History of seven-string solidbodies

voxhumana · 02-17-2011, 10:45 PM

Dear all

I'm not a seven-string player. I am however a senior editor at Wikipedia, (see User:Manning Bartlett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

We've been having a problem there with an individual who is presenting a very specific account of the history of seven-string guitars. I am polling the members of this community to see if there is any general support for this person's account of events.

The person is named Alex Gregory, and he (or an ardent fan/associate) has been constantly revising any page that mentions a seven-string guitar with the claim that he is the "inventor" of this instrument. Occasionally this claim is qualified as only referring to solidbody versions.

I have thus far been able to independently verify that Mr Gregory did have an agreement with Fender in 1987 to produce a prototype solidbody seven string. (See The Fender Stratocaster - Google Books) Two or three prototypes were made, but the guitar never went into production.

It is also a fact that Mr Gregory has been issued a number of patents for seven string guitar design, and as a result he claims this proves he "invented" the concept. However my own review of the patents indicates that they have been issued for specific design parameters of the instruments, and not for the seven-string concept in general.

What I have not been able to find is
(a) an independent resource (eg.reputable magazine/journal) that substantiates Mr Gregory's claims or
(b) evidence of a solidbody seven-string that predates 1987 which would invalidate his claiim.

If anyone can assist me in providing (or pointing me in the direction of) evidence of either case, I would be grateful.

For general interest, we have thus far been able to refute several other of Alex Gregory's claims.
1 - His website and his artist profile at Fender indicates he studied classical composition at the University of Milan. However this university does not have (and has never had) a music faculty.

2 - He claims to have been granted the title "Maestro" by either Queen Elizabeth II or by the British Government. This is patently false. "Maestro" is not an official title and no such title has ever been awarded by any British institution. Our investigation has established only that Alex Gregory applied for and received permission to have the title Maestro added to his passport. It is also possible (but unproven) that he may have legally changed his name to this effect. This is not of any particular significance however. Any British citizen is free to also do this, as the title "maestro" is an unofficial and hence unprotected title (in contrast to formally protected titles such as 'Doctor', 'Professor', 'Justice', etc).

Again, thanks in advance for any assistance people may be able to provide.

Kevan · 02-17-2011, 11:05 PM

GEORGE VAN EPS

George Van Eps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

voxhumana · 02-17-2011, 11:08 PM

Sorry I should have mentioned that. We're well aware that George Van Eps commissioned Epiphone to build a seven-string archtop electric guitar in 1938, which refutes the statement that Gregory "invented" the seven-string electric.

My question above specifically relates to solidbody seven-strings.

envenomedcky · 02-17-2011, 11:10 PM

Well it is known that Steve Vai used a prototype Ibanez Universe 7 string on the Whitesnake album "Slip of the Tongue", which was released in 1989. I will try to find more info on when he had the guitar built.

Nazca · 02-17-2011, 11:24 PM

I thought it was Steve Vai, but then I heard about this person named Lenny Breau had invented it first. I may be wrong.

envenomedcky · 02-17-2011, 11:30 PM

Builder Profile: Kirk Sand Guitars - Premier Guitar

Kirk Sand Guitars invented the solid body 7 string electric guitar in 1982 or 1983 for Lenny Breau. The guitar had a 22.75 inch scale and a solid mahogany body.

voxhumana · 02-17-2011, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazca

I thought it was Steve Vai, but then I heard about this person named Lenny Breau had invented it first. I may be wrong.

Bingo - that name was all I needed. I googled his name and immediately found this: "Lenny Breau Remembered" By Jim Ferguson

This is from a reliable source (which Wikipedia requires) and although the article doesn't give an exact year, it can be deduced from the text that the instrument was built somewhere between 1979 and 1984.

Hugely appreciated.

voxhumana · 02-17-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envenomedcky

Builder Profile: Kirk Sand Guitars - Premier Guitar

Kirk Sand Guitars invented the solid body 7 string electric guitar in 1982 or 1983 for Lenny Breau. The guitar had a 22.75 inch scale and a solid mahogany body.

