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Unread 06-18-2012, 07:46 AM   #76
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OT, this lack of absolutes is why I absolutely hate social sciences!




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Unread 06-18-2012, 07:58 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakke View Post
Bob, I am not going to insult you back, because that is not what I do. I would advice you to think instead of swiping something of wikipedia though. Is there anything in this condition that objectively makes it a disorder? Is a pedophile "bad" by virtue of their birth? If you want an honest discourse, drop your bias and condemning attitude.
Yes. It is bad that a grown adult would want to sexual predate on children.

They are diseased. Its like you want me to "Accept them as normal". They are sick sick people. If they have the self control to not act on their urges thats better then the alternative.

Its like a sociopath that never acts out. He WANTS to cut your face off and eat it, but he wont. He can't help it. So lets just accept him as normal??? RIGHT?

Do you realize what you are saying/talking about? This goes beyond a "life style choice". This is not "oh well they can't help it, so we must accept it". This is depravity on its lowest form.


The world isn't rainbows and butterflies. People have mental illnesses, and this is one of them. They need help, but if they act before they get it, they deserve death imo.

edit: I didnt mean to "call you out" earlier, I changed my original post to give a generic speech. And YES, Im biased against people that have desires to MOLEST/RAPE young children. Guess Im a horrible person?


edit 2: I was quite serious about the cutting your face off and eating it part.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 08:10 AM   #78
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witnessing your child being molested is a good excuse to beat the f°cker.death may be too much,but he should have thought before acting.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 08:23 AM   #79
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Just equating a pedophile to a sexual predator is biased, one is a product of nature, the other the choice to act on an instinct.

I think you are confusing someone who is pedophilic with a criminal, if someone molests a child they are criminals, and should be prosecuted as such. However, there is a difference between sexual attraction and the desire to rape, rape is an expression of power that only a small section of all people needs to exibit. I am attracted to women, yet I have no desire to rape them, a pedophile does not have to have a desire to rape children.

Okay, who are you to call people who often have done nothing to no one diseased?

A comparison to sociopaths is flawed, a sociopath is someone who has a pathological disrespect for authorities, they are most often chronical criminals, so to say at least (and not the average homocidal whackjob). They have extremely hard to follow laws, no matter how great the support is from the surroundings.

By what moral standard do you judge them as "depraved" or "sick sick people"? Morals usually deal with actions, and if they do not act (we do not know the percentage of pedophiles in any population because of the stigma attached, but most psychologists believe it to be far greater than most people imagine), are they really morally different than you and I? The only moral that I can find that deals with thoughts is the religious morality, and that has it's own innate problems.
If you persist in branding thought-crimes as "immoral", can you really call out homophobes and other bigots for their bigottry?


No problem man, I have gotten worse things slung at me. This is an infected topic with a lot of emotion attached.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 08:37 AM   #80
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I'm a single father, and I've given this topic a lot of thought (not just since the story broke, but since I got custody). Knowing who I am, and how I react to things, I can't say I would act differently than the father in question here. In fact, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stop beating the guy until well-after he is dead. While others are cheering for this action (I admit, the story does put a smile on my face), I've often wondered if I had done the same in a similar situation, how would that further affect my child? Being molested in a tragic thing, for sure, but if anything happens to the parent, the child now has to deal with having a missing father, for whatever period of time, if they go to prison.

Having the father kill somebody and be sent to prison for it is just another extremely difficult thing the child has to deal with on top of it all. That's probably what hurts the most, thinking about this situation. After a traumatic experience, such as being molested, a child is sure to need tons of love, affection, attention, and nurturing, and a parent being behind bars won't make what happened any better.

That's why I hope, if I'm ever faced with a similar situation, that I'm able to be hold myself together, for the sake of my child. I really hope the father does no time over this.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 08:47 AM   #81
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As long as the guy was actually molesting or about to molest his child then he deserved everything he got.

This bit gets me.

James Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, an Austin-based nonprofit group, questioned the father’s decision to “summarily execute” the alleged molester without due process.
“But you cannot summarily execute him, even though I can understand the anger he would have.”

What the ....? I'm pretty sure this guy has never found his daughter getting molested otherwise he wouldn't be saying this at all. How dare he say he can understand the fathers level of anger but then say he shouldn't have done what he did.

