The world is Ruined

[ohio_eric]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

torture prisoners, what about the terrorists cutting prisoners heads off and filming it thats not bad huh wow the U.S. is so bad man. Our country has slowly become weak because of sissy liberal idiots like you twisting peoples minds with foolish ideals.

Oh goodness gracious young TotallyBr00tal has resorted to name calling and other such naughty tactics. How ever shall I respond? What ever shall I do?

Shall I resort to name calling? A sissified idiot such as myself probably shouldn't encourage confrontation now should I?

So instead of silly tactics like name calling I shall respond to young TotallyBr00tal's attack with the best weapon I have, the truth.

First, now maybe you remember this from first grade or so, but just because someone else does something doesn't mean that it's ok for us to do it. Sometimes you have to take the moral high ground. Sometimes you have to rise above your enemies and treat them humanely because it is the right thing to do. Just because waterboarding isn't as bad as beheading people doesn't make it right and doesn't give anyone permission to do it.

Here's another thing, torture doesn't work. Despite what you may see on the TV torture sucks as an intelligence gathering tool. People will say anything you want to hear if you torture them long enough. I have yet to read a single assessment of torture from someone without a political slant that endorses it as a means of intelligence gathering.

Finally calling people names marks you as have no sound basis for anything you're trying to prove. So you resort to this line of if you won't kick ass for your flag you're a pussy. It's just a pointless way to think and a dangerous one around here because it will get you banned.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Okay so basically sit back don't do anything and let our enemies kill us and destroy our country, great grand wonderful, you are the ultimate liberal wacko that is ruining this country.

To give your life is the greatest sacrifice. Apparently it's not one you're willing to make. Die in the name of freedom. You're so patriotic, why don't you join the military. Not 18? Lie to the recruiters. See you in Iraqistan.

Besides, do you honestly think that the islamic fascists could ever destroy America? Do you really think they could even do more than dent us? We absolutely crushed Iraq in days. 3000 people died on 9/11. That's a pinprick. If we wanted to, we could grind Iran, Isreal, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, under our heel before they realized that their major cities had been nuked. But we don't. We don't need to, and it's against our ethic. America is the behemoth that can shrug that kind of thing off and keep going about the business of being the world's sole superpower. That's what would really show the Al Qaeda and Taliban dumbasses. Not our stupid underfunded and understaffed invasion.

If I were fatally wounded by a terrorist and Bush visited me on my deathbed pledging to compromise our freedoms and ideals, the very things that make this country great, to chase down a few dumbshit extremists running around the desert, my last words would be, ".... you you fascist asshole."

[BigM555]

Originally Posted by ohio_eric

A sissified liberal idiot such as myself probably shouldn't encourage confrontation now should I?

There, fixed that for ya.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

Shaky ground dude the founders of this country were religous and believed in God strongly. As for the Pledge of allegiance being disgusting get out bro, your a disgrace for saying that, this is what I am trying to get at the fact that people do not believe in this country anymore with all these liberal retarded ideas. As for the wiretapping, you have something to hide bro your planning something. I would rather have wiretapping than go to work one day and have a ....in plane blow it up, ok bro.

Hmm, where to begin. <cracks knuckles>

• The founding fathers of this country were predominantly Deist. I provided a link, since the entry on Conservapedia is inaccurate.
• The pledge is so blatantly, disgustingly pro-nationalism to the point of almost scaring me. Forcing kids to stand and blindly recite it is the sort of things they do in China and North Korea. Our country was founded by men who most identified with their home states, and felt that a powerful central government was the path to tyranny.
• Ideas that are liberal are not automatically retarded. Why do you think that everyone thinking and acting exactly the same is a good idea? Next thing you'll be telling me is that the problem with the middle east is that they're Arabs and therefore inferior to the rest of us humans.
• Yes, I do have things to hide. They're none of your ....ing business. They're none of the ....ing government's business. Do you think we should quarter troops for the military, too? Have you actually ever read the Constitution?
• I'd be less worried about the planes and more worried about the attack on our civil liberties, bro. "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." --Ben Franklin

