FML - the Roter arrived.

[Apophis]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

It just seems to me you're trying to justify acting the way you did, instead of just apologizing.

of course, cause there was a reason in 1st post for reaction like that, you don't want to see and understand that, your choice, but I have my dignity just like you have yours

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

Sorry for derailing your thread into a rant about his customer service skills Lethe. Nothing burns my ass more than attitudes like this.

I think you already said more than you should, you are not my customer, you know nothing about my customer service, I had never any complains about that, even Lethe can say that customer service wasn't as bad as you want to see it

This thread goes nowhere, I gave Lethe easiest possible way to solve the problem and it's just his move right now, he wants this thread to go or he wants to solve the problem we have

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Apophis

of course, cause there was a reason in 1st post for reaction like that, you don't want to see and understand that, your choice, but I have my dignity just like you have yours

So....just so I get this right and I know there's on language barrier, you believe as a business man that the comments you made to Lethe were completely, 100% acceptable?

[sPliNtEr_777]

I very very much hope no luthier on this board takes what I am about to type personally, as that is in no way what is intended: this is why I ordered my custom from Ran. They are a proven and artist endorsed luthier with a worldwide rep. Luthiers like Roter or Decibel or Sims or whoever might offer a high spec guitar for what seems like a bargain price, and a lot of the time this is true without issue, but you have to ask why they are so affordable. New luthier means unproven quality or even inexperienced at building guitars. For e.g. Emperion- everyone is starting threads about how good they are because they simply recieved an email from them, but the proof is in the pudding, you have to look impartially, regardless of aesthetics or price. This is the first run of Roter fanned frets so you have to expect mistakes, but at the same time why was the template not checked, double or even triple checked? Id rather not speculate but shit happens. Lethe should get the new neck and body he wants, which he probably will. Sebastien hopefully has learnt that the customer (in general) is very sensitive and people react very quickly on first impressions, and maybe we can all just think, "what am I actually paying for?"

I know Ive had my 2c, but consider this 2 more I mean no offense by anything, just my opinion...

[Snytbaggen]

Originally Posted by Apophis

I think you already said more than you should, you are not my customer, you know nothing about my customer service, I had never any complains about that, even Lethe can say that customer service wasn't as bad as you want to see it

I don't really want to jump into this conversation, but I want to comment on this. Sure, most of the people in here aren't your customers, but I'm sure a lot of us, including me, are potential customers. And it's probably true that we don't know much about your customer service, but the little we know about it is what we've have gathered from the forum and this thread (at least that's the case with me, can't speak for everyone). So the image you put up here is important for future sales. For example, depending how you solve this I might be a customer in the future.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Snytbaggen

I don't really want to jump into this conversation, but I want to comment on this. Sure, most of the people in here aren't your customers, but I'm sure a lot of us, including me, are potential customers. And it's probably true that we don't know much about your customer service, but the little we know about it is what we've have gathered from the forum and this thread (at least that's the case with me, can't speak for everyone). So the image you put up here is important for future sales. For example, depending how you solve this I might be a customer in the future.

Not only that, I really WAS seriously considering ordering one. I've posted in the other thread. I was a potential customer, and I think everyone here knows that I DO actually buy shit, in case you can't tell from my retarded number of picstories

Not anymore.

[Crucified]

In general, you are all being retarded. He has offered more than once to take the guitar back and fix the problem and this hasn't been addressed at all. How about the two people involved give each other a call, work it out nicely, say apologies where apologies are needed and everyone can stop lynching one another on the internet. Lets all grow up a year or two and stop having a slap fight about who's in the wrong.

Seriously, take a deep ....ing breath and take a look at your bloody posts.

[JJ Rodriguez]

I am being retarded, but honestly, look how he's acted, and still acting. An apology goes a long way, and like I said, I was considering buying one

[Lethe]

Sending out the guitar is not an option before you admit that there are obvious problems and agree to fix them until a certain date. Otherwise, it could be gone for god knows how long, you have my money, and I have no way of getting either back. Looking back, I think it is only natural that I am being careful.

[AzzMan]

Unresolved arguments on the internet like this are great reasons to make me happy playing ESPs, Gibsons, etc...

[Crucified]

Originally Posted by Lethe

Sending out the guitar is not an option before you admit that there are obvious problems and agree to fix them until a certain date. Otherwise, it could be gone for god knows how long, you have my money, and I have no way of getting either back. Looking back, I think it is only natural that I am being careful.

have you called him and talked to this with him and not on a message board? you know, like a normal human being would? so you guys can agree on terms and conditions instead of just starting a tirade on the innernets?

this is my last post in this abomination because it doesn't affect me at all and i have stopped caring but seriously, you guys(sebastion included) all need to start acting like adults and use words with each other, back and forth, in a conversation between the two people that are having issues and talk about what can be done. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. These threads are ridiculous.


