The world is Ruined

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Yes the U.S. is hugely in debt, but we are still the number one economic power and as long as we are number one, countries will invest in us. Look at all the money we dish out in world aid, plus we are at war.

Yeah...wrong, garcia got that one.


But, doesn't war historically stimilate economy? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jongpil Yun]

What a joke. Allow me to do the grunt work for you guys one last time.

Haha nah bro, I just love hearing all these lame excuses, these are the excuses I hear all the time. Like I said before I love this country and its not blind patriotism, yeah the country is not perfect, it never was and never will be, no country is perfect but I still show support for it, I don't go around complaining and bashing our leader and saying oh man this country sucks, thats what the terrorists want they love turning on their news and seeing people bashing our government.

Our government damn well deserves criticism for shit like Guantanamo. Besides, this shit in Iraq would have been over with or never started had Bush listened to Shinseki about how many troops we would need. The laughed at him when he said we'd need at least 200k troops in Iraq to have our invasion succeed.

Pentagon Contradicts General on Iraq Occupation Force's Size - UN Security Council - Global Policy Forum
USATODAY.com - Ex-Army boss: Pentagon won't admit reality in Iraq

Any of that shit look familiar? Besides, should we do anything simply because it's the opposite of what a terrorist wants? What the .... kind of logic is that? We should do what is best, not decide policy by some blind contrarian decision making process. If the government is ....ed up, the people have the obligation to criticize it and bring about change.

You guys listen to all the liberal run media who want us to lose.

I'll ignore the "liberal run" part since I just don't want to go over that bullshit again, but they want us to lose? What the hell? Are you insane? You think they want American soldiers and civilians to die? What in the hell gave you that idea?

You guys obviously didn't vote in the last reelection.

Oh whatever. First of all I was I think 16 in 2004, and second, if proper election procedures were followed in Florida, we would never have had Bush as a president in the first place. Not only did he lose the popular vote, he lost in Florida, period, and was only "elected" because the supreme court suspended the counting.

As for Iraq not having ties to terrorism show me some proof, all those countries are tied to it over there.

How about the fact that almost every single ....ing terrorist on 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia, Osama Bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda is based mostly in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that the Taliban is from Afghanistan. Are you purposely trying to ignore the news or something? I mean, Jesus, the Bush administration's line is that most of the insurgency in Iraq is from foreign fighters from places like Syria, Jordan, and Iran. The only reason there is so much terrorist activity in Iraq now is because all the US troops are now in Iraq and they are easier to access there than in the US.

The whole point of us being in Iraq is to help these people have a better life and rebuild their country.

Oh whatever. Bush said the purpose of our invasion of Iraq is that Saddam either had or was actively trying to procure nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons and was harboring terrorists. Both of which are BS. Had Bush argued we should invade Iraq because he was an evil despot, I would have said yeah, but so is Kim Jong-Il and countless others I'd consider worse. The whole premise of the invasion is a farce. The fact is that if we left now, Iraq would be mostly ....ed, but we should have stayed in Afghanistan in the first place.

We are fighting these extremists on their own soil which is a good thing, our military is crushing them over there and they are running out of places to hide and organize, as soon as we pull out they will be able to organize in large numbers and thats not good.

They were never organizing in Iraq in the first place!

If you guys actually listen to the news Iraqi refugees are returning to their homes because it is safer there now

Oh Jesus H Christ. The UNHCR reports that 14% of them are returning because they think Iraq is saver. The vast majority are doing it because either a) Syria won't renew their visa, or b) They're too broke to stay.

IRIN Middle East | Middle East | Iraq Syria | IRAQ-SYRIA: Lack of money, visa problems prompting Iraqi refugees to return home | Economy Conflict Aid Policy Refugees/IDPs | News Item

our military is just waiting for the Iraqi government to make some decisions, now remember they have never made any decisions before or were able to vote so this is something entirely new to them, they had one man making all the decisions and if you disagreed you died.

Oh come on, the Iraqi government is a joke.

Hopefully if the Iraqi government can start getting it together we will have a strong ally over there which is what we need, then maybe the rest of the middle east will catch on and see that having individual rights such as voting, education and trading with the rest of the world is not so bad.

This line of thinking borders on nonsensical. We do not need a strong ally in the middle east to get them to stop attacking us, we need to stay the .... out of their business. The people in the middle east see the US as constantly supporting coups or setting up puppet governments and interfering in their own sovereignty, and they're half right. Look at Iran for example.

Of course this will take time because their culture is entirely different but look at what happened to japan, they were a country with an entirely different culture in which we influenced and helped become better and begin conforming to the rest of the world.

Look how many freaking US troops we had over there. Look at the huge international support for what was going on there post WW2. The situations were completely different.

