[MetalMike]

In an attempt to better understand the principles of communism and what the small percentage of those convicted during the Red Scare who were actually American communists were looking to achieve, I came across a few very scary ideas. You can easily disregard some of the crazier, conspiracy theoryesq points, but the big picture is disturbing.

I read bits and pieces of The Communist Manifesto and thought, "Hey, some of the points he uses to catergorize a communist state seem to be prevalent in our country". I researched it further and found this: http://www.nationmakers.com/com_man.htm

I really can't understand how the Soviets could have imagined a possible communist revolution in America. I found an interesting explanation of what they call "physcopolitics". It's about the art of soviet brainwashing and how they planned a political takeover without war. It's very long so I advise anyone who is interested to read the section labeled Chapter V: An Examination of Loyalties. It mentions that America considered communism an immediate threat and that their goals and mission could possibly surpass the life of the Soviet Union itself. I found this stuff interesting and thought I'd share. It may be a little out there, but it is still interesting considering how most Americans view the Red Scare as a persecution of alleged communists and dismiss the fact that there was, in actuality, a communist party aimed at creating a world peace, but still funded by Stalin.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7...opolitics.html

[Drew]

Without actually, you know, reading the links you posted, let me just say that Communism=/=Stalin, and leave it at that.

Communism alone is not an inherently evil thing. It's just, the vast majority of communist governments we've seen have been authoritarian in nature.

[Samer]

communism is actuality the next logical step after capitalism.
i learned this in a college class, i forget what it is called but there is a evolution economic systems and communism is the more advanced one over capitalism.
It refers to a democratic communism or socialism and not a totalitarian one.

[D-EJ915]

Stalin was one paranoid sob, that's all you need to know about him.

[Durero]

I agree with Drew. I can't think of any examples of communism actually put into practice in a democratic way.

[NegaTiveXero]

Originally Posted by Drew

Without actually, you know, reading the links you posted, let me just say that Communism=/=Stalin, and leave it at that.

Communism alone is not an inherently evil thing. It's just, the vast majority of communist governments we've seen have been authoritarian in nature.

Let me put it this way.

Communism: Violent overthrow of current government and seizing of assets as to redistribute them equally.

Socialism: Same thing, without the violent part.

It's not an evil thing, I agree. It actually looks great on paper if you really read about it. The problem is, of course, the human element. We fuck it up as the plan goes along. And like you said, they have usually ended up authoritarian, because people are so easily persuaded by money and power to say "fuck everyone else" and keep more shit for yourself. More "communist" governments were as capitalist as we were, and still are.

[The Dark Wolf]

Stalin had about as much to do with "communism" as a practicing political system as George Bush does "democracy."


Stalin was a paranoid, backstabbing, power hungry, sadistic bastard. He was responsible for the deaths of FAR more people than Hitler. (Historical fact.)

Karl Marx was the father of socialism/communism, and advanced them as counter systems to the then dominant laissez-faire capitalism that was dominant in Europe and America (a very, very bad system itself BTW). Marx's writings inspired Lenin, the father of the Russian social revolution that led to the advent of a "communist" government. But he was betrayed, and the movement was taken over, by the madman Stalin.


Hence the extremely negative connotation that still lingers in the Western mind over communism.

[JBroll]

Originally Posted by Samer

communism is actuality the next logical step after capitalism.

...Say what? Capitalism builds upon the innate desire for people to want more, and is the foundation of modern civilization. Communism throws that out the window, leaving no motivation for society as a whole to move forward because there would be little benefit for too much work.

Originally Posted by Samer

i learned this in a college class, i forget what it is called but there is a evolution economic systems and communism is the more advanced one over capitalism.
It refers to a democratic communism or socialism and not a totalitarian one.

The problem is that democratic communism is not realistic. The reason it took as long to die as it did in Soviet Russia was the huge propaganda machine. Hell, China was insanely anti-private property until recently, and when the whole private-ownership-of-goods thing popped up - and China started encouraging it - China started to develop a freer market than the States. I'd like to know how communism is a logical step from *anything*, and more advanced than capitalism - it is based on incorrect assumptions and relies too much on erasing human desire to work.

As far as actual communist goals... we have welfare, government supports for industries left and right (and convinced people that the New Deal worked), and a tremendous government (with more money being passed around under its roof than most countries have), with trade restrictions left and right and taxes any time a dollar bill leaves a wallet, so they did one hell of a number on us, wherever they may be.

Jeff

[ElRay]

Originally Posted by Durero

I agree with Drew. I can't think of any examples of communism actually put into practice in a democratic way.

There's a number of "autonomous collectives" (NO Monty Python references please) around. The Israeli kibbutz is probably the most mass-media accessible format. It's a great system, it just starts to fall apart beyond 20-30 people.

Much like Social Utopia. It's a great theory, but when you give the government the power it needs to manage the Utopia, you've given it enough power to abuse it's position and the citizens.

Ray

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by JBroll

...Say what? the innate desire for people to want more

That's a highly debatable concept there, Sir.

Many people think modern society manufactures many of these desires. Look at the TV. Basically a glorified "CONSUME!" propaganda machine.


Hunter gathers don't show a whole lot of desire to accumulate all kinds of goods beyond what's necessary for day-to-day living, and a simple level of what's pleasing. And guess what? Mankind lived as hunter/gatherers for probably nearly 2 million years, in one form or another.