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Unread 06-17-2010, 05:47 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal View Post
While the construction could potentially be flawless, and you might get the right pickups but the upper fret access, nut, and body wood will not be what you purchased. Even Emperion admit that.

Sorry man.
Yeah well you know what i mean
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Unread 06-17-2010, 05:51 PM   #452
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Same here. What model did you order?
I got the norax stii 7 with an unfinished neck and a set of painkillers in black, how bout u?
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Unread 06-17-2010, 05:55 PM   #453
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This is lovely news to wake up to.
Looks like they're giving me no refund but a "pro setup" and. Discount on future purchases. I love basswood guitars... Not. ....in bullshit
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Unread 06-17-2010, 05:58 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal View Post
I don't quite see how they can be too broke to give refunds, they're a Vader distributor, and via their eBay store sell ENGL, Mesa/Boogie, Orange, Blackstar, and Peavey amp, as well as CD's, LP's, T-shirts, etc.

Aeternitas Tenebrarum items - Get great deals on CDs, ENGL Amplification items on eBay Stores!
In addition to the credit possibility that was already mentioned, maybe they even drop-ship stuff and don't pay for it until they've already sold it.

It could also be that they have a shitload of money from-and-for those other things and don't plan on spending it on people that got screwed on this venture.

If it is a line of credit, it's probably just a matter of time before they mess that up too if this is how they run things.

Even if they manage to get their shit together in the financial and honesty departments, they still need to put a little effort into the guitars. Going by the pictures so far, I'd say the guys building these guitars aren't even qualified to sweep floors & clean toilets at Rondo.
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Unread 06-17-2010, 06:04 PM   #455
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Wow I just finished reading all of the thread and it seems like a pretty intense situation. It was really interesting to read how this has unfolded.

Good luck to everyone that's trying to get a refund and good luck to those hoping for an awesome guitar.
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Unread 06-17-2010, 06:11 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by capoeiraesp View Post
This is lovely news to wake up to.
Looks like they're giving me no refund but a "pro setup" and. Discount on future purchases. I love basswood guitars... Not. ....in bullshit
I hope "pro setup" means they pay you to have it setup by a real pro... and not send it back to their hacks for more butchering.

Discount on future purchases? That's hilarious! That's like a rapist offering to use lube if you come back for a second brutal anal thrashing.

How did you pay? If they're screwing you like that and you funded PayPal with a credit card, you should just do a charge-back at this point.

I think if enough people complain to PayPal, they'll side with the buyers.

It's not a matter of their seller protection only requiring that they provide proof of shipment... they still have to deliver what you paid for.
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Unread 06-17-2010, 06:38 PM   #457
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^well put with the rape comment
I used cash transfer via paypal. Gonna open up a dispute when I get to work.
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Unread 06-17-2010, 09:49 PM   #458
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NOOOOOO!!!! i woke up at 10am today and there was a delivery notice on the door saying 1st attempt has been made now i have to wait till monday, grrrrrr
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Unread 06-18-2010, 03:59 AM   #459
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Discount on future purchases? That's hilarious! That's like a rapist offering to use lube if you come back for a second brutal anal thrashing.


+ rep to you, sir!

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Unread 06-18-2010, 05:26 AM   #460
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Discount on future purchases? That's hilarious! That's like a rapist offering to use lube if you come back for a second brutal anal thrashing.
Sig'd.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 03:26 PM   #461
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My time to chime:

I didn't purchase nor wanted to purchase from them. New guitar companies are scary to put your trust into, unless you do your research on the company and they're already reputable. No big news there.

The problem I have with companies like this, is the after the fact sob story, "we're working non-stop, even weekends to meet the demands." Do you want simpathy? Big f'n deal! Don't take money from people when you can't produce quality, and also promise delivery dates. There is no excuse for their actions and poor craftsmanship. Just because these guitars are low retail cost, doesn't excuse the wretched production.

I'm feel really bad for those of you who have been burnt or currently being turned like a meat kabob waiting for replies or guitars.