They didn't completely lose their cultural traditions but they realised that if you want to make it in the world you have to conform somewhat to the majority of the world to become better.

For one thing, Japan is a very homogeneous nation. And I mean god, what in the hell does this have to do with anything. If we had wanted to properly invade and occupy Iraq, we would have needed so many more troops it's ridiculous.

By the way the U.S. has the strongest economy in the world, so I guess our economy isn't ruined. Yeah some things are messed up but we are still number one.

This barely deserves a reply. The dollar is trading at like .46 to the pound. We're trillions in debt. On the cusp of the first recession since '01. At least you're acknowledging that Bush ....ed up, but apparently you don't realize how badly.

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Seattle post, again Liberal funded media.

They're directly quoting Bush. How much room for liberal bias is there in showing a direct contradiction? My god.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

This barely deserves a reply. The dollar is trading at like .46 to the pound. We're trillions in debt. On the cusp of the first recession since '01. At least you're acknowledging that Bush ....ed up, but apparently you don't realize how badly.

Thanks for covering that one, I couldn't find any links.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by Zepp88

But, doesn't war historically stimilate economy? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The belief that war stimulates the economy is, I think, an example of the broken window fallacy.

Parable of the broken window - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I seriously doubt that it's even worth talking to this guy. How much of an effect are you going to have on someone who can write off any contrary piece of evidence as being due to liberal bias?

[TotallyBr00tal]

Originally Posted by garcia3441

..

By a comparison of GDP, the United States has the strongest economy in the world by far at over $13 trillion. The #2 ranked nation is over $8.8 trillion behind. Interestingly enough, the #2 and #3 ranked nations are Japan at #2 and Germany at #3. These are two nations that the US defeated in World War II and then rebuilt on the American principles of (1) individual freedom, (2) democratic self-government, and (3) free-market economy.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

These are two nations that the US defeated in World War II and then rebuilt on the American principles of (1) individual freedom, (2) democratic self-government, and (3) free-market economy.

And you've obviously shown you don't give a damn about any of those, since you're for the curtailing of individual freedom, buy into a president who was unjustly elected, and think that the only way we can change people's minds is by war.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

By a comparison of GDP, the United States has the strongest economy in the world by far at over $13 trillion. The #2 ranked nation is over $8.8 trillion behind. Interestingly enough, the #2 and #3 ranked nations are Japan at #2 and Germany at #3. These are two nations that the US defeated in World War II and then rebuilt on the American principles of (1) individual freedom, (2) democratic self-government, and (3) free-market economy.

WTO: China overtakes U.S. in exports - World business - MSNBC.com

China Will Replace the United States as the World’s Most Important Economy

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

The belief that war stimulates the economy is, I think, an example of the broken window fallacy.

Parable of the broken window - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I seriously doubt that it's even worth talking to this guy. How much of an effect are you going to have on someone who can write off any contrary piece of evidence as being due to liberal bias?

Thanks man, that was a really informative article which made a lot of sense.

[TotallyBr00tal]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

And you've obviously shown you don't give a damn about any of those, since you're for the curtailing of individual freedom, buy into a president who was unjustly elected, and think that the only way we can change people's minds is by war.

Curtailng of individual freedom I think our current situation may require that. Wow this statement sums up that you are the biggest lib and there is no way of changing you. So you think there was a more peaceful way of stopping the Japanese from bombing us and ending the Holocaust. Wow we would get real far with you as our leader, we might as well just give up and surrender cause I know you won't do anything.

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Curtailng of individual freedom I think our current situation may require that. Wow this statement sums up that you are the biggest lib and there is no way of changing you. So you think there was a more peaceful way of stopping the Japanese from bombing us and ending the Holocaust. Wow we would get real far with you as our leader, we might as well just give up and surrender cause I know you won't do anything.

You are wayyy hung up on the Liberal vs. Conservative pissing match. You can't see through that kind of territorial bullshit?

It's not about Liberals or Conservatives, it's about doing the RIGHT thing.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Curtailng of individual freedom I think our current situation may require that. Wow this statement sums up that you are the biggest lib and there is no way of changing you. So you think there was a more peaceful way of stopping the Japanese from bombing us and ending the Holocaust. Wow we would get real far with you as our leader, we might as well just give up and surrender cause I know you won't do anything.

Actually, I think nuking Hiroshima (not sure about Nagasaki) was the best way to end the war. Shows how much you know.

The difference, again, is that Japan is a god damned nation, and terrorism is a tactic. We went into a totally unjust pre-emptive war on a false premise, and bungled the whole thing by not sending half as many troops as we needed to because of incompetent leadership.

Second, this is a democracy. Americans have, in the past, suspended individual liberties, but get this, the Senate approved it and it was not done in secret by the executive alone.