I hadn't seen this when I posted my previous comment, but a huge thank you as well. That's pretty conclusive evidence.

voxhumana · 02-17-2011, 11:58 PM

I've now revised the Wikipedia article, thank you for your invaluable assistance.
Seven-string guitar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

groph · 02-18-2011, 12:16 AM

I can't contribute anything useful to the history, but it is great to see someone from Wikipedia (by far one of the best things on the Internet) coming here for information. You've probably come to the right place. Thank you and the rest of Wikipedia for providing us with the greatest way to kill 4 or 5 hours by endlessly clicking through links to different articles!

voxhumana · 02-18-2011, 12:33 AM

Gee let me think this through. An article on seven-string guitars. A forum called "sevenstring.org".

Yes I know, it's amazing how brilliantly I put these things together. It's a gift really.

<grin>

(In all seriousness, I came here fully expecting that this community would be able to sort the matter out. Even so, I was still amazed at the speed at which it happened).

mountainjam · 02-18-2011, 01:50 AM

Hey that's awesome. I love wikipedia. Very glad you guys are keeping the facts straight!

The Munk · 02-18-2011, 02:29 AM

Cool thread!

Rook · 02-18-2011, 10:37 AM

Awesome

13point9 · 02-18-2011, 11:09 AM

Awesome stuff

always amazes me how influential this forum is sometimes...

Make sure to comeback anytime there is a question about the various fields discussed here OP

Nazca · 02-18-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxhumana

Bingo - that name was all I needed. I googled his name and immediately found this: "Lenny Breau Remembered" By Jim Ferguson

This is from a reliable source (which Wikipedia requires) and although the article doesn't give an exact year, it can be deduced from the text that the instrument was built somewhere between 1979 and 1984.

Hugely appreciated.

Hey, no worries

. Always like to be involved.

asmegin_slayer · 02-18-2011, 11:29 AM

Here is the video of that guitar!

Herrick · 02-18-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Munk

Cool thread!

Agreed. It's like a movie where a private investigator seeks the experts' opinion

Anthony · 02-18-2011, 07:17 PM

I'm glad this worked out, the less people that know about Alex Gregory, the better.

WickedSymphony · 02-18-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herrick

Agreed. It's like a movie where a private investigator seeks the experts' opinion

And instead he came to us.

littlephil · 02-18-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazca

I thought it was Steve Vai, but then I heard about this person named Lenny Breau had invented it first. I may be wrong.

I remember hearing Vai talking about the creation of the Universe (

) and he mentioned that someone at Ibanez had an 8 string way back then.
Of topic, but pretty cool nonetheless (if its true)

Stealthdjentstic · 02-18-2011, 10:00 PM

The "maestro" is the biggest douche ever, just ban his IP.

Coffee Elf · 02-18-2011, 10:17 PM

What a great thread. Stuff like this is why I love the intarwebs.

Kr1zalid · 02-18-2011, 11:56 PM

Just read the Wiki article...

Feels like better than the last one...

ShadyDavey · 02-19-2011, 10:51 AM

In the interests of total accuracy it's worthwhile mentioning that Uli Jon Roth uses a 7-string solidbody and has done since the mid 80's - it's extremely difficult to actually attach a precise chronology to his Sky Guitars (and indeed, I haven't seen an exact date to my knowledge) but he has noted in interviews that Steve Vai played a seven-string variant Sky Guitar prior to the release of the Ibanez Universe - it's uncertain if he felt that Steve was influenced by him but whilst far from a major artist his involvement seems to be worth mentioning

