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Unread 02-04-2008, 08:20 PM   #26
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Not much to add to what everyone else has said really you've all already covered most of what I was planning to write, Stitchy in particular ( ).
At my last job at the hospital in Camberwell I had to use a hygenic hand-rub every time I ....ing sneezed for Christ's sake; that's how stringent you have to be about hygene in these places, and it's not being anal, it really is insanely ....ing important given how many times in the past few years there've been out-breaks of bugs in hospitals that've left multiple people dead. How any of these women ever even graduated from medical school is totally beyond me if they can't even wrap their heads round something as simple as that.
I can see a few possible solutions for this;

1) None of these women are allowed to go to work anymore unless a brother or husband accompanying them, if they're that devoted to the tenants of Islam. Oh and they should be flogged if they do ever display an inch of skin to a patient.
2) Next time there's another outbreak in a hospital they can go and explain personally to all the people who've lost relatives why it's so important that their forearms remain covered.

Realistically though, does anyone remember that teaching assistant who refused to remove her veil when she was teaching the students one-on-one and subsequently lost her case for wrongful dismissal when the court decided that it did in fact make her totally unsuitable for that particular career?
The Muslim community in the UK's gotten progressively worse these past few years for constantly demanding preferential treatment in every aspect of their lives, but there is the occasional piece of evidence that people are wising up to it and slowly becoming less willing to pander to them. There'll be lots of whining and moaning for a while, but (hopefully) it won't amount to anything and these women will find themselves unemployed in the very-near future.

As an aside, it seems to be Muslim women who're the most prone to this sort of behaviour. There was another story in the London papers a couple of months ago about a Muslim girl who'd been turned down for a series of hairdressing job and decided that she'd been unfairly discriminated against for wearing a headscarf and ended up suing the woman who'd apparently 'hurt her feelings the most'. Can't remember what came of that one...
What ....s me off the most about it is that they're happy to live in a country where they're allowed to have a proper education, earn their own money, leave the house unaccompanied, and will have the law on their side if they're beaten or raped, all things that they wouldn't be afforded in most Islamic countries, and yet they continue to act like they're being unfairly persecuted when the rest of the country won't pander to the parts of the Islamic faith they still choose to follow.

Define 'well-adjusted'...

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Unread 02-04-2008, 11:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distressed_romeo View Post
Not much to add to what everyone else has said really you've all already covered most of what I was planning to write, Stitchy in particular ( ).
At my last job at the hospital in Camberwell I had to use a hygenic hand-rub every time I ....ing sneezed for Christ's sake; that's how stringent you have to be about hygene in these places, and it's not being anal, it really is insanely ....ing important given how many times in the past few years there've been out-breaks of bugs in hospitals that've left multiple people dead. How any of these women ever even graduated from medical school is totally beyond me if they can't even wrap their heads round something as simple as that.
I can see a few possible solutions for this;

1) None of these women are allowed to go to work anymore unless a brother or husband accompanying them, if they're that devoted to the tenants of Islam. Oh and they should be flogged if they do ever display an inch of skin to a patient.
2) Next time there's another outbreak in a hospital they can go and explain personally to all the people who've lost relatives why it's so important that their forearms remain covered.

Realistically though, does anyone remember that teaching assistant who refused to remove her veil when she was teaching the students one-on-one and subsequently lost her case for wrongful dismissal when the court decided that it did in fact make her totally unsuitable for that particular career?
The Muslim community in the UK's gotten progressively worse these past few years for constantly demanding preferential treatment in every aspect of their lives, but there is the occasional piece of evidence that people are wising up to it and slowly becoming less willing to pander to them. There'll be lots of whining and moaning for a while, but (hopefully) it won't amount to anything and these women will find themselves unemployed in the very-near future.

