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Unread 06-27-2012, 10:48 PM   #51
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If it were a 50/50 scenario, fair enough, but it's not.
I fail to see how that would make things any different.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 11:32 PM   #52
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I fail to see how that would make things any different.
Then it wouldn't be the majority using their superior numbers to sway and influence every aspect of life from education to the laws we have to follow. It would be an even game and each side would have an equally loud voice as well as an equally strong force to help. When Christianity dominates the United States over and religious belief or lack thereof then you should expect there is going to be a bias towards the majority.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 01:02 AM   #53
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Good point.

But, if the evolutionists were the overwhelming majority, then they would be using their superior numbers and political clout to abolish something that many believe to be their rights.

It goes either way.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I totally believe that religion shouldn't be taught in science class. That defeats the purpose. I'm just providing a counter-argument and a somewhat rational example of a Texan.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 02:06 AM   #54
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^^^Yeah i only chimed in because of the stereotyping that slowly began to occur. The thing people need to realize is the minority can't rule the majority (anymore than the reverse) even when they are right and shouldn't waste the effort on something so silly. I'm not exaggerating when 5 to no minutes got spent on it when I was in school and it was a small paragraph. There are some things that really aren't worth the effort. I guarantee if you raise your kids as atheist they will be laughing when they read it anyways so who cares. It isn't even pandering really its just picking your battles and anyone with kids will understand how that is.

In any case if you aren't taught that at home it is highly unlikely that a teacher will convince you otherwise. I've had very few teachers who had strong enough personalities that influenced me and it seems fewer and fewer thanks to very poor state and national funding.

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Unread 06-28-2012, 02:25 AM   #55
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^^ Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 02:26 AM   #56
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It's not the amount of time that is spent on it. It's the principle behind the idea. Creationism shouldn't be in science textbooks or classrooms in the first place because it IS NOT science. It shouldn't even be considered as an equal idea because it isn't, despite what a vocal minority of idiots may believe to be true.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 05:36 AM   #57
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First, all texans are not troglodytes that hunts down every free-thinking individual, jew, or cucumber within the state with a shotgun. I know plenty of texans that are very nice, intelligent people.

That said, we can't have creation in a science book because it is not ....ing science! I would in that case demand a mention of intelligent falling in the gravity section of physics, otherwise you are oppressing my beliefs as an evangelical pastafarian. Creation myths then, which one do you choose to mention? If one only mentions the christian one, then even I as a foreigner can see that it violates the establishment clause, you'd also end up with a book 200 pages thick if you were to mention every possible creation myth.

It has been mentioned here before that there has been "controversies" in other subjects as well. Should we teach the controversy in chemistry and therefore teach alchemy? Since this is just a matter of "opinion", there are people who swear that the sun revolvs around the earth (many muslims for example), should this be taught as an alternative "theory" in astronomy?
Should astrology be seen as a valid alternative to astronomy too?
Hell, why not go ahead an teach phrenology in the social sciences class? The explanations there are just as simple as they are in creationism (goddunnit), "you're poor? Not the fault of society, feel these bumps on your head right there?.."

This boils down to people liking the post-modern worldview. But I have news for those people, there are things such as absolute facts. That animals evolve is a fact, it is an observable fact in the fossil records. What we call theories of evolution are explanation as to why and how they evolve. No one disputes the fact that things tend to fall downwards, the theory of gravity describes how and why things fall (which is heresy, everyone knows that intelligent falling is the real deal).
This is not a difference in opinion, a difference in opinion is a difference between two equally valid sides (as in politics for example), this is one side sticking with the facts and the other side closing their eyes to the facts and screaming that they are being oppressed.

Hmmmm, if only there were a class dealing specifically with religious myths, where the teacher could teach it all without having to think about what is scientific......


Their rationale for not wanting to sign the bill for children's rights is as far as I can see that it forbidds the execution of minors, and that it mandates certain anti-poverty measures (which I understand extreme conservatives are usually not a fan of) to reduce children living in empoverished homes. I second Necris in that this is maybe what disturbed me the most, they are effectively giving a big middle finger to children in Texas. It also empowers my belief that the christian right wing are very concerned about being pro-life when the "life" in question is in the uterus, but could not give a damn when the child is out.

