[Rick]

Holy hell.

[JBroll]

Guys, just because something works in Europe doesn't mean it'll work here.

Jeff

[God Hand Apostle]

You know who these shooters remind me of..?
Mike Tyson. Some of Iron Mikes famous quotes;
“I want to throw down your kid and stomp on his testicles, and then you will know what it is like to experience waking up everyday as me. And only then will you feel my pain.” "Sometimes you guys have no pride, so no matter what I say, you guys ... it doesn't affect you because you don't care about nothing but money. So every now and then I kick your f**king ass and stomp on you and put some kind of pain and inflict some of the pain on you because you deserve to feel the pain that I feel." "I have some pain I'm gonna have for the rest of my life. So every now and then I kick your f**king ass." "I just want to conquer people and their souls."

That about sums it up...

Here is a person, so miserable and in pain with themselves, and their own life that they want nothing more than for other people to hurt like them. I think that also explains the suicide ending.

[stuz719]

Originally Posted by JBroll

Guys, just because something works in Europe doesn't mean it'll work here.

Jeff

Someone should tell George W. that this reciprocal agreement doesn't work with the Middle East, either.

[The Dark Wolf]

It's so fucking easy to get a gun on the black market here in the US. It's about as hard to obtain as marijuana.

Which is to say, not hard at all.

[DDDorian]

From what I've seen, for every school shooting commited by some angsty vindictive kid there's another one perpetrated by someone who's just gone off their meds or had a breakdown and does so almost on a whim. It's easy enough to pontificate on why gun control will or won't make a difference, but the fact of the matter is that these shootings are almost commonplace in the US these days and nothing is being done, so what have you got to lose by at least attempting to tighten gun control? In my opinion, most of the prminent voices in this debate have done nothing constructive and should forfeit their right to bitch and moan until they do. Oh well.

[God Hand Apostle]

Illinois is one of the more strict states on gun control. Concealed carry is illegal. College campus is a gun free zone to everyone (except the killer). The dude stopped at one point, and fucking reloaded. I hate to be glib when talking about a situation like this, but how did that work out?

[ukfswmart]

Originally Posted by Jeff

ukswmart, it boggles my mind that people continue to think it's difficult to obtain a gun illegally in the US. The gangs here are better armed than the police much of the time. Do you think they ran out and got a permit?
If this guy was lucid enough to get a permit, then he was lucid enough to get a gun illegally as well. Furthermore, he worked at a prison. I bet he could have found a way to get a gun illegally through exposure to people there.
I'm glad things are sunshine and happiness in the UK, but severely crippling Americans' ability to get guns legally won't stop the criminals and nutjobs from getting illegally.
If they're getting them illegally, exactly how are you "taking the guns away"?
It's like the "war on drugs"; people who break the law will continue to break the law and not give a shit.
You're not going to get rid of illegal gun trade any easier than illegal drug trade, even if the government said "that's it; no one can have guns".

That is a ridiculous statement to make, quite frankly. Guns are legal and easily available in the US, so of course it's easy to obtain one illegally. How difficult is it for underage kids to get their hands on alcohol or cigarettes? All you have to do is get someone who can legally obtain them for you (or at least looks looks old enough), give them the money for it and bang, you've circumvented the law. It's the same case with guns; if you can't legally acquire one, you can quite easily have somebody purchase one for you. Restricting these substances to minors makes it more difficult (not impossible) for them to be obtained; I'll allow you to extrapolate the rest from that

Still, that bears no relation to the fact all of the people that commit these acts are mentally disturbed. You mention all the gangs with illegal weapons; do you see them capping themselves after they've killed someone? No, because they're using their weapons as a way of life; these people are using them as a way out of life, and want to take a bunch of people with them. As DDDorian said, some of this is premeditated (and thus somewhat lucid), but other cases are down to someone losing control of their mind as a result of not taking their medication, or even from an undiagnosed mental condition. Sure, gun control will do little to prevent those who are determined to go out and shoot people, and at no point did I ever state that it would, but opportunist attacks like this would be reduced if access to legal firearms was not so widespread

Things aren't 'sunshine and happiness' over here man, don't be like that. The fact is that, since gun laws were tightened up, gun crime has dropped. What about that is so difficult to understand?

[Hawksmoor]

Originally Posted by ukfswmart

That is a ridiculous statement to make, quite frankly. Guns are legal and easily available in the US, so of course it's easy to obtain one illegally. How difficult is it for underage kids to get their hands on alcohol or cigarettes? All you have to do is get someone who can legally obtain them for you (or at least looks looks old enough), give them the money for it and bang, you've circumvented the law. It's the same case with guns; if you can't legally acquire one, you can quite easily have somebody purchase one for you. Restricting these substances to minors makes it more difficult (not impossible) for them to be obtained; I'll allow you to extrapolate the rest from that

Still, that bears no relation to the fact all of the people that commit these acts are mentally disturbed. You mention all the gangs with illegal weapons; do you see them capping themselves after they've killed someone? No, because they're using their weapons as a way of life; these people are using them as a way out of life, and want to take a bunch of people with them. As DDDorian said, some of this is premeditated (and thus somewhat lucid), but other cases are down to someone losing control of their mind as a result of not taking their medication, or even from an undiagnosed mental condition. Sure, gun control will do little to prevent those who are determined to go out and shoot people, and at no point did I ever state that it would, but opportunist attacks like this would be reduced if access to legal firearms was not so widespread

Things aren't 'sunshine and happiness' over here man, don't be like that. The fact is that, since gun laws were tightened up, gun crime has dropped. What about that is so difficult to understand?

There are no miracle solutions. I remember that in the UK a couple of years back gun controll was being questioned, as gangs appeared to have armed themselves with submachine guns such as the H&K mp 5. Over here in Belgium firearms are legal, up to 5 per permit after psych tests and vetting... But a reporter prooved that you could buy a perfectly fuctioning Tsjech AKM ( Kalasjnikov) for 100€. Guns are, however, unpopular as the political current mainstream is pacifist.
The US on the other hand have a whole gun-culture, that borders on gun-religion for some. It's different... It's also how society regards violence as a means to an end... If violence is considered as viable troubleshooting mechanism, violence will be used more often. With the violent tools that come with it.
These are depressing times for a lot of people, there's not a lot of hope around. Maybe that, should be adressed too?

[Jeff]

Ukfswmart, we're going to have to agree to disagree here. With all due respect, you have absolutely no idea how easy it is to get completely illegal substances or weapons in this country. We can't even keep out entire human beings from coming into the country.
Furthermore, there are 3 cops in my wife's family, and my best friend has run security for malls across the country. the number of gun crimes where the perp has obtained the weapon legally in their experience is extremely small.
Also, my best friend now is head of security for Arizona, Texas, and Illinois. Guess which ones have the lower crimes? The states where you can carry concealed.
Let me repeat; I am not a "gun guy". I don't like guns, don't want one now or ever. But just as you can argue your point, it can be argued the other way too, as it applies to the US. The answer in these circumstances isn't the guns, but why someone so disturbed isn't hospitalized before he hurts someone.
Would it have been less tragic if he walked in with a homemade bomb strapped to his chest and blew up the whole classroom? Hey, at least it wouldn't have been those evil guns, right?

Also, This was not an "opportunist" attack; he had planned it for at least 5 days. He was quite lucid enough to obtain a gun in advance, legally or illegally.