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Old 01-11-2010, 04:20 PM   #1
eleven59
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Metal and Homophobia/Sexism

So, this is something I've been seeing more and more being in the metal scene: guys always being "manly men" and making homophobic/sexist comments.

They'll (almost) always deny being actually homophobic/sexist, but they'll still be extremely disrespectful towards women/gays, and any time they don't like something it's "gay".

I guess what I'm asking is:

Is ridiculous, over the top, chest-beating manliness a requirement of metal?
Are all/most metalheads actually homophobic/sexist?
Am I the only one that finds this completely ridiculous and pathetic?

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Old 01-11-2010, 04:27 PM   #2
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or you can be Steel Panther and making fun of it and the so called lifestyle.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:27 PM   #3
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Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.

The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hollowman666 View Post
or you can be Steel Panther and making fun of it and the so called lifestyle.
True enough, it just seems like a large number of people take that .... seriously and it's starting to piss me off and make me want to quit the scene.

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Old 01-11-2010, 04:28 PM   #5
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Machismo is part of Heavy Metal. Drink beer, play guitar fast and bang your head... these are things straight guys like to do. Saying it's pathetic though... is kinda silly considering it's what the genre is based on. Metal SOUNDS macho, so it's no surprise the guys who like it are too.

Macho can also be a gay thing in context, hell I'm sure there are gay dudes out there who love drinking beer, playing guitar fast and banging their heads.

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It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.


A gay man that can hold his own gets just as much respect as a straight man that can hold his own. A wimp gets no respect, gay or not.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bull.....
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis View Post
Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.

The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.
I knew you'd have some good insight. You make some really good points.

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Old 01-11-2010, 04:32 PM   #7
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I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.

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Old 01-11-2010, 04:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis View Post
Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.

The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.
Wait, who's gay in Cynic?

Gay and masculine are not mutually exclusive. Nor is metal and gay
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by eleven59 View Post
I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.
Yeah absolutely, metal today is more open-minded than it's ever been. Metal is also more brutal than it's ever been, so I hope it never loses that macho side as for me it's the key essence of the genre.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bull.....
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #10
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You should watch this:


It has a part witch talks about the metal and sexuality thing.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:36 PM   #11
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Yeah absolutely, metal today is more open-minded than it's ever been. Metal is also more brutal than it's ever been, so I hope it never loses that macho side as for me it's the key essence of the genre.
+1
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by eleven59 View Post
I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.
Those are the things I like about metal. Aggression and violence and that element of danger is what makes metal good. To take that away would be de-balling it for people who find it "too extreme". Metal is about being extreme and always has been since the early days of the extreme genres..I'd be seriously pissed if it got watered down.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis View Post
Those are the things I like about metal. Aggression and violence and that element of danger is what makes metal good. To take that away would be de-balling it for people who find it "too extreme". Metal is about being extreme and always has been since the early days of the extreme genres..I'd be seriously pissed if it got watered down.


Repped.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bull.....
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleven59 View Post
I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.
Want big and epic sounding metal?

www.myspace.com/tracesmetal here you go
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:42 PM   #15
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It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.
WINNAR
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:43 PM   #16
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Want big and epic sounding metal?

www.myspace.com/tracesmetal here you go

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bull.....
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:45 PM   #17
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Metal isn't really sexist either. If anything, metal is far less sexist than normal rock music.

