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Old 09-08-2010, 08:03 PM   #1
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Writing horrendous goregrind...

how do i does it? I'm looking to write some of this .... but whenever I sit down and grind around low on the neck it's always underwhelming. This is probably just because I'm alone with a guitar and a relatively small amp, but I don't want to show up to a jam with a bunch of boring riffs.

What I'm assuming is this.

1) Throw theory out the window. Done. I barely know any anyway.
2) Palm mute most things
3) Chromaticism
4) Grooves
5) "omgwtfbbq" ridiculous riffs that are impossible to tab and sound like a whirlwind of gore. This is the hard part.

I don't listen to much goregrind specifically but I'm right into any death metal and that includes that awful OTT slam stuff like Drowning in Phemaldehyde and Artery Eruption. I figure I can take what I know there and come up with something that would work. What I'm after is a decidedly death metal influenced, brutal, crude, gory kind of sound. Slam parts are fine, ridiculous fast parts are great, and general sloppiness is paramount. It has to sound bad, but in a controlled way.

Anyone here play over the top death metal/goregrind/grind? Writing tips?
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:07 PM   #2
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Are you recording yourself when writing? Regardless of genera, I find that REALLY helps me get out of writing ruts.

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Old 09-08-2010, 08:10 PM   #3
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Play random tremelo picked notes at 220bpm. It works.

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Old 09-08-2010, 10:57 PM   #4
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Whenever I write really nasty grind/death riffs I just try to stop thinking about it as "playing guitar". Instead of thinking in terms of shapes and fretboard patterns, I try to focus solely on the sounds that I'm making and how it all pieces together. That probably sounds completely retarded and doesn't make any sense, though.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Funeral View Post
thinking in terms of shapes and fretboard patterns
Bingo
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:32 PM   #6
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I've been working on a grind/noisecore project with a couple of guys, and we look at things as sounds and textures rather than "riffs", you know? It's not scientific in the least, but we definitely get some interesting ideas out just by pretty much forgetting conventional methods of playing heavy music. So I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with Whiskey Funeral
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:57 PM   #7
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We have a cybergrind side project called ♥Kankles♥ (the horror nameplates are so tired and cliche ) and I gotta be honest, while it's supposed to be stupid easy (but fast as hell) stuff to play, it's a challenge sometimes to create stuff for it, TBH.

I'm with Jeff above, try to create textures from fast notes and/or in-and-out-of-dissonance chords... and do not worry about the "punch" or the "chunk" of the riffs... let the over the top drumming do that. You obviously like Portal, while not really grind, they really do that sort of fast & textural playing creatively.

Another thing I like to do in that project is overdubs, where I'll record two tracks of some riff panned left/right, then record two more doing something else (sometimes fast runs over shifting chords, or vice versa) and mix the later in at say 50% of the main volume, and pan them in a bit. It all adds a bit more dissonance and fullness to the guitar parts. The rest is all ugly, noisy bass (we use synth bass), pounding drums, and chaotic vocals.




Quote:
1) Throw theory out the window. Done. I barely know any anyway.
2) Palm mute most things
3) Chromaticism
4) Grooves
5) "omgwtfbbq" ridiculous riffs that are impossible to tab and sound like a whirlwind of gore. This is the hard part.
I'll disagree with most of this here to various extents:

1) Theory is perfectly applicable, IMHO. Even experiment with some out of the box jazz-style chords that might get nice and nasty through distortion, and stuff like passing tones. The trick is not to make it overly technical from a compositional standpoint. Playing a really odd two chord progression insanely fast is acceptable... just don't make it into a Dream Theater kind of thing.
2) Not at all. Remember grind came from British crust punk as much as it did American death metal, and was on firm footing before the later really came in. Lots of fast open chord strumming is completely acceptable, if not, necessary.
3) It's cool where it works, but thrash relies more on it than grind ever did.
4) Sure, but keep it interment, or in short, single song section like bursts... it should almost entice the listener, then go back to frantic.
5) Again, I wouldn't overdo the technicality if it doesn't serve the song, sometimes the simplest riffs can pummel the listener, sometimes the wrist-wreckers work. I do about equal parts of both. Keep in mind that the guitars at half-time (but not any slower, like dirgey death metal riffs) to frantic drums often have a killer impact. Keep that in mind when you write, or set up your drum program with a super fast skank beat and half-time over to to see if it works.

