[7StringofAblicK]

Originally Posted by Drew

No, but we're more than happy to oblige here...

If HB'er ever gets off his ass and sends it over to me, he's contributing a chord theory lesson to our lessons page (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/view.php?pg=lessons). If not, I'll just write one up myself.

I've been meaning to start writing theory lessons, but busy as fuck at work lately...

Sweet. I'd LOVE to get in on it. I took one class in high school, but I don't remember much. I have a scales and modes poster that I practice but I'm not sure if they are in A or G or whatever. I know the frets well and I can move around on the board fine, just can't look and talk about it without saying fret numbers and not actual notes. sucks, been playing for so long and haven't taken the initiative (i hear it's easier to learn when younger anyways).

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by telecaster90

Good post.

What's the deal with... Suspended...

Just to give a little more detail on suspended chords.

Simplest definition of a suspended chord is to replace the 3rd note of a chord with the 2nd or (much more commonly) the 4th note of that scale.

This gives the chord a tense, unresolved feel, hence 'suspending' the feeling of anticipation. (This is an old term from back in the days of counterpoint harmony, music like Vivaldi and Bach, where they used a lot of these 'suspensions' as hanging tones, particularly in cadences, or endings, if you will, of musical passages. Like the famous 'Amen' chorus "AHH-ah-ah-mehhhn.") Play an E major chord, but instead of the g# (3rd string, 1st fret) fret the a (3rd string, 2nd fret). You'll immediately feel/hear that neat sense of pretty, almost melancholy 'tension'. (The note A is the fourth note in the key of E- e, f,g, A, b, c, d, e- hence a sus4 chord!)

As stated, sus chords can be used in major or minor keys, as they are neither- they are harmonically 'neutral' I guess you could say. They make a neat transition from maj to min as well!

[Durero]

Hey folks,
I'm relatively new to the site and I don't know if there's anyone still following this thread but I thought I'd add a little nitpick to Ken's otherwise excellent, concise, and accurate info.

in the list of basic triad chords the half-diminished term only applies to half-diminished 7 chords. a 1-b3-b5 triad is just called diminished.
half-diminished 7 is 1-b3-b5-b7 which distinguishes it from diminished 7 which is 1-b3-b5-bb7.
also half-diminished 7 is called m7b5 in jazz theory.

anyhow, as I said Ken's post is excellent - you sound like a good teacher Metal Ken.

cheers,
Leo

[Leon]

i just read this for the first time. thanks for bumping it, Leo!

[Metal Ken]

Thanks for the bumps and comments.
But.. Which part were you talking about, Leo? The only point which i mentioned half diminished was in usage with the locrian mode. and locrian fits in the m7b5. Is that what you were referring to? i was going to correct it but wasnt sure where it lies.

[Durero]

Hi Ken,
on second read I see that I may have misunderstood your intent on this part:

In C Major, your modes are:

C Ionian - Major
D Dorian - Minor
E Phrygian - Minor
F Lydian - Major
G Mixolydian-Major
A Aeolian - Natural Minor
B Locrian - Half Diminished

I assumed that you meant to list the 7 modes with the basic triad they go with beside them. Like this:

Mode (goes with) Triad

C Ionian - C Major triad
D Dorian - D Minor triad
E Phrygian - E Minor triad
F Lydian - F Major triad
G Mixolydian - G Major triad
A Aeolian - A Minor triad
B Locrian - B Diminished triad

But your mention of half-diminished suggests 7th chords, as in:

C Ionian - Cmaj7
D Dorian - Dm7
E Phrygian - Em7
F Lydian - Fmaj7
G Mixolydian - G7 (G Dominant 7)
A Aeolian - Am7
B Locrian - Bm7b5 (or B half-diminished)

On re-reading your original post I noticed that you listed "A Aeolian - Natural Minor" which suggests you may have intended to list scale qualities/types and not chords. So it's just that list of modes with major/minor listed after them that seems unclear to me.
Hope that's useful.

As I said before, your post is excellent with lots of great info. When I was learning this stuff I found it very useful to read info like this to re-enforce the terminology and scale/chord relationship concepts.
cheers,
Leo

[cvinos]

Nice writeup. I have to say though that I find myself in disagreement with your first sentence. I do not think everything is derived from the major scale. One can certainly think like that, but I don't. And also if you really only look at the major scale itself, you could miss a whole lot of other scales that are not directly related to it. But that should already be clear, and, you could say that things outside the major scale are still derived from it.

Let me add a bit of stuff that is outside the major scale and address some general concepts:

Three important scales that are different from major are:

melodic minor 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, j7
harmonic minor 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, j7
harmonic major 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, b6, j7

These scales can be compared to the major scale. However, they are not necessarily derived from it, say by lowering on or two tones of the major scale. They are separate scales with all their properties. Like they define chords. Each of them has seven modes again. Together with the modes of the major scale this makes 28 different modes already.

Note that harmonic minor and harmonic major not only consist of half-tone and whole-tone steps. They also contain one minor third step between the b6 and the j7.

Just a thought here, you would have a "new" structure if you cannot find an already defined scale that contains your structure. It should be clear that scales with 7 or less then 7 tones can be contained in one of the above scales that have been defined. Or lets say that have been given a name. But there are of course still structures left that are not contained in them. For example picture a scale with five tones like this:

1, b2, 2, b3, 3

The structure here is just four half-tone steps and then a big minor sixth step. The only named scale I can think of right now that contains this structure is the chromatic scale, which does not count here though, because it contains all twelve tones and thus contains all structures, in this sense here.

By the way, I have heard of scales that span two or more octaves.

For more info see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_scale

Note in the wikipedia article there is a distinction mentioned, a distinction made between a scale and a scale type. 'C-major' or 'D-harmonic minor' would be different scales, 'major' or 'harmonic minor' different scale types. Musicians however just call both things scales. In the first case, the keynote and the structure are given (and thereby all contained tones). In the second case, just the structure is given.


Edit: One more thing that my guitar teacher told me and that I also found in a good book:

On the technical side of guitar playing (note this can be applied to other instruments as well), do not start practicing modes without having in mind that they are just a scale started from a specific level. In fact, it is best to just practice the main scales, major, melodic minor, harmonic minor and harmonic major (if we let other scales aside for a moment) in the root mode first (i.e. in Ionian, MM1, HM1 and harmonic-major-1, respectively). Then, when you are firm with these, or one of these, start playing modes by starting the scale at a specific level. Your feeling for the fingering remains the same as with the main scale, you just have the additional information that a specific tone is the keynote or tonal center. This way, you just have to learn four layouts on the fretboard (with several fingerings each for every position on the fretboard though). With only four layouts you be able to play 28 different modes.

[Durero]

terminology question cvinos:
what does the 'j' in j7 stand for?

[cvinos]

j7 = maj7 denotes the interval

[scab]

thanks for the great post.. i was reading it and you said something about phrygian being "egyptian sounding".. so i set out about 2 feet away and grabbed my guitar and i have to say.. it sounds a little egyptian, but i'd like it to sound more like it.. is their any notes to the phrygian scale that i can stress besides the root to make it sound more "egyptian like"??
Thanks Again!!
Scab