[DslDwg]

Originally Posted by noodles

Nobody said he was a sharp guy, but he is about ten time smarter than the current dipshit residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Tell me again what our president did while serving in the military in Vietnam.

I'm not comparing them? Wasn't even talking about Bush. Just making the comparison that Limbaugh is an idiot who seems to have made a verbal flub but then the guy that attacks him has made a similar verbal flub about the troops.

Originally Posted by noodles

I don't know about you, but I'm going to trust the guys who served with him before more of the same GOP rhetoric. Hey, I'm just going by the gut feelings that I developed while I was in the military. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, since I never was deployed to a combat zone, but I don't go bragging about my military service while landing on aircraft carriers parked off the California coast.

Agreed

Originally Posted by noodles

Now, tell me why it is that we're discussing the loosing 2004 candidate and his credibility, as compared to the conservative blowhard who never done more than sit on his fat ass and spew venom? Oh, that's right, I forgot the conservative debate methodology of distract and attack.

I brought up the loosing candidate and his credibility because he was quoted in the CNN quote that you originally posted. I agreed with you that Limbaugh is a blowhard but basically who is Kerry to be the one to say so - seeing as though he is a blowhard himself.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by DslDwg

I'm not comparing them? Wasn't even talking about Bush. Just making the comparison that Limbaugh is an idiot who seems to have made a verbal flub but then the guy that attacks him has made a similar verbal flub about the troops.

It wouldn't have been a flub if he would have grown a backbone and stuck by his words, since he was 100% right on the money. The last war that was this wildly unpopular had a draft. This time around, only the guys who aren't going to college are signing up, so yeah, study hard or joining the military may be your only choice.

I really hate this stupid neocon brainwashing of all things concerning the military. The military is NOT a very good option right now, they HAVE lowered their standards to get in, and anyone with half a brain is NOT joining up right now. That does NOT mean that I don't support our armed service personnel. It is just some simple statements of fact, based upon recruitment data and enlistment requirements, and political viewpoints have nothing to do with it.

I brought up the loosing candidate and his credibility because he was quoted in the CNN quote that you originally posted. I agreed with you that Limbaugh is a blowhard but basically who is Kerry to be the one to say so - seeing as though he is a blowhard himself.

So, you pick the one guy out of the article that you don't like, and post some flippant remark about him in an attempt to derail the entire thread? Is there a college you conservatives go to that teaches you how not to debate? I'm sure you've NEVER said anything that could be misconstrued in your entire life.

There really is no comparison between the two. Kerry's comments, while ill-advised, were a statement of the cold realities of the current situation. He's trying to emplore kids to study hard and go to college, so they don't wind up stuck in the middle of the Iraqi civil war, pawns in Bush's twisted game. Rush, however, blasted any and all soldiers who had the balls to exercise their first amendment rights, labeling them "phony soldiers".

"Just as patriotism is the exclusive realm of neither party, taking a stand against those who spew hate and impugn the integrity of our troops is a job that belongs to all of us," Reid said.

"I can't help but wonder how my Republican colleagues would have reacted if the tables were turned -- if a well-known Democratic radio personality had used the same insulting line of attack against troops who support the war," the Nevada Democrat added.

Make sure to read the whole article next time.

[eaeolian]

Originally Posted by noodles

Is there a college you conservatives go to that teaches you how not to debate?

Yes, it's called television - Fox News and CNN are the biggest offenders, in fact.

Let's be real - most people think this *is* debate, because that's how it's been portrayed on TV, especially over the last six years. This has to be the greatest era ever for "The Press Conference In Which the Politician Never Actually Answers Any of the Questions". Misdirection, subject-changing, and message regurgitation are what pass for political discourse at this point, so why shouldn't people ape it?

[DslDwg]

Originally Posted by noodles

It wouldn't have been a flub if he would have grown a backbone and stuck by his words, since he was 100% right on the money. The last war that was this wildly unpopular had a draft. This time around, only the guys who aren't going to college are signing up, so yeah, study hard or joining the military may be your only choice.

So it isn't possible that any college graduates are taking officer paths into the military or that young men and women are joining the military academies for future careers as officers.

Originally Posted by noodles

I really hate this stupid neocon brainwashing of all things concerning the military. The military is NOT a very good option right now, they HAVE lowered their standards to get in, and anyone with half a brain is NOT joining up right now. That does NOT mean that I don't support our armed service personnel. It is just some simple statements of fact, based upon recruitment data and enlistment requirements, and political viewpoints have nothing to do with it.