Happy grinding!
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:12 AM   #8
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I just wrote a little grind EP all about Mortal Kombat, and I looked at the riffs and notes as basic as I could. I took basic chords/intervals that sounded really heavy together and worked with them. A majority of the time it was taking a handful of notes and working with JUST those, between chords, random changes in what was played when, and tremolo picking.

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Old 09-09-2010, 10:25 AM   #9
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GREAT info guys, thanks for not giving the typical "lol just write wat u think sounds good lol" response.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Variant View Post
We have a cybergrind side project called ♥Kankles♥ (the horror nameplates are so tired and cliche ) and I gotta be honest, while it's supposed to be stupid easy (but fast as hell) stuff to play, it's a challenge sometimes to create stuff for it, TBH.

I'm with Jeff above, try to create textures from fast notes and/or in-and-out-of-dissonance chords... and do not worry about the "punch" or the "chunk" of the riffs... let the over the top drumming do that. You obviously like Portal, while not really grind, they really do that sort of fast & textural playing creatively.

Another thing I like to do in that project is overdubs, where I'll record two tracks of some riff panned left/right, then record two more doing something else (sometimes fast runs over shifting chords, or vice versa) and mix the later in at say 50% of the main volume, and pan them in a bit. It all adds a bit more dissonance and fullness to the guitar parts. The rest is all ugly, noisy bass (we use synth bass), pounding drums, and chaotic vocals.






I'll disagree with most of this here to various extents:

1) Theory is perfectly applicable, IMHO. Even experiment with some out of the box jazz-style chords that might get nice and nasty through distortion, and stuff like passing tones. The trick is not to make it overly technical from a compositional standpoint. Playing a really odd two chord progression insanely fast is acceptable... just don't make it into a Dream Theater kind of thing.
2) Not at all. Remember grind came from British crust punk as much as it did American death metal, and was on firm footing before the later really came in. Lots of fast open chord strumming is completely acceptable, if not, necessary.
3) It's cool where it works, but thrash relies more on it than grind ever did.
4) Sure, but keep it interment, or in short, single song section like bursts... it should almost entice the listener, then go back to frantic.
5) Again, I wouldn't overdo the technicality if it doesn't serve the song, sometimes the simplest riffs can pummel the listener, sometimes the wrist-wreckers work. I do about equal parts of both. Keep in mind that the guitars at half-time (but not any slower, like dirgey death metal riffs) to frantic drums often have a killer impact. Keep that in mind when you write, or set up your drum program with a super fast skank beat and half-time over to to see if it works.

Happy grinding!
I like the input, but I want this to have a good amount of death metal mixed in, so I guess I should have said deathgrind or just plain sloppy brutal death metal with really ....ed up song topics. Sort of something like Last Days of Humanity mixed with Cock and Ball Torture/Rompeprop type stuff mixed with older Devourment with a kind of Brodequin/Mortician approach to the death metal. I likes my palm muting so I plan on doing it. But yes, I'm not planning on making it technical whatsoever, I just need some kind of inspiration for just writing riffs.

I like the bit about textural riffs rather than what is "traditional". I've tried this before (after listening to Portal) and came up with one or two cool ideas pretty much from just using random arrangements of random intervals until it clicked. As far as the ridiculous frantic riffs go, that's where I'll draw mostly from death metal, with those crazy tremolo picked chromatic nonsense riffs, only played at double speed (therefore sloppily, this adds to the chaos). The disgusting tone I'll have dialed in will also help.

