[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by John Maynard Keynes, 1923

Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead.

[kmanick]

it just keeps getting better and better
What a moron.

[Jongpil Yun]

I've heard that the stimulus package has a spending multiplier of under one. Real good bang-for-the-buck, there.

[The Dark Wolf]

Great Keynes quote, Jong.

All of this nonsense is to prop up speculative paper. All of it. Notice - Wall Street nears a huge crisis, Uncle Sam steps in, gives a taxpayer funded bailout, bada bing, bada bam, JP Morgan acquires Bear Stearns for $2/share (it was trading for over $70 just LAST WEEK), the gov't lowers interest rates, stocks rebound...

And homeowners get shit. The American taxpayer gets shit. And the dollar falls precipitously even more, with cascading inflation. All to prop up the stock market. That's it.

[Zepp88]

So, think the next president could fix this mess?

[The Dark Wolf]

Yes and no.

It's similar to the financial crisis that led up to the Great Depression. One president did a pretty effective job of fixing that. However, the political will of the people, hence, political capital of any President, to affect the real necessary change doesn't exist yet. As long as people are able to get their Starbucks and flat screen TVs, there isn't enough... damage... in the system to warrant the kind of impetus people need to support drastic change. And drastic change is needed. It took a significant crisis the last time around. We're close, but not there yet, IMO.

[Zepp88]

Nice points, this certainly isn't the Great Depression, but I feel like we're on the road to it. I'm not very knowledgable on the subject of finance, but it seems that a move like this could majorly fuck shit up, as has been stated.

And the cost of living is high enough....



C'mon Obama!!!

[lordofthesewers]

Here is the solution of how i see it:

1) tighter credit regulation, harsher penalties for speculative policies and such fiscal maneuvers. people need to stop buying what they can't afford and borrow more than they can pay back. this is to avoid another mortgage mess and credit crunch. The economy slows down when you have to pay debt, cause the money doesn't go into buying shit, but into paying huge credit card bills

2) total tax code reform. Low enough taxes to keep money flowing in the economy and please rich people, high enough to pay the fucking debt and raise the dollars (thanks to the moron for that) and high enough to invest in what our country needs. I would go with a flat tax rate of 16 to up 20% depending on circumstances for everyone. Doesn't fuck the poor to hard, and taxes the rich to hell and back. It is easy to operate by the IRS and low cost, and hard to dodge.

3) balance the fucking budget. This will drive the dollar back up and will drive oil down (because oil is priced in dollars, when one goes up, the other one goes down).

4) decrease consumption of oil, the less oil we consume the better. Invest in alternative energy fuels and green collar jobs. the less oil costs, the cheaper products will be able to make in america, and less money people will have to spend on oil, but on goods that help the economy. It would also help with the trade deficits, given how much oil we import

5) give tax cuts to companies that keep and create jobs here. give tax cuts to exporters, give tax cuts to retailers that sell american goods in big proportions.

6) more free trade aka no tarrifs, but market regulations, to prevent cheap shit products from invading our market.

7) improve healthcare and decrease its costs through obama's plan so that people don't have to worry about that, but spend it on shit that drives the economy

8) end subsidies for dying industries. give subsidies to competitive industries and alternative fuels, trains, etc....


this is how i view it. And go obama! (although i break with him on a few points mentioned there)

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by lordofthesewers

2) total tax code reform. Low enough taxes to keep money flowing in the economy and please rich people, high enough to pay the fucking debt and raise the dollars (thanks to the moron for that) and high enough to invest in what our country needs. I would go with a flat tax rate of 16 to up 20% depending on circumstances for everyone. Doesn't fuck the poor to hard, and taxes the rich to hell and back. It is easy to operate by the IRS and low cost, and hard to dodge.

Flat taxes, while easier to manage, are, unfortunately, regressive.

[heffergm]

Sorry, but as much as I hate Bush and his minions of doom, there's no way I blame them entirely for the housing debacle currently going on.

People in this country have traveled further and further down the financial path of doom as the years have gone by. Escalating debt is the obvious result (remember, an awful big portion of the national debt is held by individuals). People need to take a little personal responsibility again... gee, you bought a $500k house with an interest only loan and you make $50k a year. Sorry, but I'm old school... that's your own fucking fault, not the banks, although they obviously run a risk as well, which has led to the current nightmare.

While I'd certainly expect banks to smarten up, I really wish your average American would do the same. People are feeling a strong sense of entitlement these days, and it's biting everyone in the ass.

I freely admit that things can go sour in the current situation even for people that are more fiscally responsible, but claiming the American people have been fucked over is only partially true... they helped do it to themselves to some extent.