Mac Mini for Home Recording - Worth?

[Mordacain]

Originally Posted by klinic

I'm typing this off of a MacBook Pro and speaking as someone who has built and repaired many different PC systems over the last few years.

But I have to disagree. Internally, Macs and PCs are pretty much identical. The cases (while not bulletproof), screens and keyboards etc. are all very high quality and much better then the competition, but it's up to the individual to decide whether it is worth it.

Just as a reference, I've been a serious system builder, modder & all around geek since the 80's. I have taken apart many Apple products from virtually every generation and while getting into them is almost always more of a PITA than any other manufacturer, they've always lasted longer in my experience and I've always seen higher end components in use, like solid capacitors and thicker copper tracing on circuit boards.

The processors might be the same across the spectrum, but that's not really what I was talking about.

I will say one thing though and that Apple has recently started using Fujitsu drives, which are probably the shittiest component they use (more just a QC issue, same as Hitachi).

[IK Obi]

Originally Posted by Kamin

IMO, if the OP isn't going to use Logic (or for that matter doesn't know what it is) and isn't going for a high-end interface, it would seem to me that a PC would be a much better bet. I wouldn't buy a Mac for recording so that I could use garageband.

I agree. If he is going to use Reason/Record I'd go PC instead of mac and save a small fortune he can put towards other gear.

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by IK Obi

I agree. If he is going to use Reason/Record I'd go PC instead of mac and save a small fortune he can put towards other gear.

If that he is me, I'm going to do, at least now, this: I'll buy the Mac 'cause its faster than the PC, but I'll use the same setup I use today, 'cause I'm already used to the one I've worked for some years. And my gear today isn't "WoWonderful!", but it's enough to me to achieve a good sound, and gear, at least to me now, should be something professional, that can go on with me if I wanna go harder or faster, and can be carried all around, and this kind of gear is the same price of an expensive Mac recording setup. I understand your vision, but I can't agree with you now. =/

[Lern2swim]

Originally Posted by IshiiKurisu

If that he is me, I'm going to do, at least now, this: I'll buy the Mac 'cause its faster than the PC, but I'll use the same setup I use today, 'cause I'm already used to the one I've worked for some years. And my gear today isn't "WoWonderful!", but it's enough to me to achieve a good sound, and gear, at least to me now, should be something professional, that can go on with me if I wanna go harder or faster, and can be carried all around, and this kind of gear is the same price of an expensive Mac recording setup. I understand your vision, but I can't agree with you now. =/

No. A PC with the same performance as a particular Mac is going to cost less. Considerably less. Whether that money saved goes toward new gear or whatever else is obviously subjective.

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by Lern2swim

No. A PC with the same performance as a particular Mac is going to cost less. Considerably less. Whether that money saved goes toward new gear or whatever else is obviously subjective.

Have you ever used Mac for a long period of time? I have a question...
I've never used and I'm experienced with PC here in Brasil, and here, a PC works like a rocket just for the first week. After this, it just stops. If it happens with the Mac or also with PC where you live, please tell me, 'cause it's a hard choice to me and it's complicated because no one knows [ QOTSA!] a shit about Mac here. And here, a PC like you said is the same price an Apple Computer.

[Kamin]

Most PCs will slow down as a result of bloatware or malware that finds its way on. Additionally, having to run antivirus protection slows it down. There is a simple solution though: don't connect your recording rig to the internet. Download what you need and transfer it with a USB stick. A PC won't slow down for no reason.

As to the quality component argument, if you build your own PC you have control over this. You also get a clean OS install. For the price of a Mac Mini you could have a much faster PC that is as reliable, as long as you take time and do research into the components you are putting together. Macs don't vary in hardware that much which is a big part of the reliability factor.

[IK Obi]

Originally Posted by IshiiKurisu

Have you ever used Mac for a long period of time? I have a question...
I've never used and I'm experienced with PC here in Brasil, and here, a PC works like a rocket just for the first week. After this, it just stops. If it happens with the Mac or also with PC where you live, please tell me, 'cause it's a hard choice to me and it's complicated because no one knows [ QOTSA!] a shit about Mac here. And here, a PC like you said is the same price an Apple Computer.

Have you ever used a similarly spec'd PC as a Mac? Even a Mac Pro? Its considerably cheaper and most of the time you can get more power than a mac for considerably less. Not saying mac is bad but bang for buck against PC mac always losses. The only reason to go mac is the OS, aesthetics and software that is Mac only.

