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Old 09-24-2010, 12:21 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Labor Strike in China = Suicide?!

NPR programme

external article

I heard about this on NPR-

According to the radio programme I heard, conditions in the Foxconn and Honda plants are so deplorable, that workers want to strike. Unfortunately, according to the programme, management will not allow workers to congregate or speak to one another. The reporter said that workers in these factories have taken to committing suicide.

Evidently, while reporters were at the Foxconn plant speaking with executives, another worker jumped to his death.

Wasn't the point of the communist revolution to end these sorts of conditions in factories?

I feel really bad for workers in China and India. The poverty there is inarguably horrific.

I also remember a story a few months ago, but I can't remember the link, about workers at Chinese KFC's demanding they be paid more than $130/month. I cannot imagine trying to support a family on that sort of wage, not to mention in the fastest developing country in the world.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:31 PM   #2
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This sort of thing is deplorable...

Have you heard about Behringer City?
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:43 PM   #3
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China is not communist, once you get that out of your system you might start to comprehend the situation.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:45 PM   #4
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This sort of thing is deplorable...

Have you heard about Behringer City?
No. Did something happen there as well?

I do recall Behringer being sued by several other companies for ripping off their designs without permission, and I think there was also a lawsuit with the FCC at some point.

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China is not communist, once you get that out of your system you might start to comprehend the situation.
Sure. But they did have a communist revolution.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:20 PM   #5
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That entire country's government is based on tradition over progress, hatred of free speech and apathy towards its own people. Never mind the morals even, none of their system is logical...and it's just depressing that so many people are ....ed for their entire lives, or have to resort to suicide. Not allowed to speak to each other? What the .... is that? Human rights, .... off.

If the ass-backwards bull....ters weren't so important economically I wish nations could sanction them until they made some BIG changes. But, yeah. And of course...the ramifications that would make to the already ....ty jobs there....it's just a quagmire of a situation
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:28 PM   #6
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Sure. But they did have a communist revolution.
so did Russia, but I'm sure that worked out very well for them :P

edit: while that kind of poverty abroad is abhorrent, many people tend to ignore the pervasive poverty in their own countries that continues to go unaddressed. Case in point, since the 2008 recession, over 1.5 million children in the U.S are homeless.

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Old 09-24-2010, 09:01 PM   #7
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This is what happens when you introduce neoliberal policies that completely destroy workers' rights. And of course multinationals love it, since it makes them more money.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:12 AM   #8
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China is not communist, once you get that out of your system you might start to comprehend the situation.
Yup. Even the Soviet Union wasn't truly communist at any point in time.
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:14 PM   #9
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No. Did something happen there as well?

I do recall Behringer being sued by several other companies for ripping off their designs without permission, and I think there was also a lawsuit with the FCC at some point.
Behringer city is a walled city dedicated to mfg. Behringer products. You aren't allowed to leave the city to see your family but 1 or 2 days per year. The rest of your time is spent as a captive labourer. It's disgusting. You can't leave to see what motivates you to work hard, and they aren't allowed within the walls of the city. Evidently, family is now a barricade to productivity.

I don't buy Behringer.
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:36 PM   #10
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Behringer city is a walled city dedicated to mfg. Behringer products. You aren't allowed to leave the city to see your family but 1 or 2 days per year. The rest of your time is spent as a captive labourer. It's disgusting. You can't leave to see what motivates you to work hard, and they aren't allowed within the walls of the city. Evidently, family is now a barricade to productivity.

I don't buy Behringer.
I didn't know about this, but I've never bought any of their stuff anyway. It kind of reminds me of the Cort factory in Korea, only worse. When you get down to it, most corporations use sweatshops in some form or another to manufacture goods. It's ridiculous, but when your entire motivation is to make as much money as you possibly can, being ethical is just a hindrance.