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

Besides, do you honestly think that the islamic fascists could ever destroy America? Do you really think they could even do more than dent us? We absolutely crushed Iraq in days. 3000 people died on 9/11. That's a pinprick. If we wanted to, we could grind Iran, Isreal, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, under our heel before they realized that their major cities had been nuked. But we don't. We don't need to, and it's against our ethic. America is the behemoth that can shrug that kind of thing off and keep going about the business of being the world's sole superpower. That's what would really show the Al Qaeda and Taliban dumbasses. Not our stupid underfunded and understaffed invasion.

Thank you. I generally try not to argue the point that 9/11 was nothing in the scheme of things, since I'm afraid of pissing off everyone in the near vicinity. Excellent post.

[Zepp88]

^

Also, these kind of statements made by the thread starter would sit better at Conspiracy Theory, UFO, and Alternative Topics

We don't insult and degrade each other here.

[BigM555]

Originally Posted by noodles

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." --Ben Franklin

I was going to post that earlier but thought it would be too cliche.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by noodles

• The pledge is so blatantly, disgustingly pro-nationalism to the point of almost scaring me. Forcing kids to stand and blindly recite it is the sort of things they do in China and North Korea. Our country was founded by men who most identified with their home states, and felt that a powerful central government was the path to tyranny.

Oui, after all, it is the "United States of America". Sit and think about that name for a second.

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by Jongpil Yun

Oui, after all, it is the "United States of America". Sit and think about that name for a second.

States that were bound together for a common cause, not to lord over each other.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by noodles

Hmm, where to begin. <cracks knuckles>

• The founding fathers of this country were predominantly Deist. I provided a link, since the entry on Conservapedia is inaccurate.
• The pledge is so blatantly, disgustingly pro-nationalism to the point of almost scaring me. Forcing kids to stand and blindly recite it is the sort of things they do in China and North Korea. Our country was founded by men who most identified with their home states, and felt that a powerful central government was the path to tyranny.
• Ideas that are liberal are not automatically retarded. Why do you think that everyone thinking and acting exactly the same is a good idea? Next thing you'll be telling me is that the problem with the middle east is that they're Arabs and therefore inferior to the rest of us humans.
• Yes, I do have things to hide. They're none of your ....ing business. They're none of the ....ing government's business. Do you think we should quarter troops for the military, too? Have you actually ever read the Constitution?
• I'd be less worried about the planes and more worried about the attack on our civil liberties, bro. "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." --Ben Franklin

...That's all you came up with? I figured you would be typing for days and have a several hundred page document I think if you look through this section of the forum totallybr00tal you'll find more than enough reasons. I mean if the shit that he's doing doesn't bug you in the slightest, then you're really no better than any of the Islam extremists. They too were indoctrinated to follow exactly what their government told them. I mean I'm from ....ing Canada, and I live in my own bubble of a world, yet I hear enough (generally through this site) to know that GWB is bad ....ing shit. And they provide links, sometimes to the official press releases of the white house, so it's not just liberal propaganda. And there are people on here who have argued their non liberal beliefs A LOT ....ing better than you. You just keep resorting to name calling, and calling everything liberal nonsense, without actually backing up your statements with any actual information, or citing ANY sources at all.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

...That's all you came up with? I figured you would be typing for days and have a several hundred page document

It's late and I'm drinking.

[ohio_eric]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

That's all you came up with? I figured you would be typing for days and have a several hundred page document

As far as the Pledge of Blind Allegiance goes I tend to side with Carl Sagan who thought we ought pledge allegiance to the Constitution not the flag. After all it is the Constitution that makes us what we are as a nation. Well at least it did until Bush wiped his ass with it but I digress.

[El Caco]

I don't think the world is ruined yet but a lot of damage has been done.

