[Mucus Membrane]

OK..... my first post on these boards (don't know how I've missed it all these years!)

and I want to bring up a question that's been posed over and over again I'm sure.... but I wanted to relate my findings.

I went to the KxK booth at NAMM this year and we talked for awhile about scale length and how that will affect the muddieness of the low B on a 7 string (or when tuning down a 6 string to B for that matter). The theory seemed sound to me so when I got back from Anaheim I measured my two custom GMW Guitarworks 7 string guitars assuming I'd find a 25.5" scale length or greater (I bought these guitars off a friend of mine who quit playing metal a couple of years ago and he didn't remember the exact specs). First let me say that these two guitars play and sound better than any 6 or 7 string guitar I've ever played. The low end is especially tight, crunchy, and articulate and totally crushes through my Engl head. Playing speedy death metal riffs on the low B stand out as well as playing barre chords on the 7th fret of the A string.
However, when I got home and measured the scale length, to my shock both guitars are 24.75", but they still sound just as good if not better than 7s I've played with the longer scale length. This leads me to believe that the quality of the guitar craftmanship (both of the GMWs are hand made) has as much to do with the clarity of the low end as does the scale length (if not more so).

For reference I also own a Jackson KE7R and an Epiphone 7 Korina Flying V re-issue.... both are 24.75" and both have a muddier low end than the GWMs.

I'd be curious to hear what everyone else has experienced. Is this just an anomaly that these two guitars don't suffer as most 24.75" ones do?

[nyck]

I think it really depends on the pickups, EQ, and amp. i don't know about scale length but as long as the strings are decently tight and not floppy then i don't think the scale length would matter much.

[Mucus Membrane]

Originally Posted by nyck

I think it really depends on the pickups, EQ, and amp. i don't know about scale length but as long as the strings are decently tight and not floppy then i don't think the scale length would matter much.

Well, the problem is that when I compare my Epiphone which has the same scale length and same pickups as one of my GMWs it sounds much different (through the same amp and effects). I think the type of wood and how the instrument is constructed actually affects the tone quite a bit.

[Karl Hungus]

I think scale lenth does affect tone quite a lot in my experience, as when a string is looser I find it sounds muddier, yet when there's a higher tension it can sound a lot sharper and has more bite.

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by Mucus Membrane

OK..... my first post on these boards (don't know how I've missed it all these years!)

and I want to bring up a question that's been posed over and over again I'm sure.... but I wanted to relate my findings.

I went to the KxK booth at NAMM this year and we talked for awhile about scale length and how that will affect the muddieness of the low B on a 7 string (or when tuning down a 6 string to B for that matter). The theory seemed sound to me so when I got back from Anaheim I measured my two custom GMW Guitarworks 7 string guitars assuming I'd find a 25.5" scale length or greater (I bought these guitars off a friend of mine who quit playing metal a couple of years ago and he didn't remember the exact specs). First let me say that these two guitars play and sound better than any 6 or 7 string guitar I've ever played. The low end is especially tight, crunchy, and articulate and totally crushes through my Engl head. Playing speedy death metal riffs on the low B stand out as well as playing barre chords on the 7th fret of the A string.
However, when I got home and measured the scale length, to my shock both guitars are 24.75", but they still sound just as good if not better than 7s I've played with the longer scale length. This leads me to believe that the quality of the guitar craftmanship (both of the GMWs are hand made) has as much to do with the clarity of the low end as does the scale length (if not more so).

For reference I also own a Jackson KE7R and an Epiphone 7 Korina Flying V re-issue.... both are 24.75" and both have a muddier low end than the GWMs.

I'd be curious to hear what everyone else has experienced. Is this just an anomaly that these two guitars don't suffer as most 24.75" ones do?

It'll effect your intonation, that is how In-tune your guitar is. It'll play better, and sound better, but is your 15th fret in tune?

[Vince]

The scale length is found by multiplying the length between the nut and 12th fret by two. Usually, if you just take a tape measure to a guitar, you'll find it to be between 24.75" to 25.25", depending on the guitar. The distance from nut to 12th fret should always be 12.75", which when multiplied x2 equals 25.5". Any less than that and your guitar isn't set to the fender standard.

[dpm]

My old Carvin 6 was an incredibly tight sounding guitar. It was maple neck through maple body, but only 25" scale. IMO the muddiness you're talking about comes mostly from material choice and construction.
What are your GWM's made of?
Woods like Korina and Basswood absorb the 'definition' frequencies.
Maple, hard Ash, Padauk, Bubinga etc. are much more dense and don't absorb those vibrations as well, instead forcing them back into the strings to be read by the pickup.

Your Engl is a very defined amp btw, ideal for what you play

[Papa Shank]

scale length is just one contributing factor, hardware, tonewood, nech joint and build quality all contribute.

[Mucus Membrane]

Originally Posted by HateBreeder

It'll effect your intonation, that is how In-tune your guitar is. It'll play better, and sound better, but is your 15th fret in tune?

Oh yeah.... absolutely. The intonation on both guitars seems fine. Granted, I didn't put them on an oscilliscope, but using the open string/12th fret method the intonation has been perfect the entire time I've owned the guitars.

[Mucus Membrane]

Originally Posted by desertdweller

The scale length is found by multiplying the length between the nut and 12th fret by two. Usually, if you just take a tape measure to a guitar, you'll find it to be between 24.75" to 25.25", depending on the guitar. The distance from nut to 12th fret should always be 12.75", which when multiplied x2 equals 25.5". Any less than that and your guitar isn't set to the fender standard.

That's interesting, I've never heard that all guitars should be 12.75" to the 12th fret. Nor that the way you measure scale length is to do it the way you're suggesting. Also, I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "Fender Standard" and how that is relevant. I don't think fender has ever made a 7 string or barritone guitar have they? I mention this only because the standard you're referring to may be for 6 string guitars but not apply well to 7 string guitars.

I'll have to do some more research on this as there seem to be differing opinions. Anyone know any guitar luthiers personally? The guy who runs and builds KxK guitars is who I got most of my info from. Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about? I dunno?