As an aside, it seems to be Muslim women who're the most prone to this sort of behaviour. There was another story in the London papers a couple of months ago about a Muslim girl who'd been turned down for a series of hairdressing job and decided that she'd been unfairly discriminated against for wearing a headscarf and ended up suing the woman who'd apparently 'hurt her feelings the most'. Can't remember what came of that one...
What ....s me off the most about it is that they're happy to live in a country where they're allowed to have a proper education, earn their own money, leave the house unaccompanied, and will have the law on their side if they're beaten or raped, all things that they wouldn't be afforded in most Islamic countries, and yet they continue to act like they're being unfairly persecuted when the rest of the country won't pander to the parts of the Islamic faith they still choose to follow.
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Unread 02-04-2008, 11:18 PM   #28
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Welcome to Florida, where someone will look at you funny for not speaking Spanish when they can't speak English.
I think it's more shock than anything There like "que?"

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Unread 02-04-2008, 11:34 PM   #29
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I think it's more shock than anything There like "que?"
Well, you're closer to Miami. Up here I get the silent look, like they're expecting me to just repeat myself in Spanish for them like some automated recording.
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Unread 02-04-2008, 11:39 PM   #30
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Well, you're closer to Miami. Up here I get the silent look, like they're expecting me to just repeat myself in Spanish for them like some automated recording.
I blame the USA not the spanish people.

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Unread 02-04-2008, 11:56 PM   #31
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I blame the USA not the spanish people.
If you're gonna live here, learn English, IMO. There are a couple Egyptian people at my work, and in the 3 years or so they've been here they've done an awesome job of learning English. Yet we have some people that have been in the USA for decades who hardly know how to form one sentence.

I blame the fact that it doesn't seem to be expected to learn English anymore. Instead we expect people living in Florida and Texas to learn Spanish.
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Unread 02-04-2008, 11:59 PM   #32
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Man, the human race is so diverse. On one end we have people pushing for progress. On the other we have people running from it.

There should be some kind of middle ground that is agreed upon by these women for going into the medical profession.

If you are willing to risk your patients lives for your religious beliefs, you have no right to be in medicine.
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Unread 02-05-2008, 12:03 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toshiro View Post
If you're gonna live here, learn English, IMO. There are a couple Egyptian people at my work, and in the 3 years or so they've been here they've done an awesome job of learning English. Yet we have some people that have been in the USA for decades who hardly know how to form one sentence.

I blame the fact that it doesn't seem to be expected to learn English anymore. Instead we expect people living in Florida and Texas to learn Spanish.
and again I blame the USA cause we haven't/don't force people to learn it and instead we make it easier for them not too.

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Unread 02-05-2008, 12:38 AM   #34
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Wasn't it the UK that was trying to get doctors to stop wearing ties and such because of the risk of infection?
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Unread 02-05-2008, 01:02 AM   #35
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Unread 02-05-2008, 01:24 AM   #36
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....ing douchebags. I could give a shit about their religion. We already have so many problems with hand washing compliance in the medical community -- something that would save a ton of lives -- and given that we're slowly but surely moving into a post-antibacterial age, losing one drug after another to shit like multiply resistant staph. aureus and pan-resistant TB, you'd think some people could get their priorities straight.

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Unread 02-05-2008, 03:04 AM   #37
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Now I don't want to be anykind rasist, but this is BULLSHIT!
I'm so full of that ....in shit. If this rule gets to here, like for example in Finland, it's totally crap situation.
If anybody gets to car accident, and gets seriously damaged, I would not want to some ....in jackass to touch me with his/hers filthy fingers.
Am I the only one?

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Unread 02-05-2008, 05:57 AM   #38
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You all raise good points & I totally agree with the basis of what you are saying. However, there is one thing to bear in mind. All of the stories that have been referenced here, you have read in the paper. If you have read through any UK paper here in the last couple of years, they have been brimming with Anti-Islamic sentiment.

Whilst I don't in any way excuse events like the tube bombings etc, the media are utterly aware of the heightened level of Anti-Islamic sensitivity within the minds of the average UK citizen, so any small thing that they can pick up & run with will keep the enraged UK citizen buying their newspaper/visiting their website(viewing the embedded advertising).

You have to question, how many other important newsworthy items have been shunted lower on the agenda, to blow up a possibly microscopic issue involving 1/2 people that is current in the mind of he reader?
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Unread 02-05-2008, 06:33 AM   #39
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I think what everyone has failed to pick up on is that:

- It's the dirty sleeves which are carrying the bacteria around. You can wash your hands as much as you want, but how impractical is it to change your sleeves in between patients?

