FYI - available Blackmachine B7 at the BM site

[sakeido]

i don't get why you'd ever take a nice guitar on the road unless its to stroke your own ego.

my $4k suhr sits at home always and is never gigged. I take my MIJ Jacksons to shows.. they were <$1k each new, but then I got a top dollar setup done so now they play equally as well as suhr. the tone is not totally the same but live the guitar is one of the smallest factors in how you are going to sound. amp, cab, and the sound guy play way more of a role. who knows tho maybe if he recognized the blackmachine, he'd put a bit more effort into setting you up so he can hear it sing.

why risk an expensive custom instrument when a normal guitar gets the job done just as well? its impossible to really say tho. I spend so much time playing my Jacksons I have way more of an emotional attachment to them than I do to my suhr.

[SirMyghin]

Originally Posted by sakeido

i don't get why you'd ever take a nice guitar on the road unless its to stroke your own ego.

To contrast that, why would you ever buy a guitar you are afraid to take outside your home? Now, I don't currently gig, but the value of my instrument has never made me say 'well, I guess this is too nice to take outside the house and use'. They are instruments, tool, value regardless you bring your favourite tools with you when you go to put on a great show. It is not an ego thing in the slightest, it is about bringing your best, and whatever makes that possible.

Guitars are replaceable, results are not.

[TemjinStrife]

I gig with every instrument I own, from a $2000 cello and $2000 Dingwall to a $100 Squier '51.

[Stealthdjentstic]

Originally Posted by TemjinStrife

I gig with every instrument I own, from a $2000 cello and $2000 Dingwall to a $100 Squier '51.

Don't you transit everywhere? I'm so incredibly paranoid of smashing the headstock somehow whenever I leave the house with a guitar. It's just kind of nice being wayyy less stressed knowing that if my $200 ibanez ends up with a ....ed neck I can buy one off here/ebay/CL for like 100 bucks and have it working as good as new...whereas if I ....ed up something even like my Loomis I'd be screwed because it's set neck.

Maybe you guys just don't get really stressed over things that probably wont happen anyways

[USMarine75]

Depends on sentimental attachment and replaceability...

eg.

I would tour with an EVH guitar, but not a 1997 Peavey Wolfgang Standard quilt top...

I would tour with an EBMM JPX, but not a 90's Ibanez JPM...

I would tour with a Blackmachine B7... no, wait... no I wouldn't... because I'll never own one...

[th3m1ke]

Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic

Don't you transit everywhere? I'm so incredibly paranoid of smashing the headstock somehow whenever I leave the house with a guitar. It's just kind of nice being wayyy less stressed knowing that if my $200 ibanez ends up with a ....ed neck I can buy one off here/ebay/CL for like 100 bucks and have it working as good as new...whereas if I ....ed up something even like my Loomis I'd be screwed because it's set neck.

Maybe you guys just don't get really stressed over things that probably wont happen anyways

Uh - Hardshell cases?

[Fred the Shred]

Originally Posted by sakeido

i don't get why you'd ever take a nice guitar on the road unless its to stroke your own ego.

Or maybe, just MAYBE I prefer to, you know, get the tone I like from the instruments I like. I don't need to "stroke my own ego" with guitars of any description, thank you.

[JoeyBTL]

If I spent that much on a guitar I would damn sure want to play the best one I have at shows. Sure I'd be afraid of something happening but my favorite guitar makes me want to play even better so I could only imagine how good it would feel to play a black machine all the time.

Anyone remember the video of that famous violinist playing in the subway or whatever as a bum. Wasn't his violin worth 7 figures? If it was then things could have gone very wrong playing around random people like that but I bet he chose to play that one for a reason, not just because of how much it costs.

[JaeSwift]

Funny enough I used Black Machine as an example in my Brand Management minor. He did (and is doing) a great job with his brand, he deserves whatever he can get for that guitar.

[Xaios]

Made this for the meme thread a while back:

[Hollowway]

Yeah, all joking aside, I think it's awesome that Doug can get that much for his guitars. People will pay thousands of dollars for a fancy wood chair, why not a guitar? No reason guitars shouldn't command a high value. Even if I won't pay it.

[JP Universe]

Originally Posted by USMarine75

Depends on sentimental attachment and replaceability...

eg.

I would tour with an EVH guitar, but not a 1997 Peavey Wolfgang Standard quilt top...

I would tour with an EBMM JPX, but not a 90's Ibanez JPM...

I would tour with a Blackmachine B7... no, wait... no I wouldn't... because I'll never own one...

This

[sakeido]

Originally Posted by Fred the Shred

Or maybe, just MAYBE I prefer to, you know, get the tone I like from the instruments I like. I don't need to "stroke my own ego" with guitars of any description, thank you.

you can get the tone you like from a lot of different instruments because it has more to do with the player than the axe. you playing a guitar with similar body woods to the BM with the same pickups will sound so close to the blackmachine it makes no difference. your audience sure as hell won't be able to tell. if you need to play an extremely expensive and irreplacable instrument live just so you can put on the best possible show...