I guess I should just stop caring about how simple some of the riffs may be. I just like stuff that looks hard to play, hahaha. Any idea what tunings would work? I'm sure any would, but I am kind of partial to B and Bb. This stuff kind of has to be low in order for it to sound right to me, especially groovy parts. I don't want to put a 6 string into A, though.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:48 AM   #10
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Groph if you're not already familiar with the music of Exhumed, you're missing the goriest gore-grind group in Goretown. Essential music, and a great source of inspiration for me when I'm in riff-writing mode. Or corpse-raping mode.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:58 AM   #11
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abuse the diminished scale, i do not mean use, i mean abuse... and then add some chuggachugga and chromatic tremolo picking lines, ya done!
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Funeral View Post
Whenever I write really nasty grind/death riffs I just try to stop thinking about it as "playing guitar". Instead of thinking in terms of shapes and fretboard patterns, I try to focus solely on the sounds that I'm making and how it all pieces together. That probably sounds completely retarded and doesn't make any sense, though.

thats what i do and it works

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Old 09-09-2010, 12:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by groph View Post
Any idea what tunings would work? I'm sure any would, but I am kind of partial to B and Bb. This stuff kind of has to be low in order for it to sound right to me, especially groovy parts. I don't want to put a 6 string into A, though.
I used Drop C and D Standard for all my grind stuff and it sounds heavy as .... (to me of course). I'd say go C# at the lowest, half the time grind sounds brutal and in your face even though it may only be Eb (looking at you Napalm Death).

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Old 09-09-2010, 12:11 PM   #14
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Jeff, I hope this is in reference to riffs you will use for Feculent Urethral Discharge.

Don't you have a seven string? I've been trying to write the same style of riffs, but my six is set up as a baritone. I've been trying to get an idea of how to write better riffs in this style by playing some Last Days of Humanity, Gut, and Exhumed. It's not getting me anywhere unfortunately. It doesn't help that I've been playing too much Wrestlemania 2000.

Slam is pretty easy. Breakdowns, slow palm-muted chuggy riff, occasional pinch harmonic, and tremeolo picking. I haven't tried incorporating anything grindy (real grind) into it aside from the tremolo picking.

What I really want to write is that somewhat poppy-sounding style riff you hear in a lot of pornogrind. Palm muted chords and way-too-happy high hat plus snare combo. There's a good example of what I mean (or at least the drums here):


That's my buddy's band Sister Fister from New Brunswick. He's a retarded drummer and I love him.

Like MFB said, sometimes it's not always about being tuned low... but it sure does sound good. I have a fuzz pedal that I've used in D and it sounds ....ing heavy. Like Electric Wizard heavy. I can't imagine what it would sound like lower.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:10 PM   #15
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Just throw your hands around on powerchords in a standard.

Ride the wings of death!

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Old 09-09-2010, 01:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Funeral View Post
Whenever I write really nasty grind/death riffs I just try to stop thinking about it as "playing guitar". Instead of thinking in terms of shapes and fretboard patterns, I try to focus solely on the sounds that I'm making and how it all pieces together. That probably sounds completely retarded and doesn't make any sense, though.
i dont know if that was a joke or not. you sort of fundamentally described the art of musicianship.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by maxident213 View Post
Groph if you're not already familiar with the music of Exhumed, you're missing the goriest gore-grind group in Goretown. Essential music, and a great source of inspiration for me when I'm in riff-writing mode. Or corpse-raping mode.
I would add Impaled and of course, old Carcass (not Heartwork, talking Symphonies of Sickness or Reek of Putrefaction). Remember, the guitar plays a big role in this style of music but it's very important to have a big, nasty, grinding bass guitar tone in the band.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh pelican View Post
GEOFF, I hope this is in reference to riffs you will use for Feculent Urethral Discharge.

Don't you have a seven string? I've been trying to write the same style of riffs, but my six is set up as a baritone. I've been trying to get an idea of how to write better riffs in this style by playing some Last Days of Humanity, Gut, and Exhumed. It's not getting me anywhere unfortunately. It doesn't help that I've been playing too much Wrestlemania 2000.

Slam is pretty easy. Breakdowns, slow palm-muted chuggy riff, occasional pinch harmonic, and tremeolo picking. I haven't tried incorporating anything grindy (real grind) into it aside from the tremolo picking.

What I really want to write is that somewhat poppy-sounding style riff you hear in a lot of pornogrind. Palm muted chords and way-too-happy high hat plus snare combo. There's a good example of what I mean (or at least the drums here):


That's my buddy's band Sister Fister from New Brunswick. He's a retarded drummer and I love him.

