[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

Um, hate to contradict you, but this will never work properly on a floating Floyd. Lock the nut all you want, when you tune the other strings up the bridge position changes and the higher(now locked) strings will go flat.

Funny you're contradicting me yet my solution was the only one that actually fixed the problem the guy was having.

And yes I know the tension will change. That's exactly my point and the reason why you have to stop tuning with the tuners and use the fine tuners (after having locked them. Whatever dude, I don't feel I need to defend myself any further on this. It worked for the guy and that's how I was taught and that's how it's always worked and I've owned many floating trem guitars. There's more than one way to skin a cat.


Rev.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

Funny you're contradicting me yet my solution was the only one that actually fixed the problem the guy was having.

And yes I know the tension will change. That's exactly my point and the reason why you have to stop tuning with the tuners and use the fine tuners (after having locked them. Whatever dude, I don't feel I need to defend myself any further on this. It worked for the guy and that's how I was taught and that's how it's always worked and I've owned many floating trem guitars.


Rev.

Fine dude, every guitar with a floyd I've owned, set-up, or fixed, disagrees with you.

Floyd Rose himself as well: http://www.floydrose.com/originaltre...#basic_topic_2

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

Floyd Rose himself as well: http://www.floydrose.com/originaltre...#basic_topic_2

Umm, read my last comment above: "There's more than one way to skin a cat." Like I said, it worked for him so whatever.


Rev.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

That's incorrect. See this is what happens:

A person tunes the first string to tune. Moves on to the next string and tunes it etc. Then when the person is done tuning the last string and goes back to check the first string it's flat again! Gee! Why??? Well because there's less tension being the other strings were brought to tension. So the only string currently in perfect tune is the lowest string. So then the person proceeds to tune the guitar again and the same shit happens. So, by tuning the first two, locking, and tuning the next etc then at the end go back and tune using the Floyd Rose tuners THEN you get it into tune. This is what I learned from a both luthier and guitar teacher many years back. That's how I was taught Floyd's are supposed to be tuned. If you all want to test this go right ahead and tune your guitars like this without locking a single nut. You can almost keep tuning so far that the tremolo will be majorly angled out of the body and it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 5 springs.

Um, I've been tuning Floyd-equipped guitars for YEARS with no problems, man.

By lowest string, I asusme you mean "last string you tuned," correct? Not that it matters, of course.

There is absolutely NO difference in the way a string will go flat as the bridge rises towards neutral with the nut locked, and the way it goes flat as the bridge rises towards neutral with the nut unlocked. It's physically impossible for the nut to make any difference as this happens, as the string going flat is a product of increased string tension as the remaining strings come to tune making the bridge rise, and has absolutely nothing to do with the nut.

Again, the only thing that changes when you lock the nut while tuning is you have to go back and unlock it again when you tune your last string to ptch, go back, and check your low B and find it's gone significantly flat. If your suggestion helped in any manner here, it was solely because starting over again with a detuned guitar is the only way to cure "string shock." I've been doing my own tech work on Floyd-equipped guitars for... six or eight years, I wanna say, and Toshiro's spent rather a long time teching professionally. We both know what we're talking about here - there's absolutely zero correlation between an unlocked nut and having to keep retuning as you gradually bring strings to pitch.

The best way I've found to get a guitar back in tune (if you can't change a single string at a time) is to start with your heaviest string, tune it to pitch, then add your next heaviest string and tune it to pitch, then go back and check your first one. Adjust until both strings are in tune, then add your third string and retune, and continue up the neck this way. Rich Harris's suggestion to start with the bass string quite a ways sharp and gradually tune towards pitch as you add strings (on a 7, start with your B around D-ish, and taper down until you're stringing up the high E to pitch) is good too, if you're in a hurry.

