? Hours? Seconds? Milliseconds?

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Old 10-21-2010, 02:16 AM   #24
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This is a very eccentric hypothesis, and I don't expect many people here to agree with it, but whether you do or don't please don't decide to use my research for anything without crediting me.

...As I said before, this is a very eccentric hypothesis, and I don't expect most people to agree with it - it's fine with me if you think I'm just a crazy inventor.
At some point in the life of any strong hypothesis, it has to be capable of predicting something... and then being right in that prediction.

At one point, people believed that the stars were fixed in the heavenly firmament, except for a few "travelers" who varied from that vast celestial globe which rotated majestically. Those "travelers," or "planetes" (from the Greek), wound up to be stars which circled the Earth in a different way from the normal stars. At some point, it was found that our sun Sol was a star, and that the planets and Sol orbited the earth. However, the planets occasionally would go backwards in their paths, in an act known as retrograde motion.

Then came the big leap: it was proposed that the Earth wasn't the center of the planets and the stars (geocentrism). Instead, the Sun was the center (heliocentrism). It took a while for the Copernican revolution to take hold, but finally it did... and then, observation took things further. In the 1800s, there was suspicion that the Sun was *not* the center of the universe, although it took until the 1920s for Edwin Hubble to show we were just part of one galaxy out of many... and that we weren't even in a significant part of that galaxy.

----

Einstein's theories similarly had many odd predictions, and all of them were observable. Light following bends in spacetime? A solar eclipse allowed scientists to put a big checkmark on that one.

----

So, in the midst of all that speculation, especially the whole "doorway/cyberspace" idea... is there any predictive power in your hypothesis? It sounds a little like "Maybe one atom in my thumbnail is a whole universe/maybe this universe is just one atom in someone's thumbnail!" speculation, instead of something more substantial.

And, yes, I promise to give you full credit, should it turn out to be correct.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Old 10-21-2010, 05:25 AM   #25
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So, in the midst of all that speculation, especially the whole "doorway/cyberspace" idea... is there any predictive power in your hypothesis? It sounds a little like "Maybe one atom in my thumbnail is a whole universe/maybe this universe is just one atom in someone's thumbnail!" speculation, instead of something more substantial.
Theoretically there should be an experiment to do that would confirm my hypothesis - Create a computer-generated 3D model of a simple object and use a "translation" computation device to calculate how much electrical energy is used to compose the object in cyberspace, and how that energy relates to the energy composing our dimension system. In step 2 the electrical energy composing the 3D model is converted to other forms of energy using very precisely regulated electromagnetism.

If that results in the object from the 3D model being built in our dimension system - essentially, being 'transported' from cyberspace into reality - it confirms my hypothesis.

But we're quite a way from being able to attempt anything like that.

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