	sevenstring guitars		sevenstring registry		photo gallery		subscription		spy

02-17-2011, 10:45 PM	#1
voxhumana Invented the guitar. Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42 Thanked: 63 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	History of seven-string solidbodies Dear all I'm not a seven-string player. I am however a senior editor at Wikipedia, (see User:Manning Bartlett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). We've been having a problem there with an individual who is presenting a very specific account of the history of seven-string guitars. I am polling the members of this community to see if there is any general support for this person's account of events. The person is named Alex Gregory, and he (or an ardent fan/associate) has been constantly revising any page that mentions a seven-string guitar with the claim that he is the "inventor" of this instrument. Occasionally this claim is qualified as only referring to solidbody versions. I have thus far been able to independently verify that Mr Gregory did have an agreement with Fender in 1987 to produce a prototype solidbody seven string. (See The Fender Stratocaster - Google Books) Two or three prototypes were made, but the guitar never went into production. It is also a fact that Mr Gregory has been issued a number of patents for seven string guitar design, and as a result he claims this proves he "invented" the concept. However my own review of the patents indicates that they have been issued for specific design parameters of the instruments, and not for the seven-string concept in general. What I have not been able to find is (a) an independent resource (eg.reputable magazine/journal) that substantiates Mr Gregory's claims or (b) evidence of a solidbody seven-string that predates 1987 which would invalidate his claiim. If anyone can assist me in providing (or pointing me in the direction of) evidence of either case, I would be grateful. For general interest, we have thus far been able to refute several other of Alex Gregory's claims. 1 - His website and his artist profile at Fender indicates he studied classical composition at the University of Milan. However this university does not have (and has never had) a music faculty. 2 - He claims to have been granted the title "Maestro" by either Queen Elizabeth II or by the British Government. This is patently false. "Maestro" is not an official title and no such title has ever been awarded by any British institution. Our investigation has established only that Alex Gregory applied for and received permission to have the title Maestro added to his passport. It is also possible (but unproven) that he may have legally changed his name to this effect. This is not of any particular significance however. Any British citizen is free to also do this, as the title "maestro" is an unofficial and hence unprotected title (in contrast to formally protected titles such as 'Doctor', 'Professor', 'Justice', etc). Again, thanks in advance for any assistance people may be able to provide. elrrek, TheHandOfStone, Deadseen and 4 others like this.

02-17-2011, 11:05 PM	#2
Kevan The Tremol-No Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,844 Thanked: 37 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	GEORGE VAN EPS George Van Eps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "Thank YOU, Jim Day!"

02-17-2011, 11:10 PM	#4
envenomedcky ss.org Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,562 Thanked: 40 $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Well it is known that Steve Vai used a prototype Ibanez Universe 7 string on the Whitesnake album "Slip of the Tongue", which was released in 1989. I will try to find more info on when he had the guitar built. www.facebook.com/theacaciastrain

02-17-2011, 11:30 PM	#6
envenomedcky ss.org Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,562 Thanked: 40 $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $envenomedcky is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Builder Profile: Kirk Sand Guitars - Premier Guitar Kirk Sand Guitars invented the solid body 7 string electric guitar in 1982 or 1983 for Lenny Breau. The guitar had a 22.75 inch scale and a solid mahogany body. www.facebook.com/theacaciastrain

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02-17-2011, 11:08 PM	#3
voxhumana Invented the guitar. Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42 Thanked: 63 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Sorry I should have mentioned that. We're well aware that George Van Eps commissioned Epiphone to build a seven-string archtop electric guitar in 1938, which refutes the statement that Gregory "invented" the seven-string electric. My question above specifically relates to solidbody seven-strings.

02-17-2011, 11:24 PM	#5
Nazca SS.org Regular Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cheshire Posts: 204 Thanked: 6 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I thought it was Steve Vai, but then I heard about this person named Lenny Breau had invented it first. I may be wrong.

02-17-2011, 11:58 PM	#9
voxhumana Invented the guitar. Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42 Thanked: 63 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I've now revised the Wikipedia article, thank you for your invaluable assistance. Seven-string guitar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

02-18-2011, 12:16 AM	#10
groph surrounded by chairs Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 2,398 Thanked: 57 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I can't contribute anything useful to the history, but it is great to see someone from Wikipedia (by far one of the best things on the Internet) coming here for information. You've probably come to the right place. Thank you and the rest of Wikipedia for providing us with the greatest way to kill 4 or 5 hours by endlessly clicking through links to different articles! srouth1960 and Frostee like this.