[IshiiKurisu]

Well,
1.: I'm not buying it just 'cause of the recording studio, but also for diary use, and the mac softwares, including the ones that come with the stock computer, are way better and way easier to use than the PC ones [I'm noob, ok? Computers are aliens to me.]; maybe even in my office I'm gonna use this Mac. That's why I wanna buy one.
2.: So Internet is the problem? PCs slow down because of Internet? And it will happen to Mac, too? FCK!

[IK Obi]

Originally Posted by IshiiKurisu

Well,
1.: I'm not buying it just 'cause of the recording studio, but also for diary use, and the mac softwares, including the ones that come with the stock computer, are way better and way easier to use than the PC ones [I'm noob, ok? Computers are aliens to me.]; maybe even in my office I'm gonna use this Mac. That's why I wanna buy one.
2.: So Internet is the problem? PCs slow down because of Internet? And it will happen to Mac, too? FCK!

As long as your not downloading everything that says download me and keeping your antivirus up to date then you should be fine.

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by IK Obi

As long as your not downloading everything that says download me and keeping your antivirus up to date then you should be fine.

So it's a brasilian problem, 'cause here every computer slow down, includig mine, and I download just nothing [I AIN'T NO LIAR! I BUY MY MUSIC! [more spam 'cause of this?]], and my antivirus is always O.K.. Maybe 'cause of the heat [and it's not so hot here where I live], I don't know. Anyways, I think I'll buy the Mini, 'cause I've got a good Apple dealer for me here and he can help me if something goes wrong.
BUT IT'S NOT CERTAIN!

[ElRay]

Originally Posted by Lern2swim

No. A PC with the same performance as a particular Mac is going to cost less. Considerably less.

Only if you DIY it, which the OP may have no interest in doing.

If you're comparing brand name to brand name, Macs are often cheaper for equivalent machines. You can't compare a Yugo and Mercedes and say they're equivalent just because they both have four doors and the same trunk volume.

Also, the number one problem with PeeCee's is that you're either stuck with a *nix variant or Windows. For real day-to-day, get work done usage, they're both too high maintenance and cumbersome in comparison to OS X

And like it or not, with Windows, you (still) do have virus issues. Windows 7 is less bad, but it's still an insecure OS in comparison to OS X and *nix variants.

Ray

[Lern2swim]

Originally Posted by ElRay

Only if you DIY it, which the OP may have no interest in doing.

If you're comparing brand name to brand name, Macs are often cheaper for equivalent machines. You can't compare a Yugo and Mercedes and say they're equivalent just because they both have four doors and the same trunk volume.

That's not really true and that analogy is pretty "off". There's plenty of good PC brands around now that can be had for less than crap like Dell and Gateway

Originally Posted by ElRay

Also, the number one problem with PeeCee's is that you're either stuck with a *nix variant or Windows. For real day-to-day, get work done usage, they're both too high maintenance and cumbersome in comparison to OS X

Also, not true. I have a much easier time finding my way around Windows than I do OSX. Why? Because I use it more often and have for years. But, I'm not going to go around making statements about Windows being better. Why again? Because I realize that this is a completely subjective comparison and, 9 times out of 10, it's an asinine one.

Originally Posted by ElRay

And like it or not, with Windows, you (still) do have virus issues. Windows 7 is less bad, but it's still an insecure OS in comparison to OS X and *nix variants.

Ray

I've never had a single virus on my PC and I'm not exactly tiptoeing around and being careful when it comes to where I go online and what I download. Quite frankly, it takes either A) absolutely abysmal luck or B) concerted stupidity to end up with virus issues (and, yes, I'm saying there's a large number of people out there that are stupid). Not to mention, it has nothing to do with security. As has been hammered into the ground, the only reason there's not more assholes making viruses that target macs is because, well, there's not as many out there. Plain and simple.

Ugh... every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in.

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by ElRay

Only if you DIY it, which the OP may have no interest in doing.

If you're comparing brand name to brand name, Macs are often cheaper for equivalent machines. You can't compare a Yugo and Mercedes and say they're equivalent just because they both have four doors and the same trunk volume.

Also, the number one problem with PeeCee's is that you're either stuck with a *nix variant or Windows. For real day-to-day, get work done usage, they're both too high maintenance and cumbersome in comparison to OS X

And like it or not, with Windows, you (still) do have virus issues. Windows 7 is less bad, but it's still an insecure OS in comparison to OS X and *nix variants.

