.... 9/11 conspiracy theorists... for not going far enough.

[leftyguitarjoe]

Originally Posted by E Lucevan Le Stelle

Yeah, those are actual posters which the Government put up in London...

So what? You're in public.

[Pauly]

I love this site, seeing as all evidence is sourced and linked.
Conspiracy Science - Conspiracies and Myths Refuted, Debunked, and Explained

This one is also very good:
Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage

[Scar Symmetry]

watched a film called United 93 last night, it's about the 4th plane than never made it to it's destination, essential viewing.

definitely a moving piece of cinema, but if you can stomach it, it's worth the payoff.

I've never been so shaken up by a film before.

[Scar Symmetry]

David Icke argues that reptilian, shape-shifting extraterrestrial humanoids are responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to Icke, a reptilian global elite is behind all things that occur in the world. According to Phoenix New Times, "Icke is part of a virulent strain of anti-Semitism that runs throughout the 9/11 conspiracy crowd." Icke's theories are rejected by 911blogger.com and other conspiracy theory sites.

David Icke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Icke states that most organised religions, especially Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, are Illuminati creations designed to divide and conquer the human race through endless conflicts. In a similar vein, Icke believes racial and ethnic divisions are an illusion promoted by the reptilians, and that racism fuels the Illuminati agenda.

the guy is a ....ing nut.

[Adam Of Angels]

What's strange is that I've read other stuff from Icke that was extremelly level headed and of high quality - I had a book by him and I was reading along all like , and then I got to the reptilian stuff and was a bit worried/confused/wtf'ing. On one hand, maybe he's right... on the other hand, holy shit, wtf?

[Scar Symmetry]

well, he is from the Isle of Wight...

[Scar Symmetry]

bumping this.

today I came across an article that all 4000 Jewish employees of the World Trade Center were all absent on the day of the attacks... if that's true, that is extremely suspicious.

I watched United 93 and felt utterly compelled to no longer believe that 9/11 was an inside job but now I'm angry at myself for being so media influenced.

I genuinely believe this is the most important subject matter in the world today, I'm sure I'm not the only one who sick of running in circles with this thing and never getting anywhere.

[Adam Of Angels]

I have some things to say about this, but will most likely sound crazy so I'm reluctant.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

I have some things to say about this, but will most likely sound crazy so I'm reluctant.

no, please do. I really think this needs discussing and to be covered from different points of view

[ToniS]

If a plane really hit the pentagon, why can't they release the footage of the security camera on the nearby gas-station which captured the whole thing?

That alone tells me that there's something fishy about the whole thing, not even mentioning the other stuff.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by tongarr

If a plane really hit the pentagon, why can't they release the footage of the security camera on the nearby gas-station which captured the whole thing?

That alone tells me that there's something fishy about the whole thing, not even mentioning the other stuff.

I know right?

the official report stands on very weak legs.

[zimbloth]

I think brilliant comedian David Cross really summed this up best...



'...because that's what he ....ing said!'

Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry

bumping this.

today I came across an article that all 4000 Jewish employees of the World Trade Center were all absent on the day of the attacks... if that's true, that is extremely suspicious.

You've really been reading too much internet bullshit. A lot of Jews died on 9/11 - both in the planes and the WTC. That's an indisputable fact. This childish myth was debunked in a really interesting documentary I saw not too long ago. They interviewed a bunch of families of Jewish loved ones who perished that day. They were like "I wish that was true, then I'd have my daughter back" etc. It's pretty easy to go through the list of names and find obvious ones.

I give about as much credence to half of these absurd theories as the 'the devil showed himself in the explosions' rubbish. A lot of the stuff in this thread is so 2002. Let's move on already. I honestly don't think our Gov't is nearly clever enough to pull off something as elaborate like this. Giving these people way too much credit.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by zimbloth

You've really been reading too much internet bullshit. A lot of Jews died on 9/11 - both in the planes and the WTC. That's an indisputable fact. This childish myth was debunked in a really interesting documentary I saw not too long ago. They interviewed a bunch of families of Jewish loved ones who perished that day. They were like "I wish that was true, then I'd have my daughter back" etc. It's pretty easy to go through the list of names and find obvious ones.

you may be right, but this is the frustrating thing, where else can I research this information?

there is a lot of unanswered questions and I'm surprised more people don't want to know what really happened.

Bush said he saw the first plane crash on TV. fact. this is impossible, he was lying.

Rumsfeld said that the United 93 flight was shot down. fact. how could this be if the official report says otherwise? he was lying too, or the official report was.

the US Government couldn't account for $2.3 Trillion of spending, next day... 9/11. coincidence?

the Bush Administration was shady to say the least and although it may be a lot to ask, I wouldn't knowing hard facts; the truth.

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry

you may be right, but this is the frustrating thing, where else can I research this information?

Yeah I know man, it's tough. The internet is full of so much bullshit its hard to weed through the crap and find reliable information. I also know how easy it is to get sucked in by compelling conspiracy videos/websites sometimes. However, 99.9% of it is pure rubbish which can be easily debunked.

If you really want to research this, I'd start with reports from reputable journalists not random bloggers with no sources. There are some very good documentaries out there that has an incredible amount of 1st hand accounts and inside information. I remember seeing a PBS documentarily not too long ago called "Bush's War" or something. It was pretty scathing and had a lot of 9/11 info that makes you see things in a different light. A lot of it is depressing, but it also makes the idea of a 'attack on our own people' thing seem ridiculous.

Also, be more cognizant of agendas. When you see stuff like the "no jews died on 9/11" thing, it should be obvious whats behind that.