02-18-2011, 12:33 AM	#11
voxhumana Invented the guitar. Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42 Thanked: 63 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Gee let me think this through. An article on seven-string guitars. A forum called "sevenstring.org". Yes I know, it's amazing how brilliantly I put these things together. It's a gift really. <grin> (In all seriousness, I came here fully expecting that this community would be able to sort the matter out. Even so, I was still amazed at the speed at which it happened).

02-18-2011, 01:50 AM	#12
mountainjam SS.org Regular Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: norcal Posts: 1,622 Thanked: 34 Feedback Score: 15 reviews	Hey that's awesome. I love wikipedia. Very glad you guys are keeping the facts straight!

02-18-2011, 02:29 AM	#13
The Munk SS.org Regular Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SF Bay area Posts: 260 Thanked: 22 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Cool thread!

02-18-2011, 10:37 AM	#14
Rook Electrifying Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: London Posts: 7,352 Thanked: 108 Feedback Score: 18 reviews	Awesome Formerly known as Fun111, don't be thrown off by the avatar!!!!!! My Soundcloud My project on Facebook: Rook

02-18-2011, 11:09 AM	#15
13point9 Now with Less Hair! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 1,874 Thanked: 66 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Awesome stuff always amazes me how influential this forum is sometimes... Make sure to comeback anytime there is a question about the various fields discussed here OP "I won't be satisfied until somebody can whammy a whole piano." Pink Freud ".... that, I'd rather eat 20 pounds of steak and then prove how jacked I am by having angry sex with their mothers whilst curling 200 pounds and drinking ale." maliciousteve

02-18-2011, 11:29 AM	#17
asmegin_slayer cali-cornia bluffer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,194 Thanked: 146 Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Here is the video of that guitar! Manurack likes this. My Band www.myspace.com/colorofaum www.facebook.com/colorofaum

02-18-2011, 07:17 PM	#19
Anthony dude you're a koala Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nassau Long Island Posts: 4,738 Thanked: 55 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm glad this worked out, the less people that know about Alex Gregory, the better. Don't take anything I say here personally, I'm just here to talk about guitars while I'm not watching Brazzers.

02-18-2011, 10:00 PM	#22
Stealthdjentstic Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia Posts: 19,978 Thanked: 338 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	The "maestro" is the biggest douche ever, just ban his IP. TheHandOfStone, XeoFLCL, ShadowFactoryX and 2 others like this.

02-18-2011, 10:17 PM	#23
Coffee Elf ss.org Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 53 Thanked: 0 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What a great thread. Stuff like this is why I love the intarwebs.

02-18-2011, 11:56 PM	#24
Kr1zalid Archrocker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Malaysia Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 6 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Just read the Wiki article... Feels like better than the last one... "Though, you have to realize that not everyone is a musician. In fact MOST people who do listen to music aren't." - MaxOfMetal "You've heard djent, this is thrunnnggg and thrennnggg" - ixlramp on Blut Aus Nord's 777 sects album God bless you all!! Cheers - Kr1zalid -

02-19-2011, 10:51 AM	#25
ShadyDavey 7ibrarian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peterborough, UK Posts: 6,581 Thanked: 104 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	In the interests of total accuracy it's worthwhile mentioning that Uli Jon Roth uses a 7-string solidbody and has done since the mid 80's - it's extremely difficult to actually attach a precise chronology to his Sky Guitars (and indeed, I haven't seen an exact date to my knowledge) but he has noted in interviews that Steve Vai played a seven-string variant Sky Guitar prior to the release of the Ibanez Universe - it's uncertain if he felt that Steve was influenced by him but whilst far from a major artist his involvement seems to be worth mentioning While raping a bear in Yellowstone and snorting coke out of a freshly-dead baby's skull, I finally felt that I had found my calling and built a time machine out of Iraqi WMDs and LOTS OF HEMP WHOA. Using this time machine I went back in time and shot JFK from outer ....ing space. I am now your god - Jeff .....and then all of a sudden he drops the musical equivilant of a steaming turd right in our laps - ESP Griffyn

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