Originally Posted by SirMyghin

To contrast that, why would you ever buy a guitar you are afraid to take outside your home? Now, I don't currently gig, but the value of my instrument has never made me say 'well, I guess this is too nice to take outside the house and use'. They are instruments, tool, value regardless you bring your favourite tools with you when you go to put on a great show. It is not an ego thing in the slightest, it is about bringing your best, and whatever makes that possible.

Guitars are replaceable, results are not.

its a tool I use for recording, when the emphasis is on tone and I have the tools I need to bring out the right character in a guitar for a song. live, when the sound is pretty much a crapshoot and its more about the performance anyway? I'd rather take a guitar that sounds close enough and is light on my shoulders.

Originally Posted by JoeyBTL

If I spent that much on a guitar I would damn sure want to play the best one I have at shows. Sure I'd be afraid of something happening but my favorite guitar makes me want to play even better so I could only imagine how good it would feel to play a black machine all the time.

Anyone remember the video of that famous violinist playing in the subway or whatever as a bum. Wasn't his violin worth 7 figures? If it was then things could have gone very wrong playing around random people like that but I bet he chose to play that one for a reason, not just because of how much it costs.

there was a big article that went along with that video. They put that guy in the subway with that violin to see if anybody would recognize he was playing one of the world's most valuable instruments (nobody did) or that he was one of the world's premier violinists (no luck there either). Maybe a guy as talented as him on such a nice instrument would make more than an average busker or at least get an crowd of people watching? Nope.

[Randy]

The mood and mojo of playing is just important to some people as the tone and specs of the guitar they're playing. You can copy the wood, you can copy the dimensions but you can't exactly copy the mojo. That's a component that's important to some people more than others.

[sakeido]

Originally Posted by Randy

The mood and mojo of playing is just important to some people as the tone and specs of the guitar they're playing. You can copy the wood, you can copy the dimensions but you can't exactly copy the mojo. That's a component that's important to some people more than others.

if your technique is so developed you can shred like crazy and put out a bunch of instrumentals featuring your playing, I don't think mojo should be a problem

[Danukenator]

Originally Posted by sakeido

you can get the tone you like from a lot of different instruments because it has more to do with the player than the axe. you playing a guitar with similar body woods to the BM with the same pickups will sound so close to the blackmachine it makes no difference. your audience sure as hell won't be able to tell. if you need to play an extremely expensive and irreplacable instrument live just so you can put on the best possible show...

You hit the nail on the head with every point, but in regards to this, I was going to make picture of "Watch Out, We've got Eric Johnson over here."

It is true that in a live setting there are a thousand more factors. I love being as close to the stage as possible, so I hear very little of the full mix.

Unless your dead center near the sound guy, it will always sound a little off.

The guitar's actual tone will become much less important. Provided you had two guitars that are the same in specs. For example A Suhr with the same woods as a Fender. There won't be much of a difference. Provided both had a pro setup, they won't feel miles appart.

Take that example in the studio, it will be a different story.

I guess if people want to risk taking a really valuable insturment on the road because it has more mojo () then that's up to them.

I will grant that if you are doing smaller clinics or such, as I've seen Fred do, I would believe the difference is more notable. At a small clinic it is also less likely to get nabbed/damaged. So, I suppose it is all about the scale of where you are playing.

EDIT: To clarify the mojo eyeroll, as people see to have taken it as some sort of personal attack, I dislike the term mojo along with similar terms or phrases like "fast neck". They are indefinable or very personal things that aren't clear to people that haven't heard or felt the same thing. I wasn't denying there was something special about the guitar nor saying a guitar couldn't have some quality that just made it the bomb. I was trying to express my dislike for the term itself, admittedly this was a case of me thinking something but not expressing it in writing. I apologize if I offended someone or appeared condesending.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Danukenator

mojo ()

I used to play in a regional touring band and what guitar I just liked playing more totally topped my list of what I brought with me when I played. So, with all due respect, .... your smugness and go roll your eyes at someone else.

The whole thread has drifted so far off topic and so personal that I'm about one annoying post away from locking this down and handing out a few bans.

[0 Xero 0]

Regardless of mojo or differences in timbre between instruments, I'm pretty sure Fred, Nolly, Pin, Dez, Leah, or any other people who play BMs live do it to satisfy their egos. They play the guitars because they like them and those are their choices. If you can convince me that every single one of the people who play BMs live do it to stroke their egos, especially considering most people who play BMs play some form of metal which isn't mainstream and doesn't get much exposure (i.e. less ego-stroking possibilities than playing pop or rock), be my guest.

