[mazafaka]

I am attempting my first recording with my new 6505 combo and I am having a couple problems. I have only a Samson C03 condenser mic, and although I am working on picking up a SM57, the condenser is what I have for now. I am working in a home studio and I am considering clearing out a closet to use for recording through the amp.

Problem: I am having trouble achieving the presence that I am looking for. I think it has to do with the mic and the fact that it is picking up sound in front of and behind the mic. Perhaps isolating the amp in the closet would help this... The mic is placed as close to the grille of the amp as possible, directly in front of one speaker and is set to super-cardioid. I have adjusted the volume on my Presonus Firebox and I can get the general input level I am looking for, but not the "in your face" sound. I have adjusted the resonance and presence on the amp and the reverb is turned off.

I have read a number of tutorials and it looks like my options are using a dynamic / directional mic and/or a sound isolation booth (both being optimal). What are your thoughts?

[Rev2010]

Honestly, micing an amp is a serious pain in the ass. Finding the sweetspot is very time consuming and you should probably trying different positions. Also, I'd stay away from an SM57. I can't understand why anyone likes their sound. They have a very nasally sound to them. I'd go with something more neutral like a decent condenser mic. I don't know how good your Samson is but I've had great results with a Rode NT-1. I recently picked up an AKG C1000S and it too works great but I haven't been able to get "the" sound from it yet though I haven't worked with it long. Also, have you tried EQ'ing the resulting recording? Most of the time you will need to EQ the recording at least a little. Mic position alone isn't usually enough for "master tone". It could be your mic quality. Sucks though that mics aren't returnable. I'd like to buy several models and test them all and just keep the best and return the rest.


Rev.

[mazafaka]

I have worked with the positioning a bit and it seems like the sweet spot is very small, but easy enough to find - it pretty much sounds tinny and generally crappy everywhere else. I think the problem is that I am in a room that is probably 12'x15' with little sound dampening. So the resulting recording sounds like it has reverb although the reverb effect on the amp is turned off.

I think that it will help if I fill a small closet with plenty of clothes and other sound-dampening materials and record in there. That way, there won't be any room sound to get picked up.

How do you have your recording enviroment set up?

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by mazafaka

I think that it will help if I fill a small closet with plenty of clothes and other sound-dampening materials and record in there. That way, there won't be any room sound to get picked up.

How do you have your recording enviroment set up?

Well, that's strange though... you said the mic is supercardioid so it shouldn't be picking up much room sound especially not while being in front of a loud amp. You know what you could do for a quick and easy test to see if it's the room... setup some blankets so that they're covering over the mic and the cabinet (not the head - hot tubes).

My room is setup pretty sweet. I have a new carpet on the floor (wall to wall) and I have Auralex acoustic foam on the walls (about 45% coverage).


Rev.

**EDIT - I just checked out the specs on your mic. Is it possible that the switch to change it to supercardioid isn't working? The other two modes are figure 8 and omnidirectional which are both bad for recording a mic'd amp.

[mazafaka]

I suppose it's possible that the switch isn't working, but I do notice a difference in the sound in all three settings. The blanket idea is a good one. I will try that tonight and see if it reduces the reverb-like effect.

Are you saying that there is no real need for me to use a dynamic mic? It seems like the SM57 gets constantly recommended. I have also heard that the Audix i5 is a great alternative to the SM57, and perhaps better in some respects....

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by mazafaka

Are you saying that there is no real need for me to use a dynamic mic? It seems like the SM57 gets constantly recommended. I have also heard that the Audix i5 is a great alternative to the SM57, and perhaps better in some respects....

Nah, there's no "need" for a dynamic. I prefer condensers by far. They're usually far flatter in response and overall better sounding. I want the sound that's coming out of the amp. I don't want a mic that gives my amps sound and extra 10db boost all the way from 5khz-10khz. Some people prefer this cause it makes the sound brighter and sometimes lessens the need for EQ but I prefer a mic that doesn't boost any specific frequencies too much.