I understand that the standards have been lowered in some cases. But why is it not a good option - because we are in an unpopular war? Or just because you say so?

Originally Posted by noodles

So, you pick the one guy out of the article that you don't like, and post some flippant remark about him in an attempt to derail the entire thread? Is there a college you conservatives go to that teaches you how not to debate? I'm sure you've NEVER said anything that could be misconstrued in your entire life.

Wasn't trying to derail your thread - using information that you provided- and honestly if no one disagrees with you what's the point - are you hoping for a big love fest here? Of course things I've said have been misconstrued but I'm not a sitting U.S. Senator or a radio personality so it probably doesn't piss off an entire group of people when I do it.

Originally Posted by noodles

There really is no comparison between the two. Kerry's comments, while ill-advised, were a statement of the cold realities of the current situation. He's trying to emplore kids to study hard and go to college, so they don't wind up stuck in the middle of the Iraqi civil war, pawns in Bush's twisted game. Rush, however, blasted any and all soldiers who had the balls to exercise their first amendment rights, labeling them "phony soldiers".

I'm really not trying to defend Limbaugh - but just as you argue that Kerry was misconstrued - Limbaugh states that he was specifically talking about Jesse MacBeth - so is it even the slightest bit possible that Limbaugh was misconstrued also?

Originally Posted by noodles

Make sure to read the whole article next time.

Actually I did - just grabbed the Kerry bit - because basically he had done the same thing that Rush had and yet he was apparently one of the main Dem's calling him out for it.

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by DslDwg

So it isn't possible that any college graduates are taking officer paths into the military or that young men and women are joining the military academies for future careers as officers.

You kind of missed the point entirely there, chief.

Originally Posted by DslDwg

derstand that the standards have been lowered in some cases. But why is it not a good option - because we are in an unpopular war? Or just because you say so?

Do you really want the lowest common denominator wielding high powered artillery? Then we get shit like we hear about on the news, like shooting down friendly aircraft.

Originally Posted by DslDwg

I'm really not trying to defend Limbaugh - but just as you argue that Kerry was misconstrued - Limbaugh states that he was specifically talking about Jesse MacBeth - so is it even the slightest bit possible that Limbaugh was misconstrued also?

I think its great that rush is getting in trouble and having his words misconstrued. Considering he does the same thing to other people 4 out 5 days a week for the past 15 years.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by DslDwg

So it isn't possible that any college graduates are taking officer paths into the military or that young men and women are joining the military academies for future careers as officers.

I understand that the standards have been lowered in some cases. But why is it not a good option - because we are in an unpopular war? Or just because you say so?

US lowers standards in army numbers crisis | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

Solving the military manpower crisis. - By Phillip Carter and Owen West - Slate Magazine

You're missing the point. The standards have been lowered because the war is unpopular. It is a direct correlation. This isn't WWII, where people are patriotically signing up to go fight the evil Nazis. This is an unpopular war, spearheaded by a more unpopular president. They are lowering the standards because the military is missing recruitment goals. It says so right there in paragraph 3. Paragraph 4 goes on to state that now soldiers can be retrained, even if they fail to meet physical fitness standards, body fat standards, fail drug or alcohol rehabilitation, or have a record of poor conduct or performance.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be next to the fat, drunk junkie with a bad attitude who doesn't know what he's doing. Lowering standards undermines moral in an all-volunteer military. Soldiers don't want to be serving with the lowest common denominator. They want to be next to the total badass who was born for this shit. Quite frankly, I don't think you've ever been in the military, or you'd have known that. Esprit de Corps isn't something this administration takes very seriously. Do you know how much that scares me?

We need a draft so the country really does suffer like a country at war. We as Americans aren't making sacrifices, we're not rationing, we're not using food stamps, and we're not buying war bonds. Bush insists on running the country like we are a nation at peace, right down to the budget.

Wasn't trying to derail your thread - using information that you provided- and honestly if no one disagrees with you what's the point - are you hoping for a big love fest here? Of course things I've said have been misconstrued but I'm not a sitting U.S. Senator or a radio personality so it probably doesn't piss off an entire group of people when I do it.