This possibly touches on what irks me the most about modern conservatism. They can tout all they want about "personal responsibility", but the playing field is not ....ing leveled for everyone. Some people have the worst luck being born under terrible economical and social conditions, some are born smart and talented, while some are anything but. Life is not fair, but it could be a lot better if morons could understand that some people are in far greater need than a standard "pull up yourself by your bootstraps" can satisfy.
I would love to see these conservatives talking to a person born with AIDS, or someone who stepped on a land-mine. Honestly I'd slap that smug smile of their face with the blown-off stumps I before called arms if I hear either "personal responsibility" or "bootstraps".


*EDIT* I read even more now and saw the stance on pornography... Even if we disregard the argument about free speech (apparently only select people can haz free speech), I say.. Good luck... The internet is roughly 80% pr0n, 15% pictures of cats, and 5% everything else. So good luck, they'll need it. And if they succeed, good on yer for killing the internet (probably a liberal conspiracy from the start eh?).




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Unread 06-28-2012, 01:16 PM   #58
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Page 12: "We oppose the teaching of... critical thinking skills"
You do realize HOTS is a program for a specific subset of children and not Bloom's Taxonomy, right?

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Unread 06-28-2012, 03:48 PM   #59
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You do realize HOTS is a program for a specific subset of children and not Bloom's Taxonomy, right?
That is not what the document language is saying.

They listed critical thinking as a separate item in a list.

"X, Y and Z"
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Unread 06-28-2012, 05:26 PM   #60
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Critical-thinking programs/OBE programs not critical-thinking itself. OBE in the USA looks like NCLB. Granted these are just words written about education by people who probably haven't been in a classroom as anything other than a student or parent. If I didn't teach critical thinking I wouldn't have a job.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 10:36 PM   #61
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Everyone gets a free 10 gallon hat.
Yup, moving to Texas.



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Unread 06-29-2012, 12:32 AM   #62
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I'll buy yours personally, Xaios.

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Unread 06-29-2012, 12:53 AM   #63
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Odd that some vented on Sicarius, who offered a thorough explanation and middle way. One man can't change the system all on his own, that's why it's a democracy.

I've been following the Republican nomination campaign the last few months. Ron Paul excluded who I have high hopes for, I think they've done enough damage to themselves already to not have worry about this thread.

I think the balanced way, as Sicarius clearly outlined, allows children to get on with the important business of being children, without getting involved with the meddling of the confused world adults have made for them.

My first post here covered the power structure of the US political system and it's intertwining with religious organisations for various reasons. Other systems are much the same, although the US central banking system and it's history as a haven for victims of religious persecution make it more practical in America (Mennonites, anyone? I heard their boxing club closed down....*sigh* ).

Is Religious teaching thorough enough?

Interesting that Christians believe in the Jewish Creator, yet pray to an Egyptian deity, Amen Ra, whilst the expatriated/repatriated Jews named the state of Israel after Isis, Amen Ra and Elohim (of the Tetragrammaton).


Promotion of the "prophesy" in the book of revelations (an evangelical favourite) seems consistant in current world events. This "prophesy" outlines the following if complete: A deity would manifest in physical form, so the possibility would exist that he might be killed by dark forces, causing the deity's soul fragments in humans to return to the Creator, ending reality as we know it. (<<< see, that didn't take long to explain, did it?)

Entertaining stuff. What happened in ancient Egypt, the legacy of which has shaped the world, should be in absolute accurate detail in the school textbooks, right?

Especially with current events as they are... (too much complexity in the region for me to type here)

My recollection of Egyptian studies in school was a deliberately vague, obscure, mysterious and brief subject.



If any of that was new or interesting to you, would you have liked someone explain it for you during time in school?

Is science obscured from the public domain?

I wouldn't be so trusting of science either, as some view points have shown. It's suppression is rather simple. One legal method is the Department of Defence can acquire by compulsory purchase any discovery they desire, in the interests of national security.
Eisenhower discussed suppression of science, medicine and technology in detail during his farewell address on January 17, 1961, known for it's reference to his fears of a growing "military industrial complex".