Ray

DIY ain't no problem to me, BITCH! [lOl too much kidding], and finally someone understood me, that's why I wanna buy a Mac. But, 'cause of this post, now I got a serious doubt. Here, guys made the Mac looks like some kind of calculator near a PC. It seems that people who like PC are for ever anti-Mac and people who like Mac are anti-PC. C'mon guys! You like Ferrari and Lamborghini the same but bitch 'cause of Microsoft and Apple!

[KingAenarion]

Originally Posted by IshiiKurisu

DIY ain't no problem to me, BITCH! [lOl too much kidding], and finally someone understood me, that's why I wanna buy a Mac. But, 'cause of this post, now I got a serious doubt. Here, guys made the Mac looks like some kind of calculator near a PC. It seems that people who like PC are for ever anti-Mac and people who like Mac are anti-PC. C'mon guys! You like Ferrari and Lamborghini the same but bitch 'cause of Microsoft and Apple!

I like both equally...

I really like Mac Laptops, because of the Unibody on the Pros and also the great battery life. I haven't found any other manufacturer that makes Laptops that are as good

The desktops Mac make are really well made, but they cost way too friggin much. To get the same specs on a Mac Pro as my current Desktop I have to spend over $9000 which is ....ing insane considering this machine cost me less than a third of that.

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by KingAenarion

I like both equally...

I really like Mac Laptops, because of the Unibody on the Pros and also the great battery life. I haven't found any other manufacturer that makes Laptops that are as good

The desktops Mac make are really well made, but they cost way too friggin much. To get the same specs on a Mac Pro as my current Desktop I have to spend over $9000 which is ....ing insane considering this machine cost me less than a third of that.

That's why I wanna buy the Mac Mini, 'cause it's cheap and has enough specs to fulfill my needs, but a PC here at the same price isn't so good. You guys are lucky to live in US or Europe; it's expensive for you but is way cheaper for us. If I had my money where you live... Anyways,

Thanks, folks!

[controversyking]

I am a Mac Fanatic and will try to sell people on them all the time if they are looking for a great computing experience.

HOWEVER

If you are looking for a BUDGET RECORDING solution...

you're probably better off keeping your OS... throwing some more RAM in and buying a decent audio card/interface

Mac OSX/garageband are great tools, but there is some amount of cash your putting in just for the opportunity cost of switching OS's: if you want the cheapest option then you do not want this.


From your description though, it kind of seems that you just want a new computer and are just done with your old Dell (which I totally understand =p)... If that's the case then go ahead and get the mac mini, because while it isn't the absolute cheapest route to a decent recording setup... you use a computer for A LOT more than just recording, and getting a computer you enjoy is probably a better use of cash =p

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by controversyking

I am a Mac Fanatic and will try to sell people on them all the time if they are looking for a great computing experience.

HOWEVER

If you are looking for a BUDGET RECORDING solution...

you're probably better off keeping your OS... throwing some more RAM in and buying a decent audio card/interface

Mac OSX/garageband are great tools, but there is some amount of cash your putting in just for the opportunity cost of switching OS's: if you want the cheapest option then you do not want this.


From your description though, it kind of seems that you just want a new computer and are just done with your old Dell (which I totally understand =p)... If that's the case then go ahead and get the mac mini, because while it isn't the absolute cheapest route to a decent recording setup... you use a computer for A LOT more than just recording, and getting a computer you enjoy is probably a better use of cash =p

I want a new computer not just for recording, but for work [all I need is a good Word-like app] and for diary home [downloading stuff and Internet] use; if I haven't been clear about my needs [Controversyking FTW at GUESSING lOl ]. And I wanna test a Mac, but it's too expensive to test it, 'cause there's the chance of disliking it. That's why it's a serious post for me.

According to software, I've already put in my shopping list a new recording program, 'cause I'm used to what I've been working with [Propellerhead Reason/Record], although it's not a bad idea to me trying to get into new options like the Logic or ProTools.

It seems like you've already owned a Mac. If you do...
It's a good computer to be used? Does it slow down like PCs after some time using? Is maintance in case of emergency expensive or are there cheaper solutions?

[Randomist]

Originally Posted by ElRay

Only if you DIY it, which the OP may have no interest in doing.

