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Politics & Current Events Discussion on political views, the war and world events here. Strictly moderated forum, so use your better judgement when posting.

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  • 1 Post By Jakke
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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:25 AM   #1
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Canadian muslim woman arrested for aiding Hizbollah

I found this story amusing, because after all, I am going to all the hells.
Not the basic story, terrorism is not funny, but I liked the part where a woman fighting for an end to negative stereotyping of muslims, there included branding them as terrorists, is arrested for aiding terrorists. Can anyone else also appreciate the irony of this?

Quebec Muslim activist becomes first woman charged under 9/11 terror laws over Hezbollah gun-running plot

What I think is interesting is her work.. If she wanted to get people to stop stereotyping muslims, did she not see that her involvement (alledged) with Hizbollah would hurt her cause?

I see two explanations, provided she is guilty.
1. She sees Hizbollah as a legitimate cause and not as terrorists. That brings her humanism in question, as she has then "given the ok" for the jews in the middle east to be eradicated. There are differing opinions on this board about Israel, but I am confident no one here wants Israel destroyed.
2. She sees them as terrorists and this is an expression of Taqiyya.
For those who are unfamiliar, lying is frowned upon in islam, except under Taqiyya. This is a loophole for muslims that allows them to lie under special conditions. Lying is allowed against enemies in times of war, to reconcile former enemies (lying to not relay all things said), and if the muslim is in danger. Some scholars extend it to anything furthering islam, but I have not seen that this would be a mainstream opinion.

The first and third can be problematic, terrorists commonly see themselves as being at war, so the first condition holds up. Danger is very subjective, but seeing as islamists generally are believers in many conspiracies involving jews, danger might in this case be something like: "Danger from the world-controlling zionist illuminati".

I an interested in hearing from you, personally I can't figure out why she (possibly) has done this..
Cognitive dissonance or calculated plot...
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Unread 07-17-2012, 05:24 AM   #2
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She doesn't see what she is doing as arming terrorists but arming freedom fighters.
People like this have no understanding of what constitutes a civil society and have given up their humanity to become better sycophants to an idea.

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Unread 07-17-2012, 05:27 AM   #3
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She is wrong in thinking the way she is but I can totally understand why a lot of people support radical islamist groups like that especially if they had to live in Quebec.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 05:55 AM   #4
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I'm scared to say anything bad about Hizbollah right now but I fully agree with Mehtab, this shit has got to go !

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Unread 07-17-2012, 06:57 AM   #5
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I find it strange that someone (man or woman) trying to eradicate negative profiling on muslims would be involved in smuggling weapons for hezbollah. I mean this is the exact opposite from his/her original goal. Then again it could be the perfect cover.

"She doesn't see what she is doing as arming terrorists but arming freedom fighters.
People like this have no understanding of what constitutes a civil society and have given up their humanity to become better sycophants to an idea."

I agree with the first part of your comment Necris but not with the second. Each society has its civil structure and each society moves forward and backwards depending on the propaganda posed by the respective governments/leaders. There are a lot of people in Iran and the Arabic states that do not agree with terrorism and religious fanaticism but given certain circumstances the public opinion can be swayed. And if you end up with a totalitarian regime then good luck defending your opinion in public and not ending up in a ditch. This however happens in the western world in a more subterranean and freedom glazed fashion. The main difference is that the opposite opinion can be heard and put some sense into people.
What my main idea is in order not to be misinterpreted is that if a majority of people believe in an idea hard enough in order to defy logic then their resulting actions will be that the end justifies the means.

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Unread 07-17-2012, 10:25 AM   #6
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One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. I've known people straight out of the middle east and Isreal and the hatred is so strong that someone from an outside perspective looking in really can't understand. I don't agree with her or her choices but judging her without having experienced that situation is naive.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #7
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Cultural relativism is bullshit IMO, we have human values, and wanting a genocide is not one of them. Hizbollah's goals are by large wrong, killing innocent people is wrong. This is not saying Israel is any better, but explaining violence with "oh, they just hate Israel that much, it's nothing you'd understand" is bullshit.

Sweden has been fighting Russia for longer than Hizbollah has been "fighting" Israel, several hundred years in fact. Would it then be ok, in your relativistic point of view, for me to row over to Kaliningrad and start to slaughter russians? No?




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Unread 07-17-2012, 02:26 PM   #8
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Cultural relativism is bullshit IMO, we have human values, and wanting a genocide is not one of them. Hizbollah's goals are by large wrong, killing innocent people is wrong. This is not saying Israel is any better, but explaining violence with "oh, they just hate Israel that much, it's nothing you'd understand" is bullshit.

