[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

It happens occasionally. Blind patriotism and this attitude REALLY rubs me the wrong way. This is the attitude that gives the US a bad name and ss.org is usually a shining beacon of the fact that not all US citizens are like that

AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

[TotallyBr00tal]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

...That's all you came up with? I figured you would be typing for days and have a several hundred page document I think if you look through this section of the forum totallybr00tal you'll find more than enough reasons. I mean if the shit that he's doing doesn't bug you in the slightest, then you're really no better than any of the Islam extremists. They too were indoctrinated to follow exactly what their government told them. I mean I'm from fucking Canada, and I live in my own bubble of a world, yet I hear enough (generally through this site) to know that GWB is bad fucking shit. And they provide links, sometimes to the official press releases of the white house, so it's not just liberal propaganda. And there are people on here who have argued their non liberal beliefs A LOT fucking better than you. You just keep resorting to name calling, and calling everything liberal nonsense, without actually backing up your statements with any actual information, or citing ANY sources at all.

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

Blind Patriotism

[garcia3441]

Blind and reckless patriotism is dangerous for our country and world peace

# Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions.

# At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot.

# Patriotism is a kind of religion: it is the egg from which wars are hatched.

# Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

# Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

# Patriotism has become a mere national assertion, a sentimentality of flag cheering with no constructive duties.

# Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone and irrational as a headless man.

# Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

# True patriotism doesn't exclude an understanding of the patriotism of others.

# Patriotism may be defined as a sense of partisan solidarity in respect of prestige.

# No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism.

# The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations.

# When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism.

# Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudices and patriotism…extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

You're right. Patriotism is dying in this country, you know why?


There's less and less to be proud of.

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end

Translation: I cant respond with resources and links that provide factual, non bias data.

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

Nah, musicians seem to be the most successful at pointing out the social climate and bringing about social change. See the 60s and the 70s.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

Way to shrug off any argument. Liberal? Anti-everything? Whatever. You asked for reasons why Bush is one of, if not the worst president America has ever had, and you got them. Usually when people ask something like that they want to debate. You just ignore. So what's the point?

Bush has blundered in virtually every arena I can think of. Domestic policy, economics, foreign policy, and the environment. We've seen a severe degredation of freedom under a severely divided government (from the man who was supposed to be a uniter, not a divider), we've seen the dollar plummet, a record surplus turned into a record deficit, and the kind of lasting economic damage that will take several presidents to recover from. We've seen the most disastrous foreign policy since Vietnam, and a comparable level of hypocrisy when comparing campaigning rhetoric with action. We've seen a continually bad education system lagging farther and farther behind the rest of the world even though we spend massively more money per child than any other nation. We've seen a healthcare system dominated by HMOs and idiotically complex rules, while tying the hands of people who want to save lives by banning stem cell research because the Christian Right believes that a blastocyst = human being. We've seen a president absolutely enabling of pseudoscience like intelligent design. We've seen a president who refuses to do anything about global warming and wants to alter reality to fit his views. All this from a C student who never went to war, who failed every business enterprise he's attempted, who thinks he's been appointed by god.

If he's not one of the worst presidents ever, then I wonder how America got where it is today. The great men who have held his position in the past and built this country with their blood, sweat, and tears are rolling in their graves. Bush compares himself to Andrew Jackson, the hero of New Orleans? What a joke.

[TotallyBr00tal]

This is for Noodles
Religion
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics, C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson's Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.

Notwithstanding the spectrum of beliefs held by the Founding Fathers, most viewed religion in a favorable light. This is noted through their statements in speeches and correspondences in which they describe its role in molding "national morality" and securing the rule of law (George Washington), its check on human "wickedness" (Benjamin Franklin), and its preservation of a free government such as America (John Adams). Regardless, the division of church and state was always emphasized by the founding fathers. "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," states the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. This document was ratified by Congress without much debate or contention and stands today as a reminder of the founding fathers' intentions.[10]

Although not a religion, Freemasonry was represented in John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, James Mchenry, George Washington, Abraham Baldwin, Gunning Bedford, William Blount, David Brearly, Daniel Carroll, Jonathan Dayton, Rufus King, John Langdon, George Read, Roger Sherman, James Madison, Robert Morris, William Paterson, and Charles Pinckney

Paragragh two sums up my One Nation under God point. Yes it was not founded on A Religion but they all believe in a GOD.

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

This is for Noodles
Religion
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics, C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson's Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.

Notwithstanding the spectrum of beliefs held by the Founding Fathers, most viewed religion in a favorable light. This is noted through their statements in speeches and correspondences in which they describe its role in molding "national morality" and securing the rule of law (George Washington), its check on human "wickedness" (Benjamin Franklin), and its preservation of a free government such as America (John Adams). Regardless, the division of church and state was always emphasized by the founding fathers. "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," states the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. This document was ratified by Congress without much debate or contention and stands today as a reminder of the founding fathers' intentions.[10]

Although not a religion, Freemasonry was represented in John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, James Mchenry, George Washington, Abraham Baldwin, Gunning Bedford, William Blount, David Brearly, Daniel Carroll, Jonathan Dayton, Rufus King, John Langdon, George Read, Roger Sherman, James Madison, Robert Morris, William Paterson, and Charles Pinckney

Paragragh two sums up my One Nation under God point. Yes it was not founded on A Religion but they all believe in a GOD.

You are forgetting the fact that they strongly valued the need for separation of church and state.

[TotallyBr00tal]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

Translation: I cant respond with resources and links that provide factual, non bias data.



Nah, musicians seem to be the most successful at pointing out the social climate and bringing about social change. See the 60s and the 70s.

Ah the 60's and 70's the liberal is born and so the country begins to go down hill and the Everybody do whatever you want mentality is spreading.