[forelander]

that headstock looks almost exactly like my interceptor headstock, cept skinnier. me likee.

[gojira]

Originally Posted by Elysian

but there were still a ton of improvements made by others to the fender concept, others who actually played guitar...

sorry man - but thats just wrong.

steinberger cant play - leo fender cant play - now aside from lespaul - those are two of the biggest innovators around in the last few years. You dont need to be able to play - you just need to know ppl that do.

[bostjan]

What about Floyd Rose? He can't play a lick, either.

[Elysian]

i'm not saying leo fender did not innovate things, of course he did, only a fool would deny that, but his ideas and designs were ultimately improved by other luthiers, which many i'm sure were guitar players themselves. steinberger? i can't say i know of much they did besides those headless guitars, and the carbon reinforced neck, both of which aren't used by much of anyone. and floyd rose's design was also improved upon, and i'm certain that besides just engineers, guitar players helped that happen. maybe even some guitar playing engineers its one thing to know numbers, anyone could make a guitar by numbers, but i can't fathom how hard it would be to setup a truly great playing guitar without knowing a bit about how to play one and what you are looking for when setting it up.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Elysian

i'm not saying leo fender did not innovate things, of course he did, only a fool would deny that, but his ideas and designs were ultimately improved by other luthiers, which many i'm sure were guitar players themselves.

Innovator = historical figure
Improver = historical footnote

What do they call an RG, Soloist, Dinky, C1, Nightswan, M-100, etc? What are you calling your own concept? A SuperStrat, right?

[gojira]

Originally Posted by Elysian

i'm not saying leo fender did not innovate things, of course he did, only a fool would deny that, but his ideas and designs were ultimately improved by other luthiers, which many i'm sure were guitar players themselves. steinberger? i can't say i know of much they did besides those headless guitars, and the carbon reinforced neck, both of which aren't used by much of anyone. and floyd rose's design was also improved upon, and i'm certain that besides just engineers, guitar players helped that happen. maybe even some guitar playing engineers its one thing to know numbers, anyone could make a guitar by numbers, but i can't fathom how hard it would be to setup a truly great playing guitar without knowing a bit about how to play one and what you are looking for when setting it up.

tradition is the bane of innovation, and from what I've seen over the years, many many guitarists aren't prepared to let go of tradition untill they realise how just how silly they've been in the face of progress.

your point was that it seemed silly that non guitarists would want to build guitars - I dont think thats silly at all - as many non musicians have contributed to instrument design as non musicians - just like many many non race car drivers have contributed to race car design. Now i feel you're saying something else - perhaps a little less absolute than before.