I can't stress strongly enough, though, that locking the nut as you go will not keep the wound strings from shifting pitch as the bridge rises towards neutral, and is counterproductive as you have to go back and unlock it to retune when you have all seven strings on. I'm sorry to have to directly contradict you, bro, but it's just bad advice.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

Umm, read my last comment above: "There's more than one way to skin a cat." Like I said, it worked for him so whatever.


Rev.

Why it worked:

There is also the phenomenon of string shock where while tuning the whole bridge just keeps raising and raising, this touches on it somewhat.

Ibanez' instructions on tuning [picking up after the instructions for changing strings] typed verbatim from the Ibanez "How to tune your floating tremolo system"

"There is a trick to it at this stage. With both non-tremolo and 'vintage' tremolo guitars you can bring each string to pitch independently of the other strings. This is not so with a floating tremolo! Though each saddle is separate from the others, they are all mounted together on a single, large plate. In order to get your strings evenly in tune, you will need to tune in "stages". What we mean by this is this: start with the low E string. Turn the tuner until the string is no longer slack, and then move on to the A string. Do this with all the strings. Remember, you're not trying to achieve any type of tuning yet - you're just pulling up all the slack. After this is done, begin with the low E again, and turn the tuner about half a turn, then move to the A string. Do this to all the strings. Then repeat it. Check yourself with a tuner. Eventually, you will get close to being in tune. When everything is close, go ahead and finesse your tuners so they are in tune. *Why is this lengthy process necessary,* you might ask, *and why can't I just tune normally?* Good question! The answer is that attempting to tune "normally" will result in a tremolo unit that has pulled up from the body to such an extent that the action is now about half an inch high, and totally unplayable. Doing it this way will keep your action low and tremolo in the right place."

Again, ultimately the fact it worked is what's important here, but it worked because you had him tune to slack before doing anything else, not becase of the nut. Locking the nut while in the middle of tuning is just bad advice.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by Drew

Locking the nut while in the middle of tuning is just bad advice.

Thank you. Too bad I suck at explaining things.

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

That's incorrect. See this is what happens:

A person tunes the first string to tune. Moves on to the next string and tunes it etc. Then when the person is done tuning the last string and goes back to check the first string it's flat again! Gee! Why??? Well because there's less tension being the other strings were brought to tension. So the only string currently in perfect tune is the lowest string. So then the person proceeds to tune the guitar again and the same shit happens. So, by tuning the first two, locking, and tuning the next etc then at the end go back and tune using the Floyd Rose tuners THEN you get it into tune. This is what I learned from a both luthier and guitar teacher many years back. That's how I was taught Floyd's are supposed to be tuned. If you all want to test this go right ahead and tune your guitars like this without locking a single nut. You can almost keep tuning so far that the tremolo will be majorly angled out of the body and it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 5 springs..

Actually, when i first got my 1077, i got tired of adjusting things and tried to do what you do, just to get it in tune real quick... Didnt work, But anyway...
I got the thing in tune for a while, but i kept having to adjust it. And it kept riding up, and i had the adjustment screws all the way down.. Then i slacked that, unlocked the nuts and tuned it the right way. Then it was fine, and i had wished i had done that in the first place.

Point being, when a string is in tune, its at a certain pitch. that pitch is brought on by tension on the string. It doesnt matter which end of the string the tension comes from, its still ON the string. so the bridge will be affected either way.
As an aside, the best way to tune a floyd guitar, in my experience is to first get tension on all the strings, then tune from the outside in, alternating (High e, low B, High B, Low E, G, A, D and then repeat)

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

As an aside, the best way to tune a floyd guitar, in my experience is to first get tension on all the strings, then tune from the outside in, alternating (High e, low B, High B, Low E, G, A, D and then repeat)

Interesting... I'll give it a try sometime.

[Dangerman]

TheRiverDragon, did you get advice from Mayzan?
I've had the same problem with my regular 2027, .010's and 3 springs, until I put in two additional springs. Made me wonder a lot back then since the attatchment for the springs wasn't equipped for any additional springs.