I'm really not trying to defend Limbaugh - but just as you argue that Kerry was misconstrued - Limbaugh states that he was specifically talking about Jesse MacBeth - so is it even the slightest bit possible that Limbaugh was misconstrued also?

Are you even trying? Man, if I was a traditional conservative, I'd fucking hate these guys that are destroying my country and using morality as a tool rather than a belief in doing the right thing. The modern conservative platform has become attack and counterattack, because the position they hold is too weak to effectively defend. I'm liberal, but you'll never see me standing up for a guy like Ted Kennedy. The guy is a total piece of shit, and he deserves to be in prison, not the Senate. Post up some shit about Ted, and I'll happily join in on the Ted bashing bandwagon with you. Won't even mention a single Republican who is guilty of the same thing because they're off IM'ing teenage boys and picking up cops in airport bathrooms.

Actually I did - just grabbed the Kerry bit - because basically he had done the same thing that Rush had and yet he was apparently one of the main Dem's calling him out for it.

Yeah, but Rush has been doing this shit for years. Remember the tune he sang about drug addicts being criminals? He didn't seem to paint himself with that same brush when we all found out he was strung out on Oxycotin.

I was simply trying to point out the irony of Rush get pigeonholed with the exact same type of argument he, and others like him, constantly use when targeting those with opposing viewpoints. No, Jesse Bath wasn't a soldier, so when Rush called him a "phony soldier", he was right on the money. Rush getting slammed by Democrats for slandering our armed service personal with his comments is absolutely the definition of irony. Can you not see that? Democrats learned these tactics from Republicans.

[DslDwg]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

You kind of missed the point entirely there, chief.

Didn't think I did ? Noodles commented that only guys who aren't going to college are currently joining the military - which I stated I didn't agree with because there are still people attending the military academies as well at ROTC programs through colleges. I was trying to make the point that if college is our standard for someone being smart or not that a percentage of these people are still joining the armed forces.

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

I think its great that rush is getting in trouble and having his words misconstrued. Considering he does the same thing to other people 4 out 5 days a week for the past 15 years.

Hey not disagreeing with you here - But back to my original comment - Is the irony that Rush did this (of course he is a hypocrite) or is the irony that one of the main Democrats that speaks out has done exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by noodles

You're missing the point. The standards have been lowered because the war is unpopular. It is a direct correlation. This isn't WWII, where people are patriotically signing up to go fight the evil Nazis. This is an unpopular war, spearheaded by a more unpopular president. They are lowering the standards because the military is missing recruitment goals. It says so right there in paragraph 3. Paragraph 4 goes on to state that now soldiers can be retrained, even if they fail to meet physical fitness standards, body fat standards, fail drug or alcohol rehabilitation, or have a record of poor conduct or performance.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be next to the fat, drunk junkie with a bad attitude who doesn't know what he's doing. Lowering standards undermines moral in an all-volunteer military. Soldiers don't want to be serving with the lowest common denominator. They want to be next to the total badass who was born for this shit. Quite frankly, I don't think you've ever been in the military, or you'd have known that. Esprit de Corps isn't something this administration takes very seriously. Do you know how much that scares me?

We need a draft so the country really does suffer like a country at war. We as Americans aren't making sacrifices, we're not rationing, we're not using food stamps, and we're not buying war bonds. Bush insists on running the country like we are a nation at peace, right down to the budget.

No I really do understand it's harder to recruit during any wartime period. Especially since this is an unpopular war. You yourself state soldiers wouldn't want to serve next to the lowest common denominator yet what would bringing the draft back do for us? Draftees make some of the worst recruits you will ever see. You are of course free to question my military service if you like - I'll will however tell you who I wanted next to me - someone who could do their job and kept a cool head when shit hit the fan. I could give a shit if the guy had a low asvab score, twelve drug waivers or was 20 lbs over the height-weight standards.

Originally Posted by noodles

I was simply trying to point out the irony of Rush get pigeonholed with the exact same type of argument he, and others like him, constantly use when targeting those with opposing viewpoints. No, Jesse Bath wasn't a soldier, so when Rush called him a "phony soldier", he was right on the money. Rush getting slammed by Democrats for slandering our armed service personal with his comments is absolutely the definition of irony. Can you not see that? Democrats learned these tactics from Republicans.

I do see that and I agree - I was trying to point out as additional irony that the dem in your article that called him out on it - was guilty of the same faux pas.