.... neo-imperialism. .... capitalism, too.
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:46 PM   #11
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Capitalism isn't inherently evil, just as anarchy, socialism, fascism and communism aren't evil... It's its usage that makes it evil. Any social idea can be used as a tool for evil in the wrong hands. Just as it can be used for good. Finding a balance that works in a given culture that doesn't allow for those in power to be checked by the will of the people is always the right course. We can't keep making the ideas wrong in our culture... Ideas in their proper light are neither right or wrong. Given the right situation, any idea can be the right one.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:56 PM   #12
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Capitalism isn't inherently evil, just as anarchy, socialism, fascism and communism aren't evil... It's its usage that makes it evil. Any social idea can be used as a tool for evil in the wrong hands. Just as it can be used for good. Finding a balance that works in a given culture that doesn't allow for those in power to be checked by the will of the people is always the right course. We can't keep making the ideas wrong in our culture... Ideas in their proper light are neither right or wrong. Given the right situation, any idea can be the right one.
I realize I'm going to get branded as a lefty wingnut for saying this, but I believe that socialism is the only way to completely fix these problems.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #13
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Socialist ideas maybe... Not socialism in general. Socialism fails as often as capitalism fails. No system is perfect. And while I agree to some extent... In a perfect world Anarchy would be best. But the world isn't perfect and we need people to govern because some people can't respect an equal. They can only understand a hierarchy. Some people even need it to be comfortable and feel like they have a place in the order of things. It's sad, but it's like the people who can't live in a world without violence. They need it to understand when they've pushed someone too far. I believe in self governing... But not all people are responsible enough to follow this ideal. ...., a lot of the time, I'M not responsible enough to follow through on it. But it's something to work towards.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:00 PM   #14
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I realize I'm going to get branded as a lefty wingnut for saying this, but I believe that socialism is the only way to completely fix these problems.
Capitalism breeds "evil". Too much power is put in the hands of individuals, and there are always going to be people that exploit others for their own good. Which is exactly why I believe that capital should be a social responsibility. But I'll leave this here because I'm yet to see this system worked effectively either. Theoretically it's the system I favour.

What'll really get to you is when you realise that boycotting certain brands is pointless, and that ultimately your wealth is a direct result of the exploitation of others.

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Old 09-25-2010, 07:11 PM   #15
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This is where the idea of a voluntary community in certain types of anarchy is what I follow. It's a social agreement between peers to share in something. Ultimately, all are responsible, and it brings those with different abilities into their fields naturally, instead of through potential gain. Situations where a person has a choice to participate in the 'system' are preferable to those where you are a slave to it.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:25 PM   #16
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Socialist ideas maybe... Not socialism in general. Socialism fails as often as capitalism fails. No system is perfect. And while I agree to some extent... In a perfect world Anarchy would be best. But the world isn't perfect and we need people to govern because some people can't respect an equal. They can only understand a hierarchy. Some people even need it to be comfortable and feel like they have a place in the order of things. It's sad, but it's like the people who can't live in a world without violence. They need it to understand when they've pushed someone too far. I believe in self governing... But not all people are responsible enough to follow this ideal. ...., a lot of the time, I'M not responsible enough to follow through on it. But it's something to work towards.
Socialism is a very simple idea that hasn't ever been implemented due to, well, a lot of things. Vanguard parties co-opting revolutions, external pressure, stuff like that. I believe, however, that real socialism, instead of state capitalism masked as socialism, can absolutely work. The only thing that's currently the problem is the fact that most people don't even know what socialism is, and insist that their definition they heard in school or on Glenn Beck is right. I think that if you sat down with someone and explained why capitalism is inherently flawed, and why socialism is the ideal system, then there's a good chance that they might agree with you, provided you explain it in plain English. And if they can briefly ignore their biases.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:28 PM   #17
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Wasn't the point of the communist revolution to end these sorts of conditions in factories?
China isn't communist. Or rather, it doesn't follow the tenants of communism.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #18
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Socialism is a very simple idea that hasn't ever been implemented due to, well, a lot of things. Vanguard parties co-opting revolutions, external pressure, stuff like that. I believe, however, that real socialism, instead of state capitalism masked as socialism, can absolutely work. The only thing that's currently the problem is the fact that most people don't even know what socialism is, and insist that their definition they heard in school or on Glenn Beck is right. I think that if you sat down with someone and explained why capitalism is inherently flawed, and why socialism is the ideal system, then there's a good chance that they might agree with you, provided you explain it in plain English. And if they can briefly ignore their biases.
This is it. It seems that socialism and communism have become such dirty words. Clearly those people with the power to influence peoples opinions favour things just the way they are. I'm willing to bet this forum is predominantly left wing tbh, as most metal musicians are educated and working class.

