[BigM555]

I agree that needs to be done Noodles.

But when it comes to these kinds of issues it goes so much deeper. A shift away from fossil fuels will not change this perception that so many people have that if their ideals have been compromised they are some how being oppressed.

[noodles]

You missed my point. We need to move away from oil so we can completely write off the middle east. Pull out all our people, close down all the military bases, close all the embassies, completely sever diplomatic ties, and cut off all trade. "You hate the west so much? OK, now you're on your own."

I wonder what all those rich oil shieks would do if they suddenly lost over half of their income.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by noodles

Step 1: Find alternative energy source
Step 2: Sever all ties with the middle east

Seems simple enough to me.

Well, yeah. That's because, you know, you have a brain.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Drew

Well, yeah. That's because, you know, you have a brain.

Oh, the people running our government have a brain. It is what they use when thinking about their pocket books.

[D-EJ915]

Funny thing is, most of our oil doesn't come from the middle east. Sudan also has other serious issues, like, not having control over groups killing people for no reason other than being different.

[7 Strings of Hate]

yep, its a bunch of barbarians trying to push their idiotic views on us like gengis kaan or napolian

[noodles]

Originally Posted by D-EJ915

Funny thing is, most of our oil doesn't come from the middle east. Sudan also has other serious issues, like, not having control over groups killing people for no reason other than being different.

Irrelevant. We only have one reason at all to be interested in the middle east, and that reason is oil, no matter what percentage of the oil we use comes from the region.

[BigM555]

Originally Posted by noodles

You missed my point. We need to move away from oil so we can completely write off the middle east. Pull out all our people, close down all the military bases, close all the embassies, completely sever diplomatic ties, and cut off all trade. "You hate the west so much? OK, now you're on your own."

I wonder what all those rich oil shieks would do if they suddenly lost over half of their income.

It's a good start but even if the West were to find alternatives to oil I don't think it would impact those sheiks for a VERY long time. The East would simply pick up where we left off.

If it weren't the East it would be someone else. As long as they have the resource and it's cheaper that the alternatives (which so far it seems the alternatives aren't going to be any cheaper) someone will want it and we can't control everything.

But my point was that the problem of intolerance is not unique to the Middle East. We see it everywhere! Even if I were to focus only on the topic de jour, I don't believe that removing the $$$ from the Middle East would alter the intolerance of Muslims abroad.

[zimbloth]

Fuck all those people.

[noodles]

I'm not that concerned with altering their perceptions. I'm interested in not having to deal with the headache of the middle east anymore. The Muslims in my country are controlled by our laws, and the opinions of Muslims outside my country doesn't mean shit to me.

In the great scheme of things, these fanatics are in no real position to harm us. Sure, 9/11 was horrible, but when put in the proper perspective, it was like a rotten little kid breaking the nose of a sleeping adult. It is not going to accomplish their goals of wiping the infedels from the planet, because we are obviously still here. The number of people killed is but a small fraction of our total population. In no way did it damage our ability to fight back, effect moral, or disuade us from our involvement in foreign affairs. We're certainly weren't sitting here trembling before the face of the all power Muslim god.

Their hatred of us predominantly stems from our involvement in a region of the world that we have no business being in. Abandoning the middle east would remove their reasons for hating us. Sure, you'll still have the fanatics that will go right on hating us and wanting to cause us harm, but you will have removed the motivation for the common man. After a couple of generations, we'll be about as relevant to them as Mexico, just another country on the other side of a big ocean. It is hard for the fanatic to stir up rage against the infedel when the infedel is nowhere to be found.