If you're comparing brand name to brand name, Macs are often cheaper for equivalent machines. You can't compare a Yugo and Mercedes and say they're equivalent just because they both have four doors and the same trunk volume.

Also, the number one problem with PeeCee's is that you're either stuck with a *nix variant or Windows. For real day-to-day, get work done usage, they're both too high maintenance and cumbersome in comparison to OS X

And like it or not, with Windows, you (still) do have virus issues. Windows 7 is less bad, but it's still an insecure OS in comparison to OS X and *nix variants.

Ray

I don't know about the USA, or Brazil, but here in the UK macs are MUCH more expensive than either off the shelf or custom/diy PCs with similar specs/performance. I've also seen benchmarks and like-for-like tests showing that with near enough identical hardware, OSX is SLOWER than windows 7.

as for being "stuck with a *nix variant or windows" There are a huge range of very good *nix variants that are free and can be very quick if you want to learn them or easy if you don't. I'm using Arch Linux now but also have various other OS's including 2 win 7 installs which i enjoy and haven't slowed down. Also OSX is a "*nix variant." I have tried OSX and was severely dissapointed. It felt like using linux with all of my options removed.

As for high maintainance, they're just not. On modern machines with multiple cores the work generally runs in the background on a free core while you stalk people on myface or post meaningless sentences on twitter.

Windows 7 is actually much more secure than OSX, its just got a bigger market share. Mac's are very often infected too, but they just act as carriers because the real targets are windows PCs. For this reason every mac connected to the web SHOULD really use an antivirus. The same goes for linux, unix etc, which are only as secure as you make them. A hardened install of gentoo with all the precautions taken is pretty bombproof, but that can have limitations in useability too.

on a side note I am often amused by the "exciting new features" of mac and windows. recently there have been a lot ripped directly from linux, like dragging to the top to maximise, or side to fill half the screen. For mac it was workspaces, its been a feature of X server for as long as i remember. OSX, which uses X server, though a horribly hacked and bastardized version, just fixed a part that they'd previously broken.

sorry for the rant

EDIT: sorry I should point out, I'm not anti mac, and for a lot of people the drawbacks in value and choice are made up for with aesthetics, and an OS that they feel is more streemlined. The drawbacks and advantages of security really apply to all of the systems and in the end it comes down to personal preference. And if its a DAW machine, the software you choose. There is a very good article on tweakheadz I'd advise reading: http://www.tweakheadz.com/Mac_vs_Pc_DAWS.htm

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by Randomist

I don't know about the USA, or Brazil, but here in the UK macs are MUCH more expensive than either off the shelf or custom/diy PCs with similar specs/performance. I've also seen benchmarks and like-for-like tests showing that with near enough identical hardware, OSX is SLOWER than windows 7.

as for being "stuck with a *nix variant or windows" There are a huge range of very good *nix variants that are free and can be very quick if you want to learn them or easy if you don't. I'm using Arch Linux now but also have various other OS's including 2 win 7 installs which i enjoy and haven't slowed down. Also OSX is a "*nix variant." I have tried OSX and was severely dissapointed. It felt like using linux with all of my options removed.

As for high maintainance, they're just not. On modern machines with multiple cores the work generally runs in the background on a free core while you stalk people on myface or post meaningless sentences on twitter.

Windows 7 is actually much more secure than OSX, its just got a bigger market share. Mac's are very often infected too, but they just act as carriers because the real targets are windows PCs. For this reason every mac connected to the web SHOULD really use an antivirus. The same goes for linux, unix etc, which are only as secure as you make them. A hardened install of gentoo with all the precautions taken is pretty bombproof, but that can have limitations in useability too.

on a side note I am often amused by the "exciting new features" of mac and windows. recently there have been a lot ripped directly from linux, like dragging to the top to maximise, or side to fill half the screen. For mac it was workspaces, its been a feature of X server for as long as i remember. OSX, which uses X server, though a horribly hacked and bastardized version, just fixed a part that they'd previously broken.

sorry for the rant

EDIT: sorry I should point out, I'm not anti mac, and for a lot of people the drawbacks in value and choice are made up for with aesthetics, and an OS that they feel is more streemlined. The drawbacks and advantages of security really apply to all of the systems and in the end it comes down to personal preference. And if its a DAW machine, the software you choose. There is a very good article on tweakheadz I'd advise reading: Which is Best for Music? Mac Vs. PC