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Old 09-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #19
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I realize I'm going to get branded as a lefty wingnut for saying this, but I believe that socialism is the only way to completely fix these problems.
Nah man, no judgemnents here. I've also thought that none of the current forms of government are capable of creating a Utopian society (for everyone). It would have to be a mix of different ideologies converging with the single point of allowing everyone that wishes to do so to prosper.

Anyone ever see Appleseed? I had to agree with the idea of an AI as the ruling body for man... its the only way to remove the greed / ideoligcal superiority quotient that is always the downfall of capitalist / socialist endeavors.

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Old 09-25-2010, 07:46 PM   #20
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I know what true socialism is. But my opinion is that in any system that doesn't allow a person free will is inherently wrong. I also disagree with a community's right to co-opt some one's profit or crop without that person's permission. I personally find an inherent flaw in everyone making the same amount of money of having to share with those who are undeserving of being shared with. IE those who do not produce due to laziness. I also don't like the idea of an entitlement system over a merit system. Hard work should be rewarded with better pay. Period. Why work harder than the guy next to you if you get the same pay as the lazy asshole? It makes no sense. I agree that ambition CAN be evil. But it isn't in ALL cases. Wealth and power aren't in themselves aren't evil. It's a tool. Saying wealth and power are evil is to say that the knife used to murder is evil in itself. So lefts outlaw knives because of their potential. Even better... Let's make it illegal to be a human being because they have the potential to committ murder. There you go... Perfect society of slavery. We all go to jail, but were all equal. No one is treated any differently, have the same level of wealth, etc. But you forget... There are always the guards and warden who's world you live in. They make the rules and you follow them.

Reality is this... There are slaves there are guards and there are wardens in ALL systems. There is no perfect system executed perfectly as there are no perfect people. There are no situations without external influence in our world. Therefore, socialism is a flawed system. So the question remains... Who do you want to be? The prisoner, the guard or the warden?
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:52 PM   #21
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Nah man, no judgemnents here. I've also thought that none of the current forms of government are capable of creating a Utopian society (for everyone). It would have to be a mix of different ideologies converging with the single point of allowing everyone that wishes to do so to prosper.

Anyone ever see Appleseed? I had to agree with the idea of an AI as the ruling body for man... its the only way to remove the greed / ideoligcal superiority quotient that is always the downfall of capitalist / socialist endeavors.
I disagree... This would be a crutch to aleviate the problems and ultimately lead us to being un able to guide ourselves in the event of AI collapse. Also causing the human consciousness to stagnate. There would be no reason to evolve. Nothing to strive for. Nothing to strive for, no apparent gain. No fittest, no evolution. No evolution, species dies.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:57 PM   #22
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I know what true socialism is. But my opinion is that in any system that doesn't allow a person free will is inherently wrong. I also disagree with a community's right to co-opt some one's profit or crop without that person's permission. I personally find an inherent flaw in everyone making the same amount of money of having to share with those who are undeserving of being shared with. IE those who do not produce due to laziness. I also don't like the idea of an entitlement system over a merit system. Hard work should be rewarded with better pay. Period. Why work harder than the guy next to you if you get the same pay as the lazy asshole? It makes no sense. I agree that ambition CAN be evil. But it isn't in ALL cases. Wealth and power aren't in themselves aren't evil. It's a tool. Saying wealth and power are evil is to say that the knife used to murder is evil in itself. So lefts outlaw knives because of their potential. Even better... Let's make it illegal to be a human being because they have the potential to committ murder. There you go... Perfect society of slavery. We all go to jail, but were all equal. No one is treated any differently, have the same level of wealth, etc. But you forget... There are always the guards and warden who's world you live in. They make the rules and you follow them.