Example - Suppose you excavate lawns to allow people to install swimming pools. You could use a spade or a shovel. Both of these tools would get the job done equally well. The spade would take an immense amount of time and the shovel would still take a while. Or, you could use a backhoe or a trackhoe. The tractors are better tools for the job because it saves time and accomplishes the same task. If the players I mentioned choose to use a Blackmachine live, they probably do so because it will accomplish the task they need better than "X" guitar.

[narad]

Originally Posted by 0 Xero 0

Example - Suppose you excavate lawns to allow people to install swimming pools. You could use a spade or a shovel. Both of these tools would get the job done equally well. The spade would take an immense amount of time and the shovel would still take a while. Or, you could use a backhoe or a trackhoe. The tractors are better tools for the job because it saves time and accomplishes the same task. If the players I mentioned choose to use a Blackmachine live, they probably do so because it will accomplish the task they need better than "X" guitar.

Ha, this analogy is about as illuminating as a shovel, spade, or backhoe.

[SirMyghin]

Originally Posted by sakeido

if your technique is so developed you can shred like crazy and put out a bunch of instrumentals featuring your playing, I don't think mojo should be a problem

That is a pretty silly thing to say. The last guitar I purchased, I didn't even plug in. I didn't have to. When I held it and played it, unplugged (to make sure I was focusing on the guitar itself), it was time to put the dollars down regardless of the pickups. It was there, you can't say that for every instrument around. Skills are quite irrelevant. There are many comfortable chairs in the world, and many different types of beds. Why not go with the most comfortable, the most suitable TO YOU, every time?

You get used to your tools, and you bond with them heavily. You mentioned a strong emotional attachment to your jap jacksons, that plays a factor. You aren't going to put down the instrument you wrote and recorded everything on, which makes it most comfortable for this work, just because it is expensive and you are being a wimp worried about it getting damaged. Scars tell stories, every instrument should have some. They are tools, not museum pieces, regardless of price or spec.

Why continue to make BS excuses because you are afraid to get a dent or a scratch? Just admit that part and move on. If a guitar doesn't have at least one dent, it hasn't been given enough air. Better bubble wrap them even playing at home, just to be safe.

[Quitty]

Originally Posted by Fred the Shred

Or maybe, just MAYBE I prefer to, you know, get the tone I like from the instruments I like. I don't need to "stroke my own ego" with guitars of any description, thank you.

I understand your resentment, but you have to admit there's something to it.
I understand that you seem to feel more confident with your gear than other musicians i've met, or the occasional layman that imagines being on tour (and i envy you for that) -
but for someone who invests this amount of money into an instrument, i'd be scared too.
Even if they are meant to be played, do you really think these guitars are priced to be played? Does their availability encourage bringing them up on shows?
If you crack your Blackmachine's headstock or have it stolen, might i assume there's a good chance you'll get another?
And pay for it, of course - but at the end of the day, have a Blackmachine?

Originally Posted by Randy

The whole thread has drifted so far off topic and so personal that I'm about one annoying post away from locking this down and handing out a few bans.

That seems a bit much... using catch-phrases like 'mojo' will usually bring about the occasional ass that thinks you're practicing tai-chi on stage.
Regardless, yours is the only point i can actually empathize with. It just takes a great amount of balls to bring onstage something you'll probably never have a replacement for.

[UnderTheSign]

Well, this just in, from now on everyone in big bands, orchestras, ensembles or whatever other form of musical group should only play cheaper, less valuable instruments because they'll sound the same anyway.
Yes dear Stradivarius players, that means your precious violin should only be used for bedroom heroism - the audience won't notice anyway, and you definitely won't feel the difference because there is no mojo, just a well set-up instrument.

[Necris]

I personally can think of plenty of ways to "stroke my own ego" that don't require a $4000+ guitar to be put in harms way so I doubt ego stroking has much to do with choosing to take an expensive instrument on tour.
If I spend the money to buy the best and most well made tool to suit my needs, it's going to be used frequently for the jobs it was created to do not sit on a shelf/wall-hanger/in a case while I use other similar tools that are almost as good since it's a waste of my money.

[0 Xero 0]

Originally Posted by narad

Ha, this analogy is about as illuminating as a shovel, spade, or backhoe.

Edit: UnderTheSign beat me to the Stradivarius comment. Yo-Yo Ma will be so sad to hear this...

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by Randy

The mood and mojo of playing is just important to some people as the tone and specs of the guitar they're playing. You can copy the wood, you can copy the dimensions but you can't exactly copy the mojo. That's a component that's important to some people more than others.

Agreed. And why wouldn't you play what you want live just as you would at home? Once the $$$ exchanges hands and I have the guitar its monetary value is no longer a thought in my mind, thus to play it vs any cheaper axe in my arsenal is really of no consequence. It's more about playing the axe I feel like playing. The only way I could possibly see it being about ego is if you left the price tag on the guitar. The people in the crowd probably already assume your guitar is expensive anyway... That or they don't care.