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Unread 04-25-2012, 07:40 AM   #1
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The Zimmerman/Martin Case

What are your guys' thoughts on this case?


I'm having trouble deciding whether or not I think Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. The whole "racist" side of this case has been seeming increasingly ridiculous to me, given the fact that the 911 call proves that race was not mentioned until the dispatcher asked Zimmerman Martin's race.

Also, I've been struggling with the fact that, just because Martin was unarmed, it didn't necessarily mean he was innocent. The prosecution has been adamant about the whole "armed with Skittles and iced tea" thing, but it could have just as easily been that Martin attacked Zimmerman as reported without being aware that he was attacking an armed man.


Anyway, I'm still trying to level my head on this case. What are your guys' thoughts?

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Unread 04-25-2012, 09:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
What are your guys' thoughts on this case?


I'm having trouble deciding whether or not I think Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. The whole "racist" side of this case has been seeming increasingly ridiculous to me, given the fact that the 911 call proves that race was not mentioned until the dispatcher asked Zimmerman Martin's race.

Also, I've been struggling with the fact that, just because Martin was unarmed, it didn't necessarily mean he was innocent. The prosecution has been adamant about the whole "armed with Skittles and iced tea" thing, but it could have just as easily been that Martin attacked Zimmerman as reported without being aware that he was attacking an armed man.


Anyway, I'm still trying to level my head on this case. What are your guys' thoughts?
He followed Trayvon after being told not to by 911, and then shot him and killed him.

Racist or not, he's guilty.
[/thread]
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Unread 04-25-2012, 09:42 AM   #3
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Just glad he was finally arrested. I have my opinions on what happened and his intentions but since I wasn't there, that's up to the jury to decide.

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Unread 04-25-2012, 05:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlordmugfug View Post
He followed Trayvon after being told not to by 911, and then shot him and killed him.

Racist or not, he's guilty.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 05:36 PM   #5
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I don't get how this has turned into a "white on black" racism case. Yet Zimmerman was hispanic iirc.



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Unread 04-25-2012, 05:49 PM   #6
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I don't get how this has turned into a "white on black" racism case. Yet Zimmerman was hispanic iirc.
Yes, Zimmerman is of mixes American and Peruvian decent. But let's not forget that there is bo such thing as a "hispanic race". Hispanics are a linguistic ethnicity, not a racial one. So you can have any color skin and still be hispanic. So, in this case, Zimmerman is a White Half Hispanic, if we go by those standards.

Even if he was of a different ethnicity, I still think racial prejudice had a lot to do with this. But like it has been said already, he he shot and killed an unarmed minor, while disobeying orders from the 911 dispatcher. So I say let's cut the BS already.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 05:52 PM   #7
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Just to play devil's advocate. You guys do know that a 911 operator is not a police officer right? They are just a regular civilian. You dont have to follow any suggestion they give you.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 05:55 PM   #8
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It'd be like picking a fight with someone say an MMA fighter and then getting your ass kicked. That is essentially what happened (not the MMA part) and when he was losing he shot him (maybe accidentally). That is part of my problem with concealed carry; some people get a little too cocky and get themselves into situations they normally would avoid.

Since Zimmerman has blame in that regard and the other person is dead I'd say he deserves to serve some time. However, I doubt race was involved and I don't think he intentionally shot him (but I wasn't there so).

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Unread 04-25-2012, 06:00 PM   #9
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I heard the phone call both he made and a woman on the street made as the kid was shot, and it seems like he was just a bit of a nut job.

I believe Zimmerman was also fired from a security job after being very heavy handed and attacking a woman. Sounds like the guy had anger issues, and people with anger issues and a gun are dangerous. It doesn't seem like there is much room for opinion on this. He chased down and shot a 17 year-old unarmed kid who wasn't a threat.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 06:19 PM   #10
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As for the wounds as evidence (which weren't severe). If someone chased you down and started accusing you of something I think you'd get defensive too (he is a teenager after all). That to me makes him at the very least irresponsible as said before.

Also, his reaction was oddly calm, but that is not really relevant.

Frankly no matter what happened this whole thing got blown way out of proportion just like all those crazy mom cases. While it is fine that it is public information it is hard for a jury to be unbiased when the media already decides who is guilty. Although as my other posts stated I do think he is guilty that is not how our court systems are meant to work.