Freedom is the ability to do what you want when you want, with freedom there should be accountability. Bush has led the world in removing freedom from it's citizens.

If a man dictates what you can and cannot do and monitors your every move, you are not free and he is a dictator. It can also be said that he does not trust you and believes you are not intelligent enough to make your own decisions.

By all means a responsible leader should protect his borders but he should not punish his own people for the crimes of others.

Any man who is unable to keep his own home in order has no right to tell another how to keep his house in order, yet bush insists on doing so.

Bush has ignored the cries of some when there is nothing in it for him and instead gone for targets against massive opposition from his own people and allies.

A terrorist is one who's actions create terror, for me no man has created more terror in recent times than Bush.

No country has a greater impact on the environment than the U.S. The leaders of the country must assume responsibility for the impact their nation has on the Earth. Under the current U.S. administration things have only become worse.

To put it simply the quality of life now and the prospect for future generations is lower now than it was when Bush came to power. No one has been more responsible for this than Bush, his impact has not been confined to the nation he governs, it is global.

[BigM555]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

................And there are people on here who have argued their non liberal beliefs A LOT ....ing better than you. You just keep resorting to name calling, and calling everything liberal nonsense, without actually backing up your statements with any actual information, or citing ANY sources at all.

Holy shit crew, mark your calendars, JJ had a serious post! You okay dude?







On a side note perhaps JBroll will take the young padawan into his tutelage.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by BigM555

Holy shit crew, mark your calendars, JJ had a serious post! You okay dude?

It happens occasionally. Blind patriotism and this attitude REALLY rubs me the wrong way. This is the attitude that gives the US a bad name and ss.org is usually a shining beacon of the fact that not all US citizens are like that

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

It happens occasionally. Blind patriotism and this attitude REALLY rubs me the wrong way. This is the attitude that gives the US a bad name and ss.org is usually a shining beacon of the fact that not all US citizens are like that

AMERICA! .... YEAH!

[TotallyBr00tal]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

...That's all you came up with? I figured you would be typing for days and have a several hundred page document I think if you look through this section of the forum totallybr00tal you'll find more than enough reasons. I mean if the shit that he's doing doesn't bug you in the slightest, then you're really no better than any of the Islam extremists. They too were indoctrinated to follow exactly what their government told them. I mean I'm from ....ing Canada, and I live in my own bubble of a world, yet I hear enough (generally through this site) to know that GWB is bad ....ing shit. And they provide links, sometimes to the official press releases of the white house, so it's not just liberal propaganda. And there are people on here who have argued their non liberal beliefs A LOT ....ing better than you. You just keep resorting to name calling, and calling everything liberal nonsense, without actually backing up your statements with any actual information, or citing ANY sources at all.

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

Blind Patriotism

[garcia3441]

Blind and reckless patriotism is dangerous for our country and world peace

# Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions.

# At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot.

# Patriotism is a kind of religion: it is the egg from which wars are hatched.

# Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

# Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

# Patriotism has become a mere national assertion, a sentimentality of flag cheering with no constructive duties.

# Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone and irrational as a headless man.

# Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

# True patriotism doesn't exclude an understanding of the patriotism of others.

# Patriotism may be defined as a sense of partisan solidarity in respect of prestige.

# No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism.

# The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations.

# When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism.

# Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudices and patriotism…extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

You're right. Patriotism is dying in this country, you know why?


There's less and less to be proud of.

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end

Translation: I cant respond with resources and links that provide factual, non bias data.

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

Nah, musicians seem to be the most successful at pointing out the social climate and bringing about social change. See the 60s and the 70s.

[Jongpil Yun]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

I am not gonna respond with resources and links and all that cause I'll be here all day and this will never end but these are the types of answers I was expecting from a music site considering most musicians are liberal/anti everything so thats cool. This thread just supports my belief that patriotism is dying in this country.