Metal will have lyrics about killing and mutilating people in an indiscriminate manner. Rock half the time seems to be a more musical version of rap: .... as much ..... as you can while doing drugs.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:45 PM   #18
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Wow, who's gay in Vader,Morbid Angel, and Cynic?
Also I don't have a problem with homosexuals, but if you flaunt it around trying to make it sound like it's the greatest thing in the world. I don't really agree with you.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:48 PM   #19
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The guitarist and drummer in Cynic, Doc of Vader was gay and it's believed other members are, and the bassist/vocalist of Morbid is "bi". Yes he has a wife but it's well known that he plays for both teams. There are others too and people don't care. It has nothing to do with the music so it's not really a factor. And we can all agree that the people I've mentioned have more than proven themselves in the scene and no one thinks twice about it. Surely you have a few who don't care but so what? That's life. You can write songs about eating people and raping dead children but you run crying because some idiot called you a fag?
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis View Post
Those are the things I like about metal. Aggression and violence and that element of danger is what makes metal good. To take that away would be de-balling it for people who find it "too extreme". Metal is about being extreme and always has been since the early days of the extreme genres..I'd be seriously pissed if it got watered down.
I'm not saying watering it down musically. I've just never seen metal as "tough" or "violent" in a manly, muscly kind of way, I've always seen that side of metal as more of a chaotic, uncontrolled kind of thing. Metal to me has always fallen into two chategories: mechanical, and superhuman.

Everything in metal, to me, is about sounding bigger than human, or sounding like a machine, and in both cases, occasionally sounding violently out of control and dangerous.


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Old 01-11-2010, 04:52 PM   #21
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The guitarist and drummer in Cynic, Doc of Vader was gay and it's believed other members are, and the bassist/vocalist of Morbid is "bi". Yes he has a wife but it's well known that he plays for both teams.


Holy ...., Sean Reinert is gay? I had no idea, he's one of the most creative drummers I can think of though. I had a feeling David Vincent might have been 50/50, I wasn't positive though. I didn't know Doc *RIP* was either.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:57 PM   #22
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I'm not saying watering it down musically. I've just never seen metal as "tough" or "violent" in a manly, muscly kind of way, I've always seen that side of metal as more of a chaotic, uncontrolled kind of thing. Metal to me has always fallen into two chategories: mechanical, and superhuman.

Everything in metal, to me, is about sounding bigger than human, or sounding like a machine, and in both cases, occasionally sounding violently out of control and dangerous.

The music goes with the theme. The lyrics match the image and it matches the music. Honestly the issue isn't that the genre is violent towards gays. Most gay men want no part of metal. These guys represent another of those groups of guys who used to beat them up, and their aggression is what puts lots of gay men off. A guy interested in Louis Vuitton shoes and frosting his hair isn't going to throw on some combat boots and jump into a pit, that's just how it is. That's WHY metal is good..it's for those who want that aggression and the music feeds that and scares off most people. Why fix what ain't broken? I've never heard a gay guy complain.

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Holy ...., Sean Reinert is gay? I had no idea, he's one of the most creative drummers I can think of though. I had a feeling David Vincent might have been 50/50, I wasn't positive though. I didn't know Doc *RIP* was either.


Really?

Last edited by DrakkarTyrannis; 01-11-2010 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:01 PM   #23
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^ Fair point

I think my biggest thing is, I'm into all kinds of music, metal included, and I tend to look pretty metal (long hair, goatee), so people assume I'm just a standard metalhead, meanwhile I can not, at all, grasp the idea of enjoying being pissed off/negative all the time, or hating other kinds of music.

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Old 01-11-2010, 05:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis View Post
The music goes with the theme. The lyrics match the image and it matches the music. Honestly the issue isn't that the genre is violent towards gays. Most gay men want no part of metal. These guys represent another of those groups of guys who used to beat them up, and their aggression is what puts lots of gay men off. A guy interested in Louis Vuitton shoes and frosting his hair isn't going to throw on some combat boots and jump into a pit, that's just how it is. That's WHY metal is good..it's for those who want that aggression and the music feeds that and scares off most people. Why fix what ain't broken? I've never heard a gay guy complain.





Really?

....Thanks Drakkar..



...I'm certainly aware now
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:01 PM   #25
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Is ridiculous, over the top, chest-beating manliness a requirement of metal?
Are all/most metalheads actually homophobic/sexist?
Am I the only one that finds this completely ridiculous and pathetic?
Probably.
Probably.
No.



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