I'm awed by your ability to read my character. If I were in Bush's place, and had decided that for some ungodly reason we needed to invade Iraq, I would have argued for sending at least 300k during the occupation to stabilize Iraq as quickly and thoroughly as possible. But I wouldn't have invaded Iraq because they had nothing to do with anything, and by doing so I would have squandered international support for our defense against extremists by ....ing with the wrong people.

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

Actually, I think nuking Hiroshima (not sure about Nagasaki) was the best way to end the war. Shows how much you know.

The difference, again, is that Japan is a god damned nation, and terrorism is a tactic. We went into a totally unjust pre-emptive war on a false premise, and bungled the whole thing by not sending half as many troops as we needed to because of incompetent leadership.

Second, this is a democracy. Americans have, in the past, suspended individual liberties, but get this, the Senate approved it and it was not done in secret by the executive alone.

I'm awed by your ability to read my character.

I further this by commenting that you can't "beat" terrorism, it's a tactic, it's a mindset and it's a constant. It's NOT going away. Look at Ireland, they've had their fair share...

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Curtailng of individual freedom I think our current situation may require that. Wow this statement sums up that you are the biggest lib and there is no way of changing you. So you think there was a more peaceful way of stopping the Japanese from bombing us and ending the Holocaust. Wow we would get real far with you as our leader, we might as well just give up and surrender cause I know you won't do anything.

President Bush noted that the terrorists targeted the United States because we embrace liberty.

“The terrorists hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other,” the president said.

And yet he (and apparently you as well) want to take those very freedoms away. Why do you and the president hate freedom and the constitution?

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by garcia3441

President Bush noted that the terrorists targeted the United States because we embrace liberty.

“The terrorists hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other,” the president said.

It's a good example of his hypocrisy, but also for the most part wrong. There are those who think Islam should rule the world and that we should all die because of our freedom of religion and speech, but those are a minority even among the extremist terrorists.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

It's a good example of his hypocrisy, but also for the most part wrong. There are those who think Islam should rule the world and that we should all die because of our freedom of religion and speech, but those are a minority even among the extremist terrorists.

And there are Bab'tists who have the same thoughts. My neighbor for one.

When you do a side by side comparison between the Islamic extremists and some of the hard-line right-wing Christians, I'm hard-pressed to find much of a difference between the two.

(I feel some neg. rep. coming my way. But oh well.)

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by garcia3441

And there are Bab'tists who have the same thoughts. My neighbor for one.

"If everyone beleieved in OUR God there would be no more war, hunger, or death"

I know what you're talking about


"Don't beleive in that God, that God is evil. THIS God has candy "

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by garcia3441

And there are Bab'tists who have the same thoughts. My neighbor for one.

Probably true, but my understanding is that most of the people killing themselves over this shit are doing it for mostly different reasons.

Originally Posted by Zepp88

"If everyone beleieved in OUR God there would be no more war, hunger, or death"

I know what you're talking about


"Don't beleive in that God, that God is evil. THIS God has candy "

See the thread in Off-Topic about the most badass bible passages. Clearly, the only way to hold a religious debate is to see whose god can smite the most people with fires of brimstone.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by Zepp88

THIS God has candy "

Candy!!!! Which God has candy? I want some candy.

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by garcia3441

Candy!!!! Which God has candy? I want some candy.

This one.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by Zepp88

This one.

I asked him for some peanut butter m&m's, but he said he was out so I won't be following him.

[Zepp88]

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Curtailng of individual freedom I think our current situation may require that. Wow this statement sums up that you are the biggest lib and there is no way of changing you. So you think there was a more peaceful way of stopping the Japanese from bombing us and ending the Holocaust. Wow we would get real far with you as our leader, we might as well just give up and surrender cause I know you won't do anything.

So instead of refuting any of his points, you again resort to "name calling", at least I guess you could call it that because you treat liberal as some kind of dirty word. And as for no way of changing him? Pot and kettle dude. You started this thread looking for any wrong doings of Bush, you have been handed a shit ton, and you just write it all off as "liberal media". Of course it's going to be liberal media reporting on it. If it was biased for the president, do you think that news organization is going to shit talk the president at all? .... no, it's going to leave details out, put a minor news article, and make it not seem like a big deal, like this, "And that's the news for tonight btwthepresidentwiretapsyourphones so good night.". Why the .... did you start this thread in the first place if you're just going to write off any evidence as liberal bias? If you're so stuck in your ways, then why bother discussing it at all?

[The Dark Wolf]

Um...

I'm guessing to be a confrontational jerk?

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

Um...

I'm guessing to be a confrontational jerk?

I guess that's as good a reason as any

[The Dark Wolf]

Heh. Good reason to get himself banned if he keeps it up, IMO.