Sweden has been fighting Russia for longer than Hizbollah has been "fighting" Israel, several hundred years in fact. Would it then be ok, in your relativistic point of view, for me to row over to Kaliningrad and start to slaughter russians? No?
I'm not sure if your responding to me, because I said I didn't agree with her, her goals, or hezbollah. My point was more that you can't take something as complex and multi-facited as the arab-isreal divide and just say "OMG KILLING PPL IS SO WRONG ALL HUMANS GET THAT!" because death is not handled in absolutes. Each country and society rationalizes and sanctions death when they feel it is appropriate which why you get pro-life conservatives supporting war and the death penalty or Liberals who are pro-choice but against war. Each person has their own view of when killing is justified. Isreal has been the target of unwarrented hostility in its past, but if you've heard how genocidal their president is you know how dark the future is for that nation. It's really easy to talk about how terrible Hezbollah is but it's not like genocide isn't on the mind of some Isrealis as well.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 02:50 PM   #9
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Well the reason a lot of arabs dont like israel is because they basically came in and kicked them out of their homes, marginalized them, killed a lot of them, etc...

If you came to Vancouver, killed my dad and "accidently" killed my mom and decided to kick out all the Canadians living there and marginalize them them. Is it really surprising I would try and kill you? No matter how unjust obviously these people would try and kill you. That what ive always found a bit ironic about israel, after enduring genocide they essentially did something similar to Palestenians.

Obviously though Hezbollah is wrong and you cant justify their actions but its easy to see why people help them, especially with the whole gaza strip thing still happening.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #10
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Ok, first of all, the medium life expectancy in Gaza is higher than in Turkey. I am not buying into how Israel is killing babies in Gaza, or something equally alarmist. My beef with Israel are the settlements on the West Bank. Hamas are masters of propaganda, and most thinking individuals should realize this and not just swallow everything bad they make up about Israel.

Are you aware of that Hamas initially attacked Israel because they wanted a Gaza "free" of jews? They wanted an ethnical cleansing, and got one too. Turned out they were even bigger assholes and did not stand down as they had promised to.

No, I did not say you agree with her, neither did I say killing is by definition wrong. The examples you brought up is killing by social contract or by war. What Hizbollah does is neither. They specifically target civilians, to defend that by saying that people die in wars or are executed (in some countries) is dishonest.
Even worse, you seem to want to justify attacks on civilians with what their government does, do you take personal responsibility for what your government does? Are all your politicians' words your words?




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Unread 07-17-2012, 03:00 PM   #11
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Stealth, can you please tell me you did not just compare the holocaust with Gaza?




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Unread 07-17-2012, 03:08 PM   #12
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I didnt say anything about baby killing, they have done things like block aid to the strip before. Nor did I say anything about terror groupe being legit. All I said, is that if you're a young male whose family was killed by X group you will probably want to kill them because you have nothing else to live for. To these people joining terror groups is a way for them to get back at people (they falsely believe) that killed their family.

If I kill your family would you just say, "lol its ok it was an accident, nobody meant to kill my family."
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Unread 07-17-2012, 03:16 PM   #13
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Nah, it was Semichastny who claimed Israel is killing babies in Gaza.

Hizbollah is not even palestinian. They are only driven by muslim zeal and hatred toward jews.




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Unread 07-17-2012, 03:57 PM   #14
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I don't really see what is alarmist about admitting that Israel has deliberately attacked civilian populations. Children die in Gaza due to Israeli policies, that is not alarmist it's me being able to acknowledge Israel is making bad choices.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:23 PM   #15
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It's alarmist if you cannot supply evidence of said babies dying because of Israel. As for Israel targeting the civilan population, you must refer to the short war with Hamas 1-3 years ago, right?

But then you are grazing over the fact that if the combatants from Hamas take cover in residential areas (which is in violation of international law), you are going to have collateral casualities. Does that mean Israel targeted civilians? No, only that Hamas were calculating enough to use civilians as a way of propaganda against Israel.




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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
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But then you are grazing over the fact that if the combatants from Hamas take cover in residential areas (which is in violation of international law), you are going to have collateral casualities. Does that mean Israel targeted civilians? No, only that Hamas were calculating enough to use civilians as a way of propaganda against Israel.
While you are right that it means they didn't necessarily target citizens, it does, however, mean that they went in knowing that they would probably be killing citizens and determined clearly that it was worth the collateral damage to do so. Same with the US in the middle east or Vietnam so I'm by no means saying anything relevant here, just pointing out that there was intent.

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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #17
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Indeed, Israel is naturally not blameless, but I am not sure they had any choice in the matter. They had to be fought, probably




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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:32 PM   #18
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.... And I am not sure how we went from Hizbollah to Gaza... They have very little in common.




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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:34 PM   #19
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.... And I am not sure how we went from Hizbollah to Gaza... They have very little in common.
thats how middle east discussions go.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 04:53 PM   #20
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Not a clue mate.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 07:02 PM   #21
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I'm scared to say anything bad about Hizbollah right now but I fully agree with Mehtab, this shit has got to go !
NEVER be afraid of ignorant, violent savages.

SCREW Hizbollah.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 09:08 PM   #22
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She is wrong in thinking the way she is but I can totally understand why a lot of people support radical islamist groups like that especially if they had to live in Quebec.
I laughed but I shouldn't have.
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