1 The article is really helpful, although I go on wanting a Mac.
2 I think the price difference for an average Windows and the Mac Mini in UK is similar to the one in Brasil [I write Brasil with S 'cause I'm brazilian and here, Brasil with Z is the worst ortographic mistake ever, sorry if you don't like that, but I don't feel comfortable writing this way, with Z], but it's something that, for the money I'm saving, it won't be a problem if I choose nether Windows or Mac 'cause of price.
3 The problem of using a variant is that not all the variants accept all the apps I need/want/will want. I've already used Linux; it's a nice system, but there aren't so much apps here for them, and people here bitch to get some programs for Mac and Windows, imagine for Linux.
4 Free *nix variant? Is there one?

[Mordacain]

Originally Posted by IshiiKurisu

1 The article is really helpful, although I go on wanting a Mac.
2 I think the price difference for an average Windows and the Mac Mini in UK is similar to the one in Brasil [I write Brasil with S 'cause I'm brazilian and here, Brasil with Z is the worst ortographic mistake ever, sorry if you don't like that, but I don't feel comfortable writing this way, with Z], but it's something that, for the money I'm saving, it won't be a problem if I choose nether Windows or Mac 'cause of price.
3 The problem of using a variant is that not all the variants accept all the apps I need/want/will want. I've already used Linux; it's a nice system, but there aren't so much apps here for them, and people here bitch to get some programs for Mac and Windows, imagine for Linux.
4 Free *nix variant? Is there one?

*nix variant refers to any Unix derivative, OSX, FreeBSD, Solaris, HP-UX, the thousands of various Linux distros and other Unix derived OSs's I can't recall at the present

Linux software is virtually all free and there are lots of options for software of virtually every kind. As far as raw value is concerned, you can't beat a nice Linux distro (say Ubuntu).

That being said, for DAW purposes I'm digging Reaper, but I think I would like Logic just as much, if not more.

Personally, were it my choice, a mac mini would not be it. I'd save up a bit more and get an Imac or Macbook.

[Leon]

I think you guys are confusing 'performance' with 'specs'

[KingAenarion]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think you guys are confusing 'performance' with 'specs'

Although those two things are not mutually exclusive... remember that...

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think you guys are confusing 'performance' with 'specs'

I've already realized that...

[IshiiKurisu]

Originally Posted by Mordacain

*nix variant refers to any Unix derivative, OSX, FreeBSD, Solaris, HP-UX, the thousands of various Linux distros and other Unix derived OSs's I can't recall at the present

Linux software is virtually all free and there are lots of options for software of virtually every kind. As far as raw value is concerned, you can't beat a nice Linux distro (say Ubuntu).

That being said, for DAW purposes I'm digging Reaper, but I think I would like Logic just as much, if not more.

Personally, were it my choice, a mac mini would not be it. I'd save up a bit more and get an Imac or Macbook.

When I used Linux, I had an Ubuntu, original from Brasil [although it was a friend of mine who brought it from Finland, I think]. Is it as good as it was 6 years later?

Reaper as recording software? I've never heard about it, sorry. =[ I'll look for it later...

Here, the Mac Mini costs about $2000 plus $500 of mouse, keys, etc. etc.. The cheaper Macbook is $3000, and iMac is $5000.
My whole payment is about $500, depends on how much work I do, but after taxes, food, bills and gas, about only $100 remains free to me. I CAN'T WAIT!

[Mordacain]

Originally Posted by IshiiKurisu

When I used Linux, I had an Ubuntu, original from Brasil [although it was a friend of mine who brought it from Finland, I think]. Is it as good as it was 6 years later?

Reaper as recording software? I've never heard about it, sorry. =[ I'll look for it later...

Here, the Mac Mini costs about $2000 plus $500 of mouse, keys, etc. etc.. The cheaper Macbook is $3000, and iMac is $5000.
My whole payment is about $500, depends on how much work I do, but after taxes, food, bills and gas, about only $100 remains free to me. I CAN'T WAIT!

Ubuntu is easily the best Linux distro I've used and I've tried dozens upon dozens over the years. Its been continuously improved to the point that I could use it for 90% of my computer uses. I've got a very few programs that I need Windows for and of course all my gaming is done on Windows.

If my next motherboard more easily supports a multiboot environment I'll run Linux in tandem with Windows and only use Win when I have to.

Those prices you quoted are pretty scary, that sucks man.