They should just cut their loses before legal actions are taken. Return all the money to the buyers, sell off their crappy wood stock, parts and never build another guitar again. But the money is probably gone trying to fix their mistakes which should have never happened if they'd planned and perfected their building process from the get-go. Or someone took the money and skipped town.

What morons.

Companies like this sicken me. For shame.

One more thing, Michele stated on an earlier post in this thread, "I don't usually like forums like these..." WTF??? Sure... I wouldn't want to be in-tune with my clients, finding out what they want, fixing issues, taking suggestions. That was a shocking statement.

F' this company, F' their products and just an FU for good measure. Thank you.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 03:30 PM   #462
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Unread 06-18-2010, 04:37 PM   #463
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Quote:
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My time to chime:

I didn't purchase nor wanted to purchase from them. New guitar companies are scary to put your trust into, unless you do your research on the company and they're already reputable. No big news there.

The problem I have with companies like this, is the after the fact sob story, "we're working non-stop, even weekends to meet the demands." Do you want simpathy? Big f'n deal! Don't take money from people when you can't produce quality, and also promise delivery dates. There is no excuse for their actions and poor craftsmanship. Just because these guitars are low retail cost, doesn't excuse the wretched production.

I'm feel really bad for those of you who have been burnt or currently being turned like a meat kabob waiting for replies or guitars.

They should just cut their loses before legal actions are taken. Return all the money to the buyers, sell off their crappy wood stock, parts and never build another guitar again. But the money is probably gone trying to fix their mistakes which should have never happened if they'd planned and perfected their building process from the get-go. Or someone took the money and skipped town.

What morons.

Companies like this sicken me. For shame.

One more thing, Michele stated on an earlier post in this thread, "I don't usually like forums like these..." WTF??? Sure... I wouldn't want to be in-tune with my clients, finding out what they want, fixing issues, taking suggestions. That was a shocking statement.

F' this company, F' their products and just an FU for good measure. Thank you.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 05:41 PM   #464
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I had asked for them to arrange the pickup of the guitar until Thursday and I have given them also choices to return the guitar myself. Also when I addressed my concerns of the quality of the guitar before it was sent and after I received and requested to return it Michele assured me I will get a refund. So today I receive this email:

"Hi Georgios, you can keep the guitar until you'll be back home, because we are too busy in sending pre-orders by now. We will organize things for the returning procedure, that we'll pay in full so don't worry about that.
I am deeply sorry, but we are not yet able to offer you a refund. The best thing we can offer to you is to send you back the guitar with the pick-ups you ordered + a free Horizon Humbuckers pick up set. This is the best thing we can do for you in this situation to apologise."

And my reply was along with photos of the defects:

"Hi Michele,

If it was only the pickups and the nut I would accept your offer but
the guitar as it is and with the modifications and situation that it
is, is not worth the money I paid. I am attaching you photos to see
some of the more obvious problems.

So we have:
1. Badly routed pickup cavities.
2. Chip on the right side of the nut that was clumsily covered with
paint and not very well placed on the guitar.
3. Bad paint job with small areas all over the guitar with uncovered
wood. Worst of all are the fins were there are chips also.
4. Bad condition of frets. The fret wire seems old.
5. Partially striped intonation screw on the bridge in the D (Re) string.
6. Wrong pickups and wrong nut.
7. Pickups are not placed in correct position in the huge pickup
cavities. Neck pickup is a bit angled and not all poles are alligned
with strings.
8. Wrong body shape.
9. The guitar is very neck heavy even with the bigger body.
10. Fretboard has a defect that starts from between the pickup and
24th fret and finishes on the 22nd fret.
11. Pickup cavity is a mess, cover is sticking out of the body, one
screw wood post is chipped so it is on the air and it is badly painted
and not insulated. It also has remaining wood shavings and paint.

Now if you bought a new guitar and had all these problems, which some
of them are not repairable or would cost too much and take too much
time to repair, would you accept the proposal you gave me? I think
not. I was so disappointed with the guitar that I played it for 20
minutes and then immediately packed it up and contacted you.

