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Unread 05-17-2012, 10:36 PM   #176
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Because with stand your ground the gun holder seems to get the benefit and no one else same with if someone is killed versus injuring/not shooting, but threatening. It is totally backwards and there isn't a single state's version that I think works well. Texas Castle law is just as flawed...
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Unread 05-18-2012, 11:00 AM   #177
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How about non-lethal weapons like a taser?
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Unread 05-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #178
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Without opening up a completely different can of worms, there are certainly documented cases in which the (improper) use of a taser has caused fatalities. As always, virtually anything can be a lethal weapon, in the hands of one who intends to use it as such.

In other words, if the hypothetical person in the "aggressor" position of this type of altercation was armed with a taser instead of a gun, who's to say their eventual rage-mode would not still have ended in murder?

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Unread 05-18-2012, 07:38 PM   #179
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How about non-lethal weapons like a taser?
Only if you agree to get tazed repeatedly before getting your license.

Seriously though, it is not fun.

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Unread 05-18-2012, 07:49 PM   #180
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My problem with those laws is it puts power into untrained hands and then doesn't even have clear guidelines to follow. It's so murky (like many laws except this one involves someone being murdered). Worst part about the way laws are done is that for complicated laws you don't know what you're doing is legal or not until you've already done it. The information is there, but it isn't given in a weekly breakdown or anything like that (which would be nice for busy people like myself).

Not sure if a tazer would count or not because it can definitely kill. Wouldn't be too hard to either especially if someone had any electronic body parts like a pacemaker or a mechanical heart or something.

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Unread 05-18-2012, 07:52 PM   #181
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Unread 05-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #182
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Update:



If I was the defense, I would reiterate that witness testimony is the lowest form of evidence.

Except in the Legal system. Of course.

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Unread 05-24-2012, 12:39 AM   #183
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Yeah witnesses are too tainted and if they switch their opinion down the road when it is least fresh on their minds I have to be against this...


public info has probably influenced the switching of opinions and mind you I think he is guilty.

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Unread 05-24-2012, 12:57 AM   #184
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Witnesses can be impeached (their credibility can be called into question) by prior inconsistent statements.

And, sadly, while our legal system places enormous emphasis on testimony and cross-examination, witness memory and testimony is incredibly inaccurate.
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Unread 05-24-2012, 04:19 PM   #185
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Quote:
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Yeah witnesses are too tainted and if they switch their opinion down the road when it is least fresh on their minds I have to be against this...


public info has probably influenced the switching of opinions and mind you I think he is guilty.
If it holds up in court...



I think that there are a number of factors that can cause witnesses to change their stories, the least of which is public info.

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Unread 05-24-2012, 08:13 PM   #186
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I've been in a car accident before where initially I thought one thing happened, down the road I thought about it and came to a different conclusion. While my second theory could be more accurate it is also the least reliable.

There are definitely plenty of reasons for a change in opinion, but I honestly do think public slant has some affect on this if not most.

Well considering more than one has changed their opinion it does seem plausible that it could be accepted just depends on how big the discrepancy.

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Unread 06-01-2012, 02:58 PM   #187
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Unread 06-01-2012, 11:02 PM   #188
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That does damage his crediblity even farther, even though it's not incident related.
Man, I bet Zimmerman sure wishes he could rewind and just take the ass-kickin and go on with life.
Some people just can't mentally handle getting their ass kicked though, especially by a teenager lol.
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Unread 06-02-2012, 11:19 AM   #189
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That does damage his crediblity even farther, even though it's not incident related.
Man, I bet Zimmerman sure wishes he could rewind and just take the ass-kickin and go on with life.
Some people just can't mentally handle getting their ass kicked though, especially by a teenager lol.
Hopefully the shit-slinging and example made by this trial teaches future Neighborhood Watch members and other gun-toting idiots to be more careful when they point and shoot the damn things.
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Unread 06-03-2012, 11:11 AM   #190
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Man, I bet Zimmerman sure wishes he could rewind and just take the ass-kickin and go on with life.
Hopefully, he would instead wish he hadn't lied to the cops, and then jumped out of his car to deliver an ass-kicking, secure in the knowledge he was armed.
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Unread 06-03-2012, 02:55 PM   #191
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Yeah the better comment would have been man I bet he wishes he NEVER got out of his vehicle in the first place.

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Unread 06-03-2012, 03:12 PM   #192
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Yeah the better comment would have been man I bet he wishes he NEVER got out of his vehicle in the first place.
I'm sure that's true.
Also, I'm betting Martin wishes (if he was alive to wish) that he'd have either been submisive and allowed himself to be detained by a fellow citizen (however degrading that seems),
or just ran like hell (I'm quite certain Zimmerman would not have caught him or fired the weapon into martins back.

I think we got two guys with too much macho both.
Unfortunately we now have one guy with too much macho.
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Unread 06-03-2012, 03:18 PM   #193
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I can agree with that, too much testosterone for sure. It is a shame things turned out the way they did...

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Unread 06-04-2012, 07:56 AM   #194
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I'm sure that's true.
Also, I'm betting Martin wishes (if he was alive to wish) that he'd have either been submisive and allowed himself to be detained by a fellow citizen (however degrading that seems),
or just ran like hell (I'm quite certain Zimmerman would not have caught him or fired the weapon into martins back.
There's no evidence that Zimmerman was asking Martin to be submissive. The only evidence so far is that Zimmerman jumped him right after Zimmerman lied to the cops and got off the phone.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-04-2012, 09:19