Way to shrug off any argument. Liberal? Anti-everything? Whatever. You asked for reasons why Bush is one of, if not the worst president America has ever had, and you got them. Usually when people ask something like that they want to debate. You just ignore. So what's the point?

Bush has blundered in virtually every arena I can think of. Domestic policy, economics, foreign policy, and the environment. We've seen a severe degredation of freedom under a severely divided government (from the man who was supposed to be a uniter, not a divider), we've seen the dollar plummet, a record surplus turned into a record deficit, and the kind of lasting economic damage that will take several presidents to recover from. We've seen the most disastrous foreign policy since Vietnam, and a comparable level of hypocrisy when comparing campaigning rhetoric with action. We've seen a continually bad education system lagging farther and farther behind the rest of the world even though we spend massively more money per child than any other nation. We've seen a healthcare system dominated by HMOs and idiotically complex rules, while tying the hands of people who want to save lives by banning stem cell research because the Christian Right believes that a blastocyst = human being. We've seen a president absolutely enabling of pseudoscience like intelligent design. We've seen a president who refuses to do anything about global warming and wants to alter reality to fit his views. All this from a C student who never went to war, who failed every business enterprise he's attempted, who thinks he's been appointed by god.

If he's not one of the worst presidents ever, then I wonder how America got where it is today. The great men who have held his position in the past and built this country with their blood, sweat, and tears are rolling in their graves. Bush compares himself to Andrew Jackson, the hero of New Orleans? What a joke.

[TotallyBr00tal]

This is for Noodles
Religion
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics, C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson's Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.

Notwithstanding the spectrum of beliefs held by the Founding Fathers, most viewed religion in a favorable light. This is noted through their statements in speeches and correspondences in which they describe its role in molding "national morality" and securing the rule of law (George Washington), its check on human "wickedness" (Benjamin Franklin), and its preservation of a free government such as America (John Adams). Regardless, the division of church and state was always emphasized by the founding fathers. "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," states the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. This document was ratified by Congress without much debate or contention and stands today as a reminder of the founding fathers' intentions.[10]

Although not a religion, Freemasonry was represented in John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, James Mchenry, George Washington, Abraham Baldwin, Gunning Bedford, William Blount, David Brearly, Daniel Carroll, Jonathan Dayton, Rufus King, John Langdon, George Read, Roger Sherman, James Madison, Robert Morris, William Paterson, and Charles Pinckney

Paragragh two sums up my One Nation under God point. Yes it was not founded on A Religion but they all believe in a GOD.

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by TotallyBr00tal

This is for Noodles
Religion
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics, C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson's Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.

Notwithstanding the spectrum of beliefs held by the Founding Fathers, most viewed religion in a favorable light. This is noted through their statements in speeches and correspondences in which they describe its role in molding "national morality" and securing the rule of law (George Washington), its check on human "wickedness" (Benjamin Franklin), and its preservation of a free government such as America (John Adams). Regardless, the division of church and state was always emphasized by the founding fathers. "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," states the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. This document was ratified by Congress without much debate or contention and stands today as a reminder of the founding fathers' intentions.[10]

Although not a religion, Freemasonry was represented in John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, James Mchenry, George Washington, Abraham Baldwin, Gunning Bedford, William Blount, David Brearly, Daniel Carroll, Jonathan Dayton, Rufus King, John Langdon, George Read, Roger Sherman, James Madison, Robert Morris, William Paterson, and Charles Pinckney

Paragragh two sums up my One Nation under God point. Yes it was not founded on A Religion but they all believe in a GOD.

You are forgetting the fact that they strongly valued the need for separation of church and state.

[TotallyBr00tal]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

Translation: I cant respond with resources and links that provide factual, non bias data.



Nah, musicians seem to be the most successful at pointing out the social climate and bringing about social change. See the 60s and the 70s.

Ah the 60's and 70's the liberal is born and so the country begins to go down hill and the Everybody do whatever you want mentality is spreading.