I can understand what you are going through but this situation you are
in right now could have been avoided. In this period of time I also
have a lot of work and I am very stressed and this is one thing I
don't want to worry about. So thank you but no!

I will not wait until I have return to send the guitar back. Since it
seems that you can't process the return right now I will ask you to do
it as soon as you have finished with shipping the guitars. I will
arrange for a friend to be in my home for the pick up of the guitar at
that day. If you don't accept I will send it anyway with the French
post because the only thing it is doing in my home is taking up space.
As I said it is packed up and ready to go.

To sum up you said in your previous email that you will give me a
refund and that there was no problem. This is the only reason I
accepted to give it a try since there where a lot of things I was
displeased with in the time it took for the guitar to be ready. I
don't want the guitar and you specifically said in your site that you
will return the money if the customer is not pleased.

So I want a refund and no other solution is acceptable for me.

Best regards,
Georgios Zoulis"

I still haven't got a reply. I'll wait and see if I have a reply tomorrow otherwise I'm opening a dispute with PayPal. I know that for all the payments it has been more than 45 days but I am going to try anyway. If that doesn't work (which most probably it will not) I will like to ask the people in Europe and in France where I can go from there and to which authorities I must refer to. I have their address and phone number and to tell you the truth I am thinking of giving them a call tomorrow since they are working 12 hours per day even weekends.

Also hasn't anybody else receive their guitar already especially in Europe?
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Unread 06-18-2010, 05:54 PM   #465
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That seems to be a great e-mail reply man.

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Unread 06-18-2010, 05:56 PM   #466
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Did you pay with Paypal and your credit card? If Paypal won't do shit, can always charge back from your credit card.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:01 PM   #467
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Did you pay with Paypal and your credit card? If Paypal won't do shit, can always charge back from your credit card.
really wish i had done this via credit card, I asked for a refund before the guitars even left the factory, so I have no guitar AND no money

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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:02 PM   #468
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Maybe you can contact the Italian authorities and take some legal action.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:04 PM   #469
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really wish i had done this via credit card, I asked for a refund before the guitars even left the factory, so I have no guitar AND no money
It's okay man, they might give you some of their cheap OEM pickups in exchange.

What a joke.

Sorry man, perhaps, like JJ said, you can talk to the Italian authorities. From what I understand countries in the EU have little tolerance for companies who deliver "poor" goods.

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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:12 PM   #470
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@MaxOfMetal: Thanks man. And in all the pictures I send them I highlighted the defects. Lets if the "pen" will be mightier than the sword.

@JJ Rodriguez: I paid with PayPal through my credit card which is actually a bank card with Mastercard status. I'll see what PayPal will reply, then I'll have to ask the bank if it can do a charge back for these transactions.

The stupid thing is that I jumped the gun in ordering this without searching more about them and after I registered in this forum and checked the horror stories I didn't ask for a refund immediately. And I was between this guitar and an Agile interceptor 27''. The reasons I chose Emperion was that they were in Europe so no extra expenses, the specs were good and I could choose the Bareknuckles.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:13 PM   #471
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So we're all getting screwed over now with this refund thing.
Time for the relevant authorities to be contacted.
Here's the last 48 hours for me.

I sent yet another request for refund to them on Thursday, right when the shit hit the fan. This was their initial response.

"we are unable to refund the money to those who requested it. The best thing we can do is to send you the guitar you ordered with a pro setup and offer you a big discount on the next Emperion production which is already being processed and that won't have any flaw."

I responded on Friday with;

"The option you have provided me with is unacceptable. Given that the guitar is of different specifications (basswood, no graphite nut, different fret access etc.), this is false advertising. I am somewhat sympathetic to your situation, however, consider the people you're selling thing's to. I ordered this guitar months ago with the intention to record with it and use it live. You agreed several weeks ago to provide me with a full refund. Since I had to go on tour and had to buy a second guitar I needed to use money from my fiances wedding dress account! She was ok with it because I showed her the emails from you guys saying you would provide me with a full refund. Now i'm in the position where I do not have the money to place in the account and my fiance is going to be very unhappy with me.

