[Moro]

I can understand the reason. I would probably shoot myself too if I was under some maniac's finger, beign deployed until god knows when.

Soldiers are for peace, not for war. If you're going to war, you're going to put and end to some shitty thing that is going on. You're going there to restore peace. You're not going to war and risking your life because some wacko thinks god told him to do so. T'least I know I wouldn't.

[noodles]

"As far as being shot at every day, I think it's better," Aponte told WCBS-TV in an interview that aired Friday. "Mentally I can't do it anymore. I can't handle it anymore."

This is the product of overly long deployments, not enough time back home, unending strings of tours, and extended periods of enlistment.

When you treat a military like this, you break it. The soldiers quickly reach the break point. It is even worse with the officers, since seeking help of a psychological nature is the black mark on their career. The guy who went crazy will never get promoted again.

A draft is what was needed from the very beginning. It is the only way support an extended war like this without destroying your military. However, it is the one thing that Bush was unwilling to do, because he knows he would have never been able to invade if he called for one. He certainly wouldn't get it through Congress now.

We really, really have to leave, before our military is chewed up enough that other hostile countries get bold and start taking out US embassies.

His lawyer has said Aponte suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, and the military will evaluate him and decide whether he is fit for duty, provide counseling if needed and then send him back overseas, or discharge him.

So, we'll take a look at you. If you seem fit, we punish you, and send you back into the meat grinder. If you're not fit, we put you out on a psych discharge, ensuring that you will never hold a government job or any position requiring a security clearance. Our little gift to you for fighting for our country.

[Korbain]

thats odd. I can understand he didn't want to go back. But jesus, if your not gonna go through with it, why join the army? You sign a damn written contract on whats expected, if you don't like it, don't do it. I don't really feel sorry for him. But i can also see it from his situation. Its sunday night, i have work tomorrow, i might just get someone to shoot me in the leg too lol

[ZeroSignal]

Originally Posted by Korbain

thats odd. I can understand he didn't want to go back. But jesus, if your not gonna go through with it, why join the army? You sign a damn written contract on whats expected, if you don't like it, don't do it. I don't really feel sorry for him. But i can also see it from his situation. Its sunday night, i have work tomorrow, i might just get someone to shoot me in the leg too lol

/

[JBroll]

Originally Posted by Korbain

thats odd. I can understand he didn't want to go back. But jesus, if your not gonna go through with it, why join the army? You sign a damn written contract on whats expected, if you don't like it, don't do it. I don't really feel sorry for him. But i can also see it from his situation. Its sunday night, i have work tomorrow, i might just get someone to shoot me in the leg too lol

He did sign the contract, yes.

Now, if the government held to their end of the contract, he'd be in a completely different place. However, they're being held there for much longer than they should be and having every term they try to pull yanked out from under them because we're in a time of need. There is literally no comparison there at all.

Jeff

[noodles]

^ What he said. He signed a contract knowing what was expected of him. However, the government betrayed that trust and violated the terms of the contract by changing policy as they saw fit.

Our military is completely voluntary. When you violate the trust of the volunteers, you quickly lose your military. Which is what is happening right now, as evidenced by such pathetic recruit my numbers. The only reason the Army is reaching their recruitment numbers is because they lowered the goal and relaxed the standards. This isn't like WWII, where patriotic young men are rushing to defend their country. This is a completely political war that is being fought for the wrong reasons, and Americans are not getting behind it.

[Korbain]

nooo thats not really right. You join the army, you have to be prepared to stick out what is due. He's a solider, if they need soldiers there, he has signed a bit of paper saying he'll be there for whatever is called of him. Ok fair enough, i do believe its a bit bullshit and they have been fucked over. But you sign up to be prepared for whatever duty your needed for. And he is needed now. i won't disagree with you's to some extent, i do agree its not really fair whats going on there, but in reality, he's a soldier. Soldiers have orders, and he must follow them. I feel bad he had to go that far to get out of it. But maybe he should have thought things through before joining to be a soldier.

[JBroll]

No, he signed a much more specific contract and he had much of it violated. They have extended many terms without permission and are denying the terms of the contract they gave him themselves.

Jeff

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Korbain

nooo thats not really right. You join the army, you have to be prepared to stick out what is due. He's a solider, if they need soldiers there, he has signed a bit of paper saying he'll be there for whatever is called of him. Ok fair enough, i do believe its a bit bullshit and they have been fucked over. But you sign up to be prepared for whatever duty your needed for. And he is needed now. i won't disagree with you's to some extent, i do agree its not really fair whats going on there, but in reality, he's a soldier. Soldiers have orders, and he must follow them. I feel bad he had to go that far to get out of it. But maybe he should have thought things through before joining to be a soldier.

Sort of what JBRoll said, but in a little more depth - the contract he signed stipulates that, while he's always on call, there are restrictions surrounding his mobilization such that when he's sent on active duty, he's guaranteed a tour of duty no longer than X number of months, and he's guarannteed X number of months' leave between tours.

Currently, the federal government is citing insufficient troop levels (brought on no doubt by fighting two nearly unilateral wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, trying ANOTHER troop surge this winter, and the fact there's further speculation brewing that according to General Pace, I believe, Bush is toying with the idea of an additional "surge" if the progress is unsatisfactory when September comes) as reason to both extend tours of duty past what's in the contract soldiers are signing, and cutting short leave to keep troop levels above what the current army enlistment can sustain.

So, let's say you signed a contract stating that I'd give you $50 if I could shoot paintballs at you from 50 feet (close enough to leave bruises) for ten minutes at a time, but I could only do it once every Saturday afternoon. You roll out there, and get pelted, but when ten minutes are up I say, "actually, we can't get enough volenteers to keep the levels we need, so I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to stay out there for a full hour. Oh, and you need to come back tuesday night, too." Would you feel that the contract you signed was being honored?

[Korbain]

ofcourse i wouldn't feel that contracted had been honored. But its a war, things change. When soldiers joined to fight in the world wars do you think they expected to be fighting for some 5 years or so. Some a bit more. Things change, its a battle zone. A contract means shit all during a war zone. Your to do what is called off you. If he didn't realise shit doesn't go smooth in the battlefield, or in a war zone, he shouldn't have joined. Its as simple as that lol. Being in the army is a challenge, its not easy for anyone. You gotta do whats expected off you for yourself and others. Why should he be allowed to get out of it when his mates are still their getting shot at? I am sure they all would love to get out of if by getting shot in the leg, but they're the real soldiers.