- I somehow think that with the worst record in europe on MRSA that the demands of a few people will just be completely ignored in this case, as it has to happen. Employing someone else or paying someone a few grand for unfair dismissal no matter how wrong it is instead of getting a 1/2 million pound lawsuit for neglicence looks a lot better on the balance sheet.

- Medicine is not about religion, in fact, if religion had been allowed it's hold on science, then no modern medicine would be possible, go read about the middle/dark ages. Hence religion and medicine which is, like it or not, a science, will never mix. (yeah yeah, god didn't make those medicines, some kid with years of studying molecules did, and this goes for all faiths)

- All these stories get reported just to incite anger as pointed out by lozek. In anyone's daily life it really does not matter. Personally, if i got treated by someone wearing sleeves in hospital I'd just refuse on grounds of not wanting to end up dead or a spastic because of lack of hygene

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Unread 02-05-2008, 06:53 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by 7 Dying Trees View Post
- All these stories get reported just to incite anger as pointed out by lozek. In anyone's daily life it really does not matter. Personally, if i got treated by someone wearing sleeves in hospital I'd just refuse on grounds of not wanting to end up dead or a spastic because of lack of hygene
You don't always have that choice though, you might be unconscious when they bring you in to an emergency room. That's why a medic alert bracelet would be necessary if they're allowed to endanger people. I am so ....ing glad that's happening over there and not here.
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Unread 02-05-2008, 07:00 AM   #41
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7DT and Lozek are right that the UK papers are frequently prone to scare-mongering to sell papers, but this could actually endanger peoples' lives if it's not dealt with, so right now it's not just a case of a wrongful dismisal case that'll be forgotten in a few months.

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Unread 02-05-2008, 07:39 AM   #42
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Fine, they can have that right, as long as I have the right to not have them work on me if I need medical attention. Also, the Muslim Medical Association, in order to conform to MY wishes, will have to pay for a medic alert bracelet that says "No Muslim female doctors".
This is almost exactly what I was thinking, except for the bracelet part. That's brilliant.
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Unread 02-05-2008, 08:11 AM   #43
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7DT and Lozek are right that the UK papers are frequently prone to scare-mongering to sell papers, but this could actually endanger peoples' lives if it's not dealt with, so right now it's not just a case of a wrongful dismisal case that'll be forgotten in a few months.
Thats it though. It'll all be frgotten unless people make a huge fuss of it in the first place.

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You all raise good points & I totally agree with the basis of what you are saying. However, there is one thing to bear in mind. All of the stories that have been referenced here, you have read in the paper. If you have read through any UK paper here in the last couple of years, they have been brimming with Anti-Islamic sentiment.
I think you read the Amil to much, my friend.

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Whilst I don't in any way excuse events like the tube bombings etc, the media are utterly aware of the heightened level of Anti-Islamic sensitivity within the minds of the average UK citizen, so any small thing that they can pick up & run with will keep the enraged UK citizen buying their newspaper/visiting their website(viewing the embedded advertising).

You have to question, how many other important newsworthy items have been shunted lower on the agenda, to blow up a possibly microscopic issue involving 1/2 people that is current in the mind of he reader?
I think theses are valid points but really point more towards a convoluted media that is scare mongering than much to do with this article...to me it seems far more important to sort out this issue of not 'offending muslims' versus not spreading one of the most efficient and brutal killers in hospitals of the last few years.

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- I somehow think that with the worst record in europe on MRSA that the demands of a few people will just be completely ignored in this case, as it has to happen. Employing someone else or paying someone a few grand for unfair dismissal no matter how wrong it is instead of getting a 1/2 million pound lawsuit for neglicence looks a lot better on the balance sheet.
While I'd love to agree with you, I honestly don't see this being laid to rest. I'd love to think the NHS will just go "Fine, .... off then!" but with all the PC shit from the government, pressure groups, and the muslim community themselves it could be very hard. Did you see yesterdays headlines, James? About the fact that some agency nurses and doctors are being paid as much as 122 an hour because of the lack of staff in the NHS? Or that the NHS considered raising the typical nurse salary from 14.33 to encourage more people to take it up as a profession, but decided that they couldn't afford it, and that it got in the way of targets?