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if our gov't was negligent and perhaps wanted something like that to happen, in order to implement new laws and further the Neo-Con agenda. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if they shot down Flight 93 and made up the whole thing about how the passengers staged a heroic fight against the terrorists to rally us. However, I think the stuff about bombing the WTC and all that to be over-the-top and lacking credible evidence.

Honestly, I think there's way more evidence to support the presence of UFOs/aliens than any of this 'inside job' 9/11 stuff.

[Scar Symmetry]

all I know is that some of the smartest people I know believe it's an inside job and I'm pretty sure I do too.

it's the American Government's fault that these theories are alive becuase the information they gave us was so little and does not add up the way they says it does.

also, the keeping of videos and reports begs the question why they would do this.

[arktan]

Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry

the question why they would do this.

And today on the 11th of September 2009 we still have no clue of what happened.

My guess is that it is the famous repetition of history.

See:

The Maine Incident USS Maine (ACR-1) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gleiwitz incident Gleiwitz incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gulf of Tonkin incident Gulf of Tonkin Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Saddam's WMD's

and countless other incidents which i'm too lazy to look for.

[wannabguitarist]

Originally Posted by arktan

Saddam's WMD's

See, I've never really understood that one. We went into Afghanistan first. I also think Bush didn't need 9/11 to go after Saddam, I mean he had the public pretty convinced about those "WMDs." And didn't he bomb some shit outside of Baghdad sometime early in 2001 for no reason?

Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry

Bush said he saw the first plane crash on TV. fact. this is impossible, he was lying.

Did he really?

Rumsfeld said that the United 93 flight was shot down. fact. how could this be if the official report says otherwise? he was lying too, or the official report was.

Where did he say this?

the US Government couldn't account for $2.3 Trillion of spending, next day... 9/11. coincidence?

Spending on what? I don't see how spending money after a national crisis is shady

the Bush Administration was shady to say the least and although it may be a lot to ask, I wouldn't knowing hard facts; the truth

I agree here

The issue I have with a lot of the "inside job" stuff is they say "so-and-so" said this, but there's no source or anything to use for fact checking other than some other poorly done blog. And it's almost impossible to have a discussion with these people because every time you attempt to refute a point they scream "BUT THAT IS A GOVERNMENT BACKED SOURCE!!"

[Pauly]

Originally Posted by Pauly

I love this site, seeing as all evidence is sourced and linked.
Conspiracy Science - Conspiracies and Myths Refuted, Debunked, and Explained

This one is also very good:
Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage

Adding another, the James Randi forums. Lots of intellectuals and talented thinkers, they have a specific subforum for this stuff I believe:
James Randi Educational Foundation
http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=91

[Scar Symmetry]

as for they spending, they don't know where the money went, they can't account for the money. it was going to be all over the news that the Government had spent this $2.3 Trillion and couldn't account for it - 9/11 happened the following day.

I would call that shady personally.

I find it impossible to have a decent discussion about 9/11 because there is so little concrete evidence, so really either side doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

[wannabguitarist]

Ah, I misunderstood you and thought you said that money was spent after 9/11.

I've never seen those videos before

[ddtonfire]

Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry

19 seconds sounds ridiculously out of context.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by ddtonfire

19 seconds sounds ridiculously out of context.

does it?

why would he say 'shot down' if it was crashed by the terrorists as we are lead to believe?

[Pauly]

Presuming you believe the hijacked planes were allowed to carry out their kamikaze runs by the Government, an explanation is therefore needed as to why they would then shoot down their own attack plane before it reached it's target (unlike the other 3 planes). This is what ends up being one of the dumber aspects of this claim. Let's suppose, for a minute, that Flight 93 was shot down. Given the whole story of "it was on its way to crash into the Capitol building in Washington DC," why would the government deny they shot it down? Particularly, given that it crashed in a remote, unpopulated area? They also quite publically scrambled jets out that day after grounding civilian aircraft with the intention of shooting down any further threats, so why then not just admit they'd had to bring down a plane? If they had done it, they would have given themselves a sombre pat on the back for successfully neutralizing the threat.

Then there's the Flight Data Recorder report, which indicates the aircraft was perfectly intact and functioning well at the moment of impact. Not only that, but the cockpit voice recorder shows that the terrorists were in control of the plane and purposefully decided to crash it when they realized the passengers were going to get to them.

Then of course, there's the eyewitness accounts, many of which can actually be found on some Conspiracy websites themselves! These quotes all came with links but unfortunately many of them are now dud, I'm sure some Googling on the ones with names a least will bring more joy:
http://911debunker.livejournal.com/8226.html

Nobody reported seeing the plane suffering missile damage (which is unrealistic anyway as a direct hit would have caused the plane to break up in the air) and if you check any photos of the crash site (either official or media reported), you can clearly see the impact crater and where the wings hit.


Can provide citations for whatever but zzz tired, bed.

http://911debunker.livejournal.com/6447.html
http://911debunker.livejournal.com/6731.html
http://911debunker.livejournal.com/8494.html

[Adam Of Angels]

^The only way you can ask why the "kamikazee planes" would get shot down instead of reaching their destination is if you are already assuming that there would be a good reason for the government to take out the World Trade Center buildings. I'm not so much under the impression that the buildings themselves are an essential ingredient as I am that the whole thing is part of a much bigger cover up.

For what its worth, I live near by Somerset, PA where flight 93 went down and I've talked to several different people that saw white jets flying overhead immediately following the crash.

[CrushingAnvil]

It was the Soviets

Kidding. Bush couldn't say anything publicly without it backfiring in his cute little old man face