What interface to get for live drum recording?

[MrMcSick]

I'm stepping up my set up to be able to finally record live drums on their own respective tracks. I have a 6 piece and it seems an 8 xlr in is going to be the main option.

Was thinking I'd run it like this
1- bass drum
2- snare top
3,4,5,6 toms
7,8 stereo overhead condensors.

Now I can get rid of one of the toms and use that input as a room mic which is prob what I'll do.

I would like to have stereo room mics and a bottom snare but alas I've run out of inputs.

I do not have a firewire card and never have used any. I've read you need one with a Texas instruments chip for it to be most effective at recording. I Also like the fact that you can daisy chain or slave/master firewire stuff together but not sure how good it works.

So I think I'm leaning towards the Tascam US-2000 usb.

Somebody tell me why I should consider others like
maudio 2626 / fast track 8r
tascam us-1800
Zoom r24 (functions as a DAW controller as well)
Presonus Firestudio
Mackie Onyx blackbird

I also have found most of these devices on ebay brand new in boxes for alot cheaper than the stores and was wondering what the catch was. No warranty????

[MrMcSick]

No one has any experience with any of these?

[Cynic]

Couldn't tell you, man. Most of the people here, including myself, program drums. Ask King about it, though. I'm pretty sure he can answer what you're trying to find out.

[Larcher]

for 8 inputs get the presonus firestudio, I just got mine and it's a damn good interface. Paid 430$ for it with shipping, new.

[mlabonte]

Youre going to need more than 8 to get great live drums. You'll need around 10 - 12. All my drums from my past projects are live. This is how it'd be routed.

Kick 1
Snare top 2
Snare Bottom 3
Tom 1 4
Tom 2 5
Tom 3 6
Tom 4 7
Hi Hat 8

LO 1
RO 2
Room 3
Far Room 4

And that's the minimum I would do for that. So you could essentially find two firestudios which are great for around $300 a piece used if you look in the right place and daisy chain them. Rides should be micd and so should chinas as well so 16 inputs would be ideal

[BillNephew]

I have a Tascam US-1800. It seems to have a bad rep around here but I like it for what it does. Sure, it's not the best, but 8 XLR inputs, 2 instrument/line inputs, a few line outs, monitor outs, and midi functionality all for $300? Whatever you do, don't use the Cubase LE that it comes with. I have had nothing but latency and glitching issues with that software. Use REAPER instead with it. It's a bit more RAM hungry but I have not had any of the mentioned problems since I switched over to it.

[MrMcSick]

About the firewire, is it true you will need a pci card with a Texas instruments chip or could I just got to best buy and get their dynex for like $35?

[mlabonte]

For a Firestudio? I was just using any old firewire port to run it and it worked great

[Larcher]

Originally Posted by MrMcSick

About the firewire, is it true you will need a pci card with a Texas instruments chip or could I just got to best buy and get their dynex for like $35?

I ordered some bootleg Firewire card from china, made in china, and on the box it said "FireWare" rather than firewire, works fine.

[MrMcSick]

Thanks guys.

[SpaceDock]

I use the fire studio tube and it is very nice for the $

[KingAenarion]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Couldn't tell you, man. Most of the people here, including myself, program drums. Ask King about it, though. I'm pretty sure he can answer what you're trying to find out.

This gave me so many warm fuzzies!

Originally Posted by MrMcSick

About the firewire, is it true you will need a pci card with a Texas instruments chip or could I just got to best buy and get their dynex for like $35?

I'll answer this first.

No you don't need it, but the reason TI are better for audio, is that at lower buffer setties with higher sets of streamed information (more channels) they are better at controlling Interrupt requests so you don't get pops and clicks. The VIA chipsets are ok, but for some reason the TI ones just handle it better.





Now as to the recording side:

When it comes to Tascam, my stance is the same as with Behringer.

"FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!" They are unreliable, dodgy and tend to break shortly after their warranty runs out. They have probably the worst drivers on the market (worse than Presonus' which can be pretty bad)



You haven't given us a budget.

So I'm going to go ahead and suggest the following. Purchase a high end interface. Something with ADAT style expandability. Get more preamps than you want so you can record Drums + something else at the same time if you want.

I'm a REALLY big fan of RME products. They have stunning drivers, they work incredibly well, are well featured and sound great. You would need an extra preamps with these though probably (a Focusrite OctoPre/OctoPre Dynamic with like an RME Fireface UFX or UCX would also be great as they have the only reliable USB pro audio drivers I've seen alongside firewire)

The new UAD interfaces are splendid too, and have Thunderbolt expandability which is nice AND you're able to process UAD plugins which are ....ing tits good (best on the market I reckon) without taking up another Firewire slot. You would still need a second preamp with this though.

If those things are completely out of your budget, or you need the interface NOW NOW NOW and can't save for longer, here are my suggestions.

Stay away from Tascam, Zoom and Mackie. Don't stay away from Mackie because of their quality, but stay away from them for their tendency to make a product, then stop making it and stop providing Driver support for it. They haven't updated Tracktion, their DAW (which had some great concepts) in quite a few years, yet continue to package it with things.

Presonus are OK. They have some great products (like their DAW, Studio One which I use almost exclusively at the moment apart from Pro Tools)... and some not so good products... like their Firestudio range. The Firestudio range are notoriously dodgy with their drivers. Windows 7 is a nightmare and most people have to spend ages fiddling with shit to get them to work. I have a 2626 as a backup and it is the most frustrating POS to use. People do have great experiences with them though, and the preamps are not bad, quite neutral, but they do need a lot of gain (which isn't so much a problem on drums)

the M-Audio has great drivers and a good sound so I'd consider that.