On a different note;
Many things which have enriched all our lives have origins in Texas, so lets keep it civil.



^

@Jakke
I noticed you mentioned the post modern world view and that you have an interest in religion. Perhaps it would do you good to research theologians which take the perspective that technology may explain some religious events, described in the original language texts from the perspective of an uninitiated person.

@Obama's latest news
Y'all getting your health insurance provider picked out, in time for 2014? Who bought shares in medicaid providers this week? Some are up as much as 10% after the announcement. A victory for ...some... people of America.
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Unread 06-29-2012, 07:40 PM   #64
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Maybe you should come here and see what it's actually like?

We're all riding horses, and have oil derricks in our back yards. Everyone gets a free 10 gallon hat.


So what you're saying is that if you don't agree with how a person teaches and raises their child, and if that child grows up to become someone who believes in something drastically differing from your own experiences and teachings, then they're completely wrong?

Because that's what you're saying.


There is nothing wrong with being whatever passes as a political stance these days. It's just differing ideals and actions to solve the same problems. People just want to vilify everything they can to make themselves, and their own understandings the "right" way.
I completely disagree. There is something seriously wrong with a state that publicly states it does not respect critical thinking skills, while charging students with misdemeanors and heavy fines for disobedience in public schools, potentially rendering them incapable to attend college. The state treats citizens like prisoners, and in my opinion it's the second worse behind Arizona in sheer ridiculousness and stupidity.

Let us also keep in mind that Texas is home to one of the largest companies developing and writing our high school text books.

Terrifying, I know.

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Unread 06-29-2012, 07:57 PM   #65
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Here's how it should work gentlemen:


Biology ----> goes into bio textbooks

Religious stuff -----> Religious studies books!



Pretty simple....
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Unread 06-29-2012, 08:00 PM   #66
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I completely disagree. There is something seriously wrong with a state that publicly states it does not respect critical thinking skills, while charging students with misdemeanors and heavy fines for disobedience in public schools, potentially rendering them incapable to attend college. The state treats citizens like prisoners, and in my opinion it's the second worse behind Arizona in sheer ridiculousness and stupidity.

Let us also keep in mind that Texas is home to one of the largest companies developing and writing our high school text books.

Terrifying, I know.


The state hasn't said anything of the sort.

this has come from a pamphlet outlining the platform the Conservative Party is running on for 2012.

As has also been pointed out, text books are written and edited to suite the needs and sympathies of the state and district they are going to.

It's no longer the case that Texas picks the version the rest of the country uses.

Please, before you make more wrong assertions read the whole thread.



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Unread 06-29-2012, 08:26 PM   #67
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The state hasn't said anything of the sort.

this has come from a pamphlet outlining the platform the Conservative Party is running on for 2012.

As has also been pointed out, text books are written and edited to suite the needs and sympathies of the state and district they are going to.

It's no longer the case that Texas picks the version the rest of the country uses.

Please, before you make more wrong assertions read the whole thread.
Oh thank god.

It's still appalling that they chose these words based on what they think will work in the 2012 campaigns.

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Unread 06-29-2012, 08:38 PM   #68
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You're surprised by anything the conservative party does or says?

That's kind of shocking.
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Unread 06-29-2012, 09:43 PM   #69
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I completely disagree. There is something seriously wrong with a state that publicly states it does not respect critical thinking skills, while charging students with misdemeanors and heavy fines for disobedience in public schools, potentially rendering them incapable to attend college. The state treats citizens like prisoners, and in my opinion it's the second worse behind Arizona in sheer ridiculousness and stupidity.

Let us also keep in mind that Texas is home to one of the largest companies developing and writing our high school text books.

Terrifying, I know.
I came out of a Texas school just fine with plenty of skill and got into a University. And while we are on the topic most schools have a majority of in state students attend their college and University of Texas is in the top 10 for electrical engineering. University of Houston is in top 5 for business so if most schools have in state students and these schools have top tier programs why is that all of a sudden because of a pamphlet we are all idiots. However, I do agree with you that our state government could certainly be better, the hands off approach doesn't really work as well as they think it does.