Obviously though, on the flip side if he was killed for no reason then the guys a murderer.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #82
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but he should have thought before acting.
The father or the rapist?
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #83
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The father or the rapist?
I think the situation would have been most ideal if the rapist had thought long and hard about it.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:56 AM   #84
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I would of beat that ....er dead too. Now will he be indited? Probably not, since most fathers would do the same and there is no denying that. If anything maybe involuntary man slaughter.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 12:15 PM   #85
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Jakke, the only reason someone would get caught or outed to the general public, or to the police, is because they acted out.

Psychiatrists would only report someone seeking treatment if someone were in danger... which doesn't cover those you keep claiming are the innocent victims of their "orientation."

I'm calling BS on you continually talking about people being unable to seek treatment. You yourself talked about people seeking chemical castration for this (indicative of them being unable to control themselves in my opinion, which undermines another of your points).

If your point is that a particular individual will be reported to the authorities because it is likely they are a danger to others, and you want the community to just accept that danger... bullshit on that. *NO ONE* would be okay with rules which allow a person to report plans to hurt someone else with impunity, whether it be a predator, a husband who tells his shrink he has rope, a shovel and quicklime for dealing with his estranged wife, whatever.

----

I'm going to return to my earlier point:

Those who keep wanting more tolerance of known pedophiles need to understand that they are known because they couldn't keep Johnny in the pulpit, but wanted him to preach in public.

No normal human being is okay with someone like this, someone who has outed themselves, in their community. The biological imperative is to kill that person. To argue against biology just won't work in these cases, and there isn't any sort of debate about it.

(Also, I'm going to admit that, the same way all normal people are wary, and react in these situations, I'm feeling uncomfortable with how much you need the rest of us to be understanding towards these predators. You're not going to change any hearts on this issue, so I beg you, let's just agree to disagree on this issue, because you're coming across in a way which is making my antenna stand up.)

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-18-2012, 12:19 PM   #86
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Regarding any parent going to jail over something like this, it's not likely. Getting a grand jury to indict on something like this is a hard sell, getting a jury to convict on something like this is nearly impossible, and no state governor in his or her right mind would offend all the parents in the constituency by not either commuting a sentence, or pardoning outright a parent who killed a predator in the heat of the moment.

Biological imperative. Protecting a child. No one in their right mind would argue against it.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-18-2012, 01:16 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakke View Post
Stuff.
I had to step away from this discussion yesterday because of how irate I had become. Listening to people like you try to convince others that pedophiles are people who are victims of there own genetics makes me sick to my stomach. Your persistence on this matter raises red flags for me. Just to point out a few important flaws in your bullshit excuse for grown men having the deisre to .... kids ;
In reference to your statement that " pedophiles aren't rapist because they don't want to rape kids." What is it they want to do with them ? Ride a bike ? Play hopscotch ? Neither, they have the desire to have some form of intercourse with them, forcibly or not ( I have a hard time understanding the "or not" part )
In reference to calling someone who has done nothing diseased ? Please, there are plenty, 100's of 1000's of people out there with mental disorders like paranoid schizophrenia, psychopathy and such who may or may not have acted on there ailment but that ailment is still a disease or a disorder.
In reference to
Quote:
By what moral standard do you judge them as "depraved" or "sick sick people"? Morals usually deal with actions, and if they do not act (we do not know the percentage of pedophiles in any population because of the stigma attached, but most psychologists believe it to be far greater than most people imagine), are they really morally different than you and I?
They are depraved because they have the desire to have intercourse with a child. The desire is there so therefore they are sick individuals.
In reference to
Quote:
If you persist in branding thought-crimes as "immoral", can you really call out homophobes and other bigots for their bigottry?
Can I ? Well obviously not because I am unaware. Though be sure if I did, or the individual who had opinions like that insinuated these thoughts I would most definately be sure to call them on it.

If I had the desire to shove a gerbal up my ass while ....ing a german shephard while listening to Attack Attack ! that would make me a sick individual, no one is going to argue that. To say just because someone has the desire to .... little kids doesn't make them a threat or a bad person is, as you would put it, flawed logic, and, as I would put it, ....ing stupid and disgusting and raises red flags for me as to what kind of thoughts are going through your head.