Like MFB said, sometimes it's not always about being tuned low... but it sure does sound good. I have a fuzz pedal that I've used in D and it sounds ....ing heavy. Like Electric Wizard heavy. I can't imagine what it would sound like lower.

fixed, and:

This is precisely what this thread is for. I had an RG7321 but I sold it and snagged an old ass Platinum Warlock a few months later as a replacement, I just wanted 2 six strings for different tunings. I might end up using that guitar if the DiMarzio X2N I got for it ends up ripping, otherwise I'll be using my Jackson which I know you'll love. I'm definitely down for that pornogrind stuff, I love some of the grooves. My favorite example of that kind of stuff is definitely CBT's album Egoleech since that .... is still brutal as hell in my books and I can write those riffs quite easily.

Soon enough I'll be getting my Boss Metalzone modded so I'll be getting all sorts of disgusting tones when I use that thing for a boost. I need a new cab, I might pick up Lee's old 5150 cab if I can talk him down 50 bucks or so, hahaha. That thing is haggard but sounds pretty solid.

EDIT: Josh, to be honest, I can crap out CBT style grooves all day. I think writing .... like that and then tremolo picking the roots of the chords (look at Mortician tabs, this is pretty much all they do, have a power chord chuggy part and then the fast part is the roots of the power chords being tremolo picked. Formulaic, but brutal) would work in a pinch.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:32 PM   #19
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I can't believe I said Jeff. I think it's because I was reading Jeff's (from Montreal) post before starting mine.

Jackson = Love. If you end up using that for this project, I'll .... my pants. Whether we're in B or we're in D, I am 100% ready for this project. I think I have a few riffs in GP so I'll check it out. If you set up one of your guitars for B, I will set up my Spector. It'll be heavy as hell and awesome, especially if you get the Jackson setup. Jackson + Spector. fuuuuuuuuu.

Can we cover Last Days of Humanity and Gut? or any band for that matter? I'll go slam covers of Justin (My) Beaver or Lad Gaga.

I want to be one of those serious bands, with a tad bit of joke to it. I want to have a huge following of Mexicans, too.
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh pelican View Post
I can't believe I said Jeff. I think it's because I was reading Jeff's (from Montreal) post before starting mine.

Jackson = Love. If you end up using that for this project, I'll .... my pants. Whether we're in B or we're in D, I am 100% ready for this project. I think I have a few riffs in GP so I'll check it out. If you set up one of your guitars for B, I will set up my Spector. It'll be heavy as hell and awesome, especially if you get the Jackson setup. Jackson + Spector. fuuuuuuuuu.

Can we cover Last Days of Humanity and Gut? or any band for that matter? I'll go slam covers of Justin (My) Beaver or Lad Gaga.

I want to be one of those serious bands, with a tad bit of joke to it. I want to have a huge following of Mexicans, too.
If it sounds like that clip you posted, at least i will follow.

Seriously, i couldnt stop laughing... mostly because of the drumming
edit: perhaps it was just the video
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:05 AM   #21
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I ....ing love hearing those drums in goregrind... then ya' gotta get four quick snare hits and blast the .... out of everything. Then jump right back into that poppy .....
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:47 AM   #22
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Alright that ....ing settles it. We're making a ....ing band that combines all of these wonderful variations of grind and slapping (slamming) it on a slam death metal skeleton.

EDIT: Josh. If you could make some drum tracks using whatever the .... program and send them to me, that would be great. Put as much of that poppy hilarious drumming in it as you want.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:10 PM   #23
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I'll see what I can do. I haven't done a lot of drum programming in a long time, but it shouldn't be too hard.

Also, for what it's worth, Defeated Sanity's tuning is C/F/A#/D#/G/C. They're heavy as .... and are beyond awesome. We could try that tuning out so we don't have to get our instruments set up. My Spector is already tuned CGCF so this would be easy for me.

Also, can we start our own style of brutal death metal/slam/goregrind? We've got Guttural Gore Groove and Slamming Orgasmic Butchery... but we need to have .... Slamming Brutality... or Guttural Slam Jams... or Cherry Popping Slam Death... or Twat Disfiguring Brutal Death Metal...

... or Dead Slut Gut .....
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:12 PM   #24
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Or Clam Slamming Brutality.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:52 PM   #25
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Hymen Frosted Blast Butts
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