I have several questions for you though.
- How is it you guys have no money and people working for free but you're able to hire a new technical team?
- Why are you offering other people refund's 'in a timely manner' and i'm getting stuck with no option but to receive the guitar? (DIDN'T GET ANSWERED)
- If someone has been working 'without wage' for 10 hours a day for the last 2 months, obviously you must have been aware of these problems a long time ago? I'm a school teacher and I work a minimum of 10 hours a day 5 days a week and then spend most of my Sunday working on school stuff. It's pretty normal.
- Your rep in Japan has made the mistakes, so how come he's not coming up with the money or fix for the issue?

The only options I will accept are as follows:
- A full refund as per my previous emails
- A refund of my 2nd deposit and the guitar sent to me as ordered including my upgrades"


I momentarily woke at 6am this Saturday and checked my emails on my phone and got this response.

I will answer to your questions:

- the new technical team is formed by friends of us that shares with us the passion for musical instruments. So they give us their technical support in total, and I underline total friendship without receiving anything from us apart from esteem and respect.
- the refunds have been been processed until we were able to sustain that. (what the hell does this mean?)
- we were not aware of this problems two months ago. We face the problem once we received the guitars and see the mess happened. We always work ten hours a day because we try to make the best we can for Emperion. I'm sorry that being a teacher in your country means such a heavy burden. You are definitively more unlucky than italian teachers. This doesn't want to offend you, but wants to be an ironic consideration on our country (sigh!)
- If you are able to find him you will have our eternal gratidude. He disappeared with the money.

So back to my dues. The only solution I can offer you is this: I will send you the guitar you ordered as you ordered it and we can make a balance trade for the amount of your second deposit on another guitar yet available or one out of the next stock we will make.

Thank you.

Best Regards
Francesco / Emperion Guitars


I'm not sure where to go from here. I've found the basic EU laws on internet purchases but since i'm in Australia I am protected differently.

7 days to cancel purchase for non-faulty goods

In the EU, you have the right to cancel your online purchase within seven working days.
This seven-day "cooling off" period begins on the day when you receive your purchase.
You can choose to cancel your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.
The seller must give you a refund within 30 days. This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase.
This applies whenever you buy goods outside a shop (for example by phone, fax, or mail order, as well as on the internet).
Although you have a right of refund, you will have to pay the postage costs of shipping goods bought online back to the seller.


Sorry for the massive message guys. I'm so pissed off right now and feeling very, very ripped off. Now that i'm outside of the 45 day protection period with PayPal i'm stuck and I've gotta tell the mrs sometime; she's gonna be stoked!
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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:16 PM   #472
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really wish i had done this via credit card, I asked for a refund before the guitars even left the factory, so I have no guitar AND no money
Did you receive an email that they can't give you a refund?
If so then how are they processing the refunds for the people that asked for them already if they send the same email to everyone that has asked for one? And how many people have received the refund? I have seen the case of one person that has asked for it in this forum.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:18 PM   #473
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Great post capoeiraesp.

For those not inclined to read the whole thing:


Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeiraesp
I'm not sure where to go from here. I've found the basic EU laws on internet purchases but since i'm in Australia I am protected differently.

7 days to cancel purchase for non-faulty goods

In the EU, you have the right to cancel your online purchase within seven working days.
This seven-day "cooling off" period begins on the day when you receive your purchase.
You can choose to cancel your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.
The seller must give you a refund within 30 days. This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase.
This applies whenever you buy goods outside a shop (for example by phone, fax, or mail order, as well as on the internet).
Although you have a right of refund, you will have to pay the postage costs of shipping goods bought online back to the seller.

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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:31 PM   #474
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Edika, can you please post their address and phone details?
I'm thinking of giving them a call too.
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Unread 06-18-2010, 06:33 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeiraesp View Post
Edika, can you please post their address and phone details?
I'm thinking of giving them a call too.
You might want to receive that info via PM. Posting it here, out in the open, is somewhat frowned upon if that info isn't readily available.

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