However, if you can't quite drop $2K + on your gear, another option it to go a route whereby you can have good upgradeability too.

The Focusrite Saffire range have pretty nice preamps. A few people have problems with their drivers, but I know enough people who haven't and those who have it's been an easy fix.

If you can afford it, the Liquid 56 is stunning and has two liquid preamps. It is not the FULL liquid preamp, but it is the important bits. The liquid pres are really really REALLY nice, and considered some of the better pres on the market.

It also works very well in standalone ADAT mode, so you can just use it as a preamp for a better device (like an RME or UAD or Apogee down the line)

The Pro 40 has the same qualities without the Liquid preamps (and about 1/2 the price) and works slightly better in standalone mode as the Liquid Pre's as good as they sound tend to be difficult to dial in without the connection to the computer.



So...

Ideal:

RME Fireface UFX or UCX or 800
Or
UAD Apollo Duo or Quad
Or
Prism Orpheus

PLUS
Quality 8 Channel Preamp. Contenders include Focusrite OctoPre for slightly lower, Behriner ADA8000 for REALLY REALLY low, Focusrite ISA28 for maximum sweetness... among other contenders I'm sure you could find.


Less money but upgradable to above setup:
Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 OR Saffire Pro 40

You could have a Focusrite OctoPre or similar 8 channel Adat preamp in this setup for 16 channels if you wanted to, and then you've have a whole lot of extras when you upgraded.


I only need 8 tracks and won't use anymore and refuse to spend more money.
M-Audio Fastrack 2626, Presonus Firestudio Project (the chained firewire device thing is balls... don't do it)



TL;DR... read my whole post you lazy shit.

[fps]

My firestudio works fine, I've started to record live drums with it, although 8 tracks doesn't give me the chance to use room mics and that's a bit of a pain. PM me I'll send a mix I'm just doing of a new song that was all done with firestudio and live instruments if you like. Ended up having to do a little drum doubling as well but it could give you an idea of some low-end sounds.

[MrMcSick]

Thanks for the info king, much appreciated.

My budget is $500 tops for an interface. I need at least 8 xlr inputs and would love to have 10-12 but don't see that happening.

As for drivers could I just use asio4all if I run into any problems since thats what I've been using with my lexicon omega for the last couple years since their drivers are awful.

If I have something with adat in I can get a seperate preamp and run it through that correct?

[MrMcSick]

King - could I get a Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 and then add on a 8 channel pre amp like that behringer ada8000 and then have 10 xlr inputs that can all go to their own tracks?

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

If budget is crucial; CHEAT!

Buy a reasonable mixer, connect up all your mic's and make stereo panned submixes of your drums, then record the buss outputs of your mixer with your firware interface. That will help, but you will have to live with your sub mixing decisions later on.

Check out this thread, some very surprising results, with inexpensive and outdated interfaces/pre's scoring very high. Motu content.

The Ultimate Converter DA/AD Loopback Shootout Thread! - Gearslutz.com

@KingAenerion

Great post. I just picked up a Focusrite Liquid 56, they've expanded the number of vintage emulations for the liquid channels. They are available for download and use with their software from the Focusrite website. It's over 40 now. Good for reamping through itself.

[Enselmis]

I think picking up a Focusrite of some kind and then one of those Behringer ADA8000's would be a great idea.

[pipelineaudio]

I would reccomend, if going firewire to stay MILES from anything using the DICE-II interface.

I realize this puts me at odds with Focusrite, who has been nothing but kind to me personally and some of my clients, and who has the balls to acknowledge that it is an issue and has taken some extraordinary steps to fix it, and that at KMS we are running a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 without issue

So with that disclaimer out of the way, its still a two horse game if its firewire: RME and MOTU. These are the lowest round trip latency units on the market, use the least CPU and I have the least tech support emails i have to answer on them

If you want the fastest MOTU's you will need the older units that could still use the 3.6.7.4 drivers. The new ones are a tiny bit slower, but not by much

[KingAenarion]

Man, don't get those Scarlett interfaces, they're awful.

Pushing your budget a bit/saving is a good idea and you won't regret it.

The Focusrite Saffire is $500 from Sweetwater.


@pipe

When he's got this low a budget, the DICE-II thing is going to take a second to seat to "can I afford it".

The only reason I would HAVE a Focusrite Saffire interface is because they work so well in standalone as well.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by KingAenarion

@pipe

When he's got this low a budget, the DICE-II thing is going to take a second to seat to "can I afford it".

The only reason I would HAVE a Focusrite Saffire interface is because they work so well in standalone as well.

MOTU 8pre | Sweetwater.com

The MOTU 8 Pre is KILLER in that price range

The Saffire 40 has True DI inputs

Hard choice...fastest drivers and lowest cpu use vs having DI's and a company that actually responds to your emails

[KingAenarion]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

MOTU 8pre | Sweetwater.com

The MOTU 8 Pre is KILLER in that price range

The Saffire 40 has True DI inputs

Hard choice...fastest drivers and lowest cpu use vs having DI's and a company that actually responds to your emails

Yea. If only we could all afford RME

[MrMcSick]

Both the saffire pro 40 and motu 8pre are looking pretty nice, time to research.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by MrMcSick

Both the saffire pro 40 and motu 8pre are looking pretty nice, time to research.

Here's the mic pre's you'll find on the pro 40 and LS56 right near the very edge of their SPL limit on the drums


Here's the 8 pre on the wood drums and a behringer ada8000 on the cymbals



Soundwise you won't lose either way