People like you are the reason why the child molester in this case would have, if not had the hero of a father taken matters into his own hands, ended up getting a short term prison sentence. People like you are the reason these sick ....s are let out after said short term prison sentences likely to re-offend.
I am sick to death of leftist liberal "Everyone an everything is equal and were all just a bunch of happy ....ers" white wash hippies infecting the judicial system and infecting society. It's not all candy canes an lollipops, were not all equal, not by a long shot. Not everyone should have the same rights, not by a long shot. Pedophiles and anyone that falls under that definition are lesser people and a threat to our young and should be treated as such. Anyone convicted of that should be locked away until there is either no desire or no threat.
So the next time you hear in the news about how yet another "likely to re-offend" child rapist is released into the community or commits another act of pedophilia I want you to come back to this thread and read some of the things you have said. Like how there just victims of there disease or whatever it is you said.

Regardless, I have no desire to further this issue with you, you obviously seem to think that just because someone wants to .... a little kid that doesn't make them necesarilly a bad person and I obviously think that anyone with these thoughts or desires should swan dive into a ....ing woodchipper and to me that puts us at a standstill because I will never, ever, waiver on this issue.

The topic at hand is the case and the events leading up to and surrounding it. Not a moral debate on pedophilia. I would appreciate it if you would stay on topic. If you would like to make your own thread about how you think it's ok for people to want to .... little kids but not necessarily act on those desires, then by all means, go ahead, I would love to see the reaction you get



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Unread 06-18-2012, 01:54 PM   #88
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Again, I have to note that if something is a thoughtcrime, then there is no way for others to know about it. Only by someone making moves to act out on it (no informed adult consent = rape, so we're talking about raping a child) can that frame of mind become known.

And, in case you didn't know, there is no crime in thinking about it.

I didn't read the whole earlier post which apparently equates bigotry (the Holocaust, the KKK lynching blacks) with the community outrage against someone committing rape on kids.

I'm completely weirded out by how strongly this is being defended. Occasionally I post about how some lack insight into their actions, but this is about something so serious that I can't ignore it. I'm letting a cop friend of mine know about this topic, because this is too many red flags in case something might come up in the future.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-18-2012, 01:58 PM   #89
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I would like to make a social commentary though, which is no way in defense of pedophiles, predators or whatever you want to call them. The consensus of beauty in the last decades have been famished, anorectic models that so no traits of woman hood. No hips, no breasts and faces that are "perfect". Perfect meaning very symmetrical with very soft features. Remind you of something? I am not saying that the representation of women in the fashion world as prepubescent girls is to blame for the urges of these individuals but it is not helping either. Aside from an innate sense of beauty, children also identify with the standards of beauty as presented by society.
However someone would make the case that since there are adult women like that why don't these people go after them (in a legal manner) and not have any problems. Maybe this is the distinction between pedophiles and sexual predators.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 02:15 PM   #90
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Again, I have to note that if something is a thoughtcrime, then there is no way for others to know about it. Only by someone making moves to act out on it (no informed adult consent = rape, so we're talking about raping a child) can that frame of mind become known.

And, in case you didn't know, there is no crime in thinking about it.

I didn't read the whole earlier post which apparently equates bigotry (the Holocaust, the KKK lynching blacks) with the community outrage against someone committing rape on kids.

I'm completely weirded out by how strongly this is being defended. Occasionally I post about how some lack insight into their actions, but this is about something so serious that I can't ignore it. I'm letting a cop friend of mine know about this topic, because this is too many red flags in case something might come up in the future.
I know there isn't a crime against thinking about.....although there should be. I'm stressing that people can insinuate what there thinking though, for instance going on for 3 solid pages defending the mind and rights of pedophiles...and that leaves those "thoughts" up for "discussion" and persecution.
Basically, whats-his-nuts is trying to say that Immoral thoughts are not immoral because morality is an invention of society and that society wanting to decimate anyone with pedophilic thoughts is equal to that of the holocaust like you say and that, to me, is beyond ....ed up ( as in I disagree heavily).



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Unread 06-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #91
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I'm not worried about the thoughtcrime aspect at this point.

I remember when Junior Burdynski disappeared, and when a detective friend of mine was on the scene at the house of a suspect, he told me that with all the cop cars, lights and so on, none of the neighbors were outside. That means, everyone knew why the cops were there.

If they saw a lot of warning signs and ignored them over time (and they did), then that led to the final situation.

And that's why I've now reacted to the red flags. One flag would be a philosophical point. A bunch makes me worry about a kid being at risk, and so I've let someone else know who would have the ability to discern if it's just anonymous chatter on the internet... or a situation which needs watching over time.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-18-2012, 04:46 PM   #92
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Excuse me, are you serious? Do you take from me not agreeing with you that I could be a pedophile? May I remind you that I am not anymous here, my Facebook is in the social networking thread, and I regularily interact with members from here on Facebook. Actually, you have proven my point, so that is at least a relief to know that while ECPAT pulls out the thumbscrews...




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Unread 06-18-2012, 04:53 PM   #93
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Excuse me, are you serious? Do you take from me not agreeing with you that I could be a pedophile? May I remind you that I am not anymous here, my Facebook is in the social networking thread, and I regularily interact with members from here on Facebook.




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Unread 06-18-2012, 04:56 PM   #94
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It's true, go look in the social networking thread for yourself.

*EDIT*Was the neg-rep really necessary? Explorer did after all say what he said.




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Unread 06-18-2012, 04:57 PM   #95
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I think Explorer and Matt397 have overstepped their grounds at this point. Accusing him of being a pedophile for seeing a difference between people who think about things and people who act on them is a bit too far, imo.

EDIT: Especially, Explorer, if you reported him to some authority figure (as your post made it sound) because of his posts in this thread, none of which are condoning child molestation or sex with minors in ANY WAY.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by highlordmugfug View Post
I think Explorer and Matt397 have overstepped their grounds at this point. Accusing him of being a pedophile for seeing a difference between people who think about things and people who act on them is a bit too far, imo.
It's not as cut and dry as a difference of opinion. You have someone defending pedophilia or pedophilic thoughts. As I stated I find that alarming and makes me wonder what kinds of things are going on in his head. I never once stated that I think he has pedophilic thoughts. Flawed logic, yes, white washed convoluted view of society, yes, do I question why he has so adamantly defended pedophiles and there rights, maybe. Though I never outright stated I think he is a pedophile and hey everyone look heres a kiddie diddler.

*Edit* Besides all that, I already stated earlier, this thread wasn't intended as a moral debate on pedophilia and if I knew myself or anyone else would've ended up in a heated debate about thought crimes and pedophiles rights I wouldn't have opened the thread. If the mods see fit to close the thread then close it.
Quote:
Matt397: The topic at hand is the case and the events leading up to and surrounding it. Not a moral debate on pedophilia. I would appreciate it if you would stay on topic.



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Unread 06-18-2012, 05:46 PM   #97
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Explorer, I'm curious as to whether you'd like to elaborate on the action you've taken. Did you seriously report posters here to the police, and if so, who?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around how this thread has developed...
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Unread 06-18-2012, 05:54 PM   #98
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I let someone know that I had concerns, yes.

Here's my viewpoint: If there is the possibility that a kid is at risk in the real world, I'd rather have someone look into it. That's my conscience, and overrides any kind of niceties in the virtual world.

If that someone, who has more experience in this kind of thing than I, sees red flags, then they might look deeper. They might decide that it's just someone making a free speech argument, and that I'm being just a little paranoid... and I'm okay with that.

Many times, you hear of someone saying, oh, I thought that was odd... but you hear about it too late.

If any of you feel that my doing so was out of line with the site agreement, be sure to report me to the mods. I'd rather be banned for life from this site than to take the risk that there was smoke, fire, and I didn't at least let someone know there might be a problem.

In fact, I'll self-report myself right now.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakke View Post
^I agree, and if someone is a pedophile, they are not automatically a child molester. A pedophile cannot help being a pedophile, much like someone who is gay or straight had no say in the matter.
It's kind of like saying that all heterosexual men are rapists. Not condoning any acts, but I'm just putting it out there.
I am utterly opposed to this idea that since pedophilia is apparently genetic pedophiles are a class of people persecuted for their sexuality by the law. The People who take this stance are essentially pedophile apologists who make it that much easier for people to equate homosexuality directly with pedophilia.

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Unread 06-18-2012, 08:28 PM   #100
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I think everyone needs to calm it down a bit, K? Matt and Explorer, you guys both overstepped, and you know it. Back off.

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