Reality is this... There are slaves there are guards and there are wardens in ALL systems. There is no perfect system executed perfectly as there are no perfect people. There are no situations without external influence in our world. Therefore, socialism is a flawed system. So the question remains... Who do you want to be? The prisoner, the guard or the warden?
EEEEEH. This does not happen in socialism. Socialism has never been about equal pay (although the ruling class loves to spread that lie); it's about fair pay, and workers controlling the means of production. In other words, people get paid for how hard they work without some guy standing above them and taking most of the money for himself because he owns the place.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:59 PM   #23
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I know what true socialism is. But my opinion is that in any system that doesn't allow a person free will is inherently wrong. I also disagree with a community's right to co-opt some one's profit or crop without that person's permission. I personally find an inherent flaw in everyone making the same amount of money of having to share with those who are undeserving of being shared with. IE those who do not produce due to laziness. I also don't like the idea of an entitlement system over a merit system. Hard work should be rewarded with better pay. Period. Why work harder than the guy next to you if you get the same pay as the lazy asshole? It makes no sense. I agree that ambition CAN be evil. But it isn't in ALL cases. Wealth and power aren't in themselves aren't evil. It's a tool. Saying wealth and power are evil is to say that the knife used to murder is evil in itself. So lefts outlaw knives because of their potential. Even better... Let's make it illegal to be a human being because they have the potential to committ murder. There you go... Perfect society of slavery. We all go to jail, but were all equal. No one is treated any differently, have the same level of wealth, etc. But you forget... There are always the guards and warden who's world you live in. They make the rules and you follow them.

Reality is this... There are slaves there are guards and there are wardens in ALL systems. There is no perfect system executed perfectly as there are no perfect people. There are no situations without external influence in our world. Therefore, socialism is a flawed system. So the question remains... Who do you want to be? The prisoner, the guard or the warden?
I think you misunderstand some of the features of socialism. Marxism in particular does not advocate equal pay.

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Old 09-25-2010, 08:06 PM   #24
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I disagree... This would be a crutch to aleviate the problems and ultimately lead us to being un able to guide ourselves in the event of AI collapse. Also causing the human consciousness to stagnate. There would be no reason to evolve. Nothing to strive for. Nothing to strive for, no apparent gain. No fittest, no evolution. No evolution, species dies.
Human consciousness is already in a state of stagnation, and its a dog eat dog system in place. I don't think government or a lack of it directly causes that condition. An efficient and not ideologically-driven government could allow mankind to reach its ultimate potential while keeping those with a lust for power from destroying everyone else.

Humans are easily-led and any gifted, power-hungry person can rally them to do abhorrent and self-destructive things. Of course I pretty much view all politicians as sociopaths, but in the US its hard not too (for me anyway).

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Old 09-25-2010, 08:11 PM   #25
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Human consciousness is already in a state of stagnation, and its a dog eat dog system in place. I don't think government or a lack of it directly causes that condition. An efficient and not ideologically-driven government could allow mankind to reach its ultimate potential while keeping those with a lust for power from destroying everyone else.

Humans are easily-led and any gifted, power-hungry person can rally them to do abhorrent and self-destructive things. Of course I pretty much view all politicians as sociopaths, but in the US its hard not too (for me anyway).
I think it's more that there's very little the exploited can do. The ruling classes will do anything to keep themselves on top, and overlook the hardships of many to fulfil the lives of few. The working man really doesn't have any kind of voice at all. And anyone capable of being that voice is given entry to the bourgeoisie and thus their passion/need for revolution or change is suppressed.

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