I'm out.

[Apophis]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

So....just so I get this right and I know there's on language barrier, you believe as a business man that the comments you made to Lethe were completely, 100% acceptable?

I said before I maybe overreacted, I gave him easy solution for making things at least better from point we are now, still no answer, public or private, I don't want his extra money he said before, 3rd persons to work with us etc, it will change nothing and will make more problems.

So I would like everyone to listen ...

I would like to apologize Lethe for my overreaction and being rude. I hope you will understand why I did that and why it went so wrong. Let's keep it civil and start working about solution how we should from the beginning of this situation. I hope it will solve our problem.
Forgive me ...
Sebastian - Roter Custom Guitars

[JJ Rodriguez]

[Lethe]

I also would like to apologize to you again for speculating about what your reaction would be. I hope it doesn't offend you that this turned out to be the place where we discussed this, but I think that it is an appropriate place to do this. If you disagree, we can continue using PM and I will give a positive update here when the situation is resolved.

So, do you see any problems with my guitar? Would you like to get a more detailed picture of something?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lethe

I also would like to apologize to you again for speculating about what your reaction would be. I hope it doesn't offend you that this turned out to be the place where we discussed this, but I think that it is an appropriate place to do this. If you disagree, we can continue using PM and I will give a positive update here when the situation is resolved.

So, do you see any problems with my guitar? Would you like to get a more detailed picture of something?

Please do

[djpharoah]

Damn Leon - blink and you already closed it.

Glad you two are now taking this to PMs. I still think this thread could have been avoided had you guys tried to work this out initially via PM. If it didn't then work out or the ability to come to a common ground then maybe this thread would have made sense.

[El Caco]

I fell asleep at the start and wake up to find this cluster ...., shit.

Deadseen has 2 weeks off to think about his accusations/attack.

We need to all take something from this thread, a thread like this should not be posted before giving the builder a chance to resolve it. This has been said before but this thread demonstrates why.

When I come home in a few hours this thread will disappear.

[Apophis]

Thread was re-opened for me and Lethe to post here solution we have:

Lethe and I have already found an agreement. Lethe will send the guitar back, I'll build a new body and neck without the issues he noted. If the pickup angle parallel to the bridge causes sound problems, it will be Lethe's problem, not my, cause I will follow his direct needs. Upon arrival at my shop, I will make the new guitar in 5 weeks including shipping back to Lethe, so if the guitar does not arrive at his house 5 weeks after it reaches the Roter shop, I'll refund all his money.

That is full form of our agreement

[Jay Jay]

Originally Posted by Apophis

Thread was re-opened for me and Lethe to post here solution we have:

Lethe and I have already found an agreement. Lethe will send the guitar back, I'll build a new body and neck without the issues he noted. If the pickup angle parallel to the bridge causes sound problems, it will be Lethe's my problem, not my, cause I will follow his direct needs. Upon arrival at my shop, I will make the new guitar in 5 weeks including shipping back to Lethe, so if the guitar does not arrive at his house 5 weeks after it reaches the Roter shop, I'll refund all his money.

That is full form of our agreement

Good job guys, I'm glad you could come to a reasonable agreement

One thing though, if it were me, I wouldn't be putting a time constraint on it, because that could just cause other problems. I'd rather have the guitar done when it's done and have something that that someone took their time to get perfect.

[Apophis]

we had to agree some max time, cause he already waited long enough (other customers also) so in my personal opinion it is at least fair

[Beardyman]

Cheers guys! I'm glad to see everything worked out well for both sides.

[77zark77]

if every fighter here apologize, why is that thread still readable ?

a lesson ? :

peace is more constructive

[Customisbetter]

[Jay Jay]

Originally Posted by Apophis

we had to agree some max time, cause he already waited long enough (other customers also) so in my personal opinion it is at least fair

Yeah, that's fair.
Well anyway, I'm glad you guys were able to work it out!

[guitarplayerone]

Originally Posted by Apophis

we had to agree some max time, cause he already waited long enough (other customers also) so in my personal opinion it is at least fair

wow, actually i'll have to say that i'm very pleasantly surprised at this. sometimes these things happen, and i can understand that you are losing money on this guitar, but i'll have to say that the overall effect of this sort of policy on your reputation is just stellar. i don't think a single builder has ever gone wrong with this policy; you lose money on one guitar but sell an extra ten because potential customers just feel a lot safer

[iff]

This thread really turned around quickly.