Dynamic mics are great in that they can be left setup with no problems. Condenser mics are sensitive to moisture and it isn't a good idea to leave them setup. If you go with a dynamic mic I too would prefer the Audix i5. It's frequency plot graph looks overall better to me. If you are hearing a change when flipping the switch on your mic than it's probably working fine. I looked at the graph for your mic and it looks nicely flat when set to supercardioid. Have you ever recorded vocals or other things through it. If so what were the results?

One more thing... you checked to make sure the high and low pass filter switches are off right?


Rev.

[eleven59]

I've never had a problem with micing a cab. Just push a dynamic mic (SM57 preferably, though there are other options) straight against the grill in front of the center of the speaker.

[Vince]

Drew posted this awhile back, and it's time for a repost:

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

Read that. It's great. Long read, but very educational.

Here's my take:

Recording rhythm guitar is one of the hardest things to do well. You have to have a great signal chain, you have to have clean/clear mics, good d/a converters & mic preamps, the right sound on the amp, and the right mic location on the speaker.

Most important is the right sound on the amp and the right mic location on the speaker. You can get by without some of the other things. I've found that my recording sounds are very different from my live guitar sound. My recording sounds don't sound incredibly impressive when played with my band live, but they are great when put to tape. Speaking from personal experience, your live sound almost never works in a studio.

Your mic picks up sound differently than your ears do. That's why it's practically mandatory to have a quality set of headphones. Put the headphones on, strap on your guitar, then play and start messing with the mic position. It can take hours to find the sweet spot (or in my case, years!), but once you do, you'll know because it'll sound completely different than the other parts of the speaker. Once you have that spot located, start messing with the amp's dials and see what sounds you can get from it. That's the process most engineers use (or they use a variation of it, i.e. having a tech move the mic ).

Your recording sound should have more mids, tons more presence, and a lot less bass than your live sound you're used to out of your amp. The mids and presence are magical when recording. A lot of guys (myself included) use an extra EQ after the preamp stage of their rig/amp for additional boosting/cutting of those frequencies. Your bassist will more than make up for the lost bass in your sound. Also, if you haven't already, lower your gain at least 2-3 clicks from your live sound. Your sound will be heavy enough with the gain on 6, and it'll sound mushy as heck on 8 or 9.

A quality condenser mic will pick up a great sound for you. For punch, clarity, and the sparkling high end that you hear on pro metal albums, you've gotta have an SM57 or Beta 57, IMO. They add something that you don't realize until you use them. They also do not sound very good unless put in the perfect spot, which is why a lot of guys buy them, try them, and are disapointed by them. I didn't like mine at first either until I learned how to use it. Once you find the sweet spot on the speaker and put the 57 in that spot, your sound will be golden.

[Drew]

Incidentally, everyone should print out and frame the diagram on pages 15 and 16 of that. At 117 pages, the whole thing is going to have to wait for some night wen I'm the last one in the office, but...

Reading it, I suppose I should probably stop rolling off everything below 120-200hz on my rhythm guitars by default... Leads, sure... but for heavy rhythm it seems I've been screwing up all these years.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

Nah, there's no "need" for a dynamic. I prefer condensers by far. They're usually far flatter in response and overall better sounding. I want the sound that's coming out of the amp. I don't want a mic that gives my amps sound and extra 10db boost all the way from 5khz-10khz. Some people prefer this cause it makes the sound brighter and sometimes lessens the need for EQ but I prefer a mic that doesn't boost any specific frequencies too much.

Dynamic mics are great in that they can be left setup with no problems. Condenser mics are sensitive to moisture and it isn't a good idea to leave them setup. If you go with a dynamic mic I too would prefer the Audix i5. It's frequency plot graph looks overall better to me. If you are hearing a change when flipping the switch on your mic than it's probably working fine. I looked at the graph for your mic and it looks nicely flat when set to supercardioid. Have you ever recorded vocals or other things through it. If so what were the results?

One more thing... you checked to make sure the high and low pass filter switches are off right?


Rev.

no offense but your the only person ive ever heard say don't use a dynamic mic