Targets were the worst thing that ever happened to the NHS - that, IMO, is one of the biggest reasons for the state it is in today.

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- Medicine is not about religion, in fact, if religion had been allowed it's hold on science, then no modern medicine would be possible, go read about the middle/dark ages. Hence religion and medicine which is, like it or not, a science, will never mix. (yeah yeah, god didn't make those medicines, some kid with years of studying molecules did, and this goes for all faiths)
I think its less about medicine vs. religion and more about the Muslim community really wanting everything twisted there way, regardless of the thing they all seem to lack.

COMMON SENSE.

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- All these stories get reported just to incite anger as pointed out by lozek. In anyone's daily life it really does not matter. Personally, if i got treated by someone wearing sleeves in hospital I'd just refuse on grounds of not wanting to end up dead or a spastic because of lack of hygene
It puts it in the public domain. I don't pay attention during operational procedures, In my experience, by the time you are in the theatre you're already completely out of it on morphine or anaesthetics.

I've missed whoever it was who made the point about the Muslim community really wanting EVERYTHING there way, and constantly making out to be horribly victimised in a country that treat them FAR BETTER than they are in their 'native countries' (in quotes as some are, of course, UK-nationals).

At the end of the day, much like the hospitals should, I honestly feel we just went "Don't like it? Piss off." - not because I think we should stop caring because its 'better' than their home countries and that is acceptable, but because, in many, not all instances, I honestly feel they already get a better deal than 'normal' citizens. (Again, normal used to say the way the rest of the country is treated, so I'm using normal as a collective term for how the massive are treated - I'm not saying 'normal' to insinuate the muslim community are in anyway deformed or ill)

School uniforms, the arguments on veils etc. are all examples of this. I honestly think its time to tell them to buck up.

If a woman working for BA can be asked to remove her crucifix so as not to 'offend customers' then I think its NIGH ON TIME that we asked Muslims to remove their covering in jobs where they truly are not appropriate.

Everyone has to make sacrifices in the UK, but I've yet to see the Muslim community give up ANYTHING, and I think people are starting to resent that.
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Unread 02-05-2008, 09:10 AM   #44
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I think you read the Amil to much, my friend.
Nope, I just work for the BBC, so thoughts about media bias (even unintentional, related to workloads) are always floating around my head when I hear people talking about contemporary issues & what sources they may have used as a basis to form their opinion.


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to me it seems far more important to sort out this issue of not 'offending muslims' versus not spreading one of the most efficient and brutal killers in hospitals of the last few years.
No-one is disputing that, merely the way in which the media conveniently turn the blame to the biggest current hate figure, instead of pointing out that our government is doing a terrible job at resolving issues and our populace is not motivated enough to do anything other than idley moan.


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Everyone has to make sacrifices in the UK, but I've yet to see the Muslim community give up ANYTHING, and I think people are starting to resent that.
Please quantify that, what sacrifices have you personally had to make in the UK? What is it that you feel the Muslims are getting in this country that you are not? How many Muslims have you personally had come up to you & moan about their treatment in the UK?

Alright, so I've gone way O/T here, I agree that anyone who works in a hospital should be first & foremost required to conform to hygiene standards. It's just the muddying of the waters & the unmitigated rage that people are starting to pour on 'Muslims' as a collective that astounds me. Humans are humans, some are ....tards, some are not.
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Unread 02-05-2008, 09:14 AM   #45
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No, we're all retarded. Some of just less so.
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Unread 02-05-2008, 09:25 AM   #46
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No, we're all retarded. Some of just less so.
Uh huh
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Unread 02-05-2008, 09:57 AM   #47
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Pffft, it's hardly a Canadian trait. I mean, we had to get it from somewhere
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Unread 02-05-2008, 10:11 AM   #48
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If a woman working for BA can be asked to remove her crucifix so as not to 'offend customers'
That is ....ed up, and could be used to counter this...
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