There is a lot of ignorance occurring in this thread that is semi-offensive.

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Unread 06-29-2012, 10:18 PM   #70
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Unread 06-29-2012, 10:42 PM   #71
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I came out of a Texas school just fine with plenty of skill and got into a University. And while we are on the topic most schools have a majority of in state students attend their college and University of Texas is in the top 10 for electrical engineering. University of Houston is in top 5 for business so if most schools have in state students and these schools have top tier programs why is that all of a sudden because of a pamphlet we are all idiots. However, I do agree with you that our state government could certainly be better, the hands off approach doesn't really work as well as they think it does.

There is a lot of ignorance occurring in this thread that is semi-offensive.
I am honestly glad I'm being corrected about this. My Aunt worked in the Fort Worth school system her entire career.

The information I have is based off of this:


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Unread 06-29-2012, 11:00 PM   #72
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I'm sorry, but I'm gonna call bullshit, I'm sure it's happened, but they're not doing it to raise money and get rich off of it..

Campus police forces rose in the past 2 decades? I wonder what nationally scaring, catastrophic events could have happened in that time? It couldn't possibly be to protect the students and faculty from something happening, they're there to "fine and arrest" kids.

The Young Turks is probably my most hated youtube channel next to Nutnfancy.

Also, Bros, I am not a conservative, at all.



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Unread 06-29-2012, 11:15 PM   #73
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That video is so ridiculous.
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Unread 06-30-2012, 11:56 AM   #74
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O

Is Religious teaching thorough enough?

Interesting that Christians believe in the Jewish Creator, yet pray to an Egyptian deity, Amen Ra, whilst the expatriated/repatriated Jews named the state of Israel after Isis, Amen Ra and Elohim (of the Tetragrammaton).


Promotion of the "prophesy" in the book of revelations (an evangelical favourite) seems consistant in current world events. This "prophesy" outlines the following if complete: A deity would manifest in physical form, so the possibility would exist that he might be killed by dark forces, causing the deity's soul fragments in humans to return to the Creator, ending reality as we know it. (<<< see, that didn't take long to explain, did it?)

Entertaining stuff. What happened in ancient Egypt, the legacy of which has shaped the world, should be in absolute accurate detail in the school textbooks, right?

Especially with current events as they are... (too much complexity in the region for me to type here)

My recollection of Egyptian studies in school was a deliberately vague, obscure, mysterious and brief subject.
Here's a fun way to evaluate "prophecy". If I said I was going to predict the lottery numbers but didn't tell you my prediction until after the actual numbers were read you wouldn't as a logical human being think for a moment that I had actually predicted the lottery numbers.
Isn't it funny how this is almost exactly how prophecies are "confirmed", that not until after an event is the "prophecy" made apparent?
I say almost because the prophecies of the past are far more ambiguous in their wording than a lottery prediction, they don't give the exact details (the numbers 21,35,6,15,4,13), at best they allude to generalities (the total amount of numbers is around 6) and are thus applicable to nearly any occurrence at any point in history.
People of the modern world have bought into this bullshit notion that people in the past were more "spiritually aware" (a complete nonsense term) and thus more receptive to "deeper insights" into reality.

Many Christians and Muslims love to say their holy books have predicted a multitude of scientific discoveries and take out of context quotes as "proof" yet when put back into context the "prophecies" reflect a flawed understanding of reality consistent with knowledge at the time, and no scientific discovery has ever been predicted, much less made using verses from the Bible or Qur'an as the sole guiding force.
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Unread 06-30-2012, 11:59 AM   #75
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Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 2,712
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Razzy is shredding to new heights.Razzy is shredding to new heights.Razzy is shredding to new heights.Razzy is shredding to new heights.Razzy is shredding to new heights.Razzy is shredding to new heights.Razzy is shredding to new heights.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necris View Post
no scientific discovery has ever been predicted, much less made using verses from the Bible or Qur'an as any sort of guiding force.
Fixed that for you.
K3V1N SHR3DZ and Bigfan like this.

ESP M-II -> Randall Diavlo 100 -> Mesa Rectifier 4x12 and 2x12.
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