With that case about the woman and her getting arrested right away (for NOT shooting her husband) versus this case (Man KILLS 17 yr old) where they waited till media outcry I think this case did need further investigation and I don't think the former should have been a case at all. Our legal system is so bureaucratic that it can't tell the difference between a good case and a bad one. Following law blindly and all its technicalities are just ridiculous that's why I do feel like cases should be initially looked at subjectively to weigh their merit.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Just to play devil's advocate. You guys do know that a 911 operator is not a police officer right? They are just a regular civilian. You dont have to follow any suggestion they give you.
That was one of the things that made me a little curious, as the big outcry is that he disobeyed a law enforcement officer, and yet I was under the same impression.

I have no doubt he is guilty of murder--Martin is dead. But I am still a little curious as to how things really went down, as it seems curious to me that he would just rampage on a random kid. Maybe I just don't understand it because I can't fathom someone doing something like that without provocation and it's my dis-understanding that leads me to still be curious about this case.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
That was one of the things that made me a little curious, as the big outcry is that he disobeyed a law enforcement officer, and yet I was under the same impression.

I have no doubt he is guilty of murder--Martin is dead. But I am still a little curious as to how things really went down, as it seems curious to me that he would just rampage on a random kid. Maybe I just don't understand it because I can't fathom someone doing something like that without provocation and it's my dis-understanding that leads me to still be curious about this case.
Well I'm not saying that this is what I believe.

But the media shows pictures of Trayvon like this one;



But supposedly this one was taked about 5 or so years before. When Martin was 13.

This is supposedly him when he was 17:





Honestly, I think the Media is a "little" too bias.

IMHO; I think Trayvon; who was reportedly a large stocky football player. Got into a fight with Zimmerman after Zimmerman saw him walk 'suspicously' into a gated community; where Trayvon's Father lived.

Zimmerman thought it was suspicous, called 911. Asked to wait, but went forward anyway. Got into a fight with Trayvon. Was getting his ass kicked and shot Trayvon.

Personally I think that they are as bad as each other.

One is a Neighbourhood watch coordinator with issues. And the other a young man involved in a gang.



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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:35 AM   #13
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Trayvon was not in a gang. Those pictures are not of him. Please, please get your facts straight and stop speculating.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:37 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Guitarman700 View Post
Trayvon was not in a gang. Those pictures are not of him. Please, please get your facts straight and stop speculating.
Like I said, "apparently this is what Trayvon looked like"

About the Gang bit, I honestly have no idea.



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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooluke41 View Post
Like I said, "apparently this is what Trayvon looked like"

About the Gang bit, I honestly have no idea.
You have no idea, and yet you compare the two men and say they were the same? I don't follow your logical process at all.
Baseless speculation has no place in a case like this, or any part of life, really. Wait till the facts are in, before passing any kind of judgment.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:40 AM   #16
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Also, even if it is him who said giving a camera the finger and wearing a grill makes you a thug or in a gang. Are all people with long hair and black shirts pot head losers who don't work. Seriously bad stereotyping there either way.

I agreed with the rest that they both had responsibility except Zimmerman in the end killed him which is worse than someone responding to an accusation and fighting. If someone made slurs at me and was making wild accusations to my face/questioning me I'd probably punch his ass out too and based on his wounds he probably took one punch to the face and hit the concrete (causing the blood on back of head). IMO the rest is fabricated for dramatic effect so he looks less guilty than he is.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitarman700 View Post
Trayvon was not in a gang. Those pictures are not of him. Please, please get your facts straight and stop speculating.
Actually, those pictures are of him. As for being in a gang? I've not heard any evidence to back that up, so I doubt its validity.


There have been reports that Martin was currently suspended from school for being caught with drug paraphernalia and that is why he was at his father's.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:41 AM   #18
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I didn't say they were "the same" I said that they were both as bad as each other.

I think it's a bit unfair of the Media to portray Zimmerman as an evil guy, and to portray Martin as a Saint.

There's two sides to the story.

Fair enough about the gang bit though.

@flint (I've forgotten how to quote... )

I'm not speculating just from the pictures.

According to his twitter, he was a gang member.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...-a-drug-dealer

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooluke41 View Post
I didn't say they were "the same" I said that they were both as bad as each other.

I think it's a bit unfair of the Media to portray Zimmerman as an evil guy, and to portray Martin as a Saint.

There's two sides to the story.

Fair enough about the gang bit though.

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I'm not speculating just from the pictures.

According to his twitter, he was a gang member.

Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer?

Meet The Real Trayvon Martin: Evidence Emerges He Was A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger « Pat Dollard

iOwnTheWorld.com » Blog Archive » Was Trayvon Martin A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger?
Well that's something I've yet to see. I'm actually interested to read these in a little bit.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooluke41 View Post
I didn't say they were "the same" I said that they were both as bad as each other.

I think it's a bit unfair of the Media to portray Zimmerman as an evil guy, and to portray Martin as a Saint.

There's two sides to the story.

Fair enough about the gang bit though.

@flint (I've forgotten how to quote... )

I'm not speculating just from the pictures.

According to his twitter, he was a gang member.

Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer?

Meet The Real Trayvon Martin: Evidence Emerges He Was A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger « Pat Dollard

iOwnTheWorld.com » Blog Archive » Was Trayvon Martin A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger?
Scrolling through those it is all speculation. I know plenty of people who like being perceived as gang member and throw up signs etc. to seem cool and as for the drug thing on there taking pictures of some dope by someone else doesn't make him a drug dealer that is just silly. I'm sure there are some people on this forum who smoke pot and I'm sure they are not drug dealers (maybe ). Not saying it isn't true because I wouldn't know, but nothing seems definitive.

The tweet about kicking someones ass though is intriguing, although irrelevant honestly. What I said before still applies as to the violence and what not. If those are true he is clearly hot headed, but that doesn't mean he just randomly beats up strangers. In fact by the sound of what I'm reading it is people who have irritated him which would also imply that Zimmerman approached him first. Not justifying anything for either side, but it does set the point that Zimmerman shouldn't have approached him. It seems like people with concealed carry all of a sudden have bigger balls.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooluke41 View Post
I didn't say they were "the same" I said that they were both as bad as each other.

I think it's a bit unfair of the Media to portray Zimmerman as an evil guy, and to portray Martin as a Saint.

There's two sides to the story.

Fair enough about the gang bit though.

@flint (I've forgotten how to quote... )

I'm not speculating just from the pictures.

According to his twitter, he was a gang member.

Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer?

Meet The Real Trayvon Martin: Evidence Emerges He Was A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger « Pat Dollard

iOwnTheWorld.com » Blog Archive » Was Trayvon Martin A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger?
Pat Dollard is crazy. Literally crazy. I would take ANYTHING he says with a massive grain of salt.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:58 AM   #22
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Just read the title a drug dealer and a gang banger are 2 different things and even if you are in a gang you aren't necessarily doing either. When people slant things either way like the child picks of Trayvon and these overkill personas these article build it is discredited almost immediately in my book.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:59 AM   #23
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Pat Dollard is crazy. Literally crazy. I would take ANYTHING he says with a massive grain of salt.
I just quickly found something related to this case.

I don't know who the hell is crazy or not crazy.

I've never even been on Pat Dollard's site before, Just found that then.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 12:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pooluke41 View Post
I just quickly found something related to this case.

I don't know who the hell is crazy or not crazy.

I've never even been on Pat Dollard's site before, Just found that then.
That's my point, though. If you just grab the first article you see, who's to say if it's true or not? You could simply be spreading misinformation.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 12:01 PM   #25
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Scrolling through those it is all speculation. I know plenty of people who like being perceived as gang member and throw up signs etc. to seem cool and as for the drug thing on there taking pictures of some dope by someone else doesn't make him a drug dealer that is just silly. I'm sure there are some people on this forum who smoke pot and I'm sure they are not drug dealers (maybe ). Not saying it isn't true because I wouldn't know, but nothing seems definitive.

The tweet about kicking someones ass though is intriguing, although irrelevant honestly. What I said before still applies as to the violence and what not. If those are true he is clearly hot headed, but that doesn't mean he just randomly beats up strangers. In fact by the sound of what I'm reading it is people who have irritated him which would also imply that Zimmerman approached him first. Not justifying anything for either side, but it does set the point that Zimmerman shouldn't have approached him. It seems like people with concealed carry all of a sudden have bigger balls.
Whether the gang claims are true or not, it goes a mile toward showing the kid's mentality (if it is true), something that has as of yet been described as shining and perfect. This sheds light on a possibly different person entirely from who the parents are claiming their son is, which is a huge impact upon the case. And as for the following bit, well, he was part of the neighborhood watch after all, and while that doesn't give him all the rights in the world, it does give him a bit of leeway when inspecting suspicious behavior. I'm not siding with him, but I'm still having a ton of trouble pinning this case, because the portrayal of Zimmerman had me fairly suspicious from the get-go, especially seeing as, if you read his site, he was obsessed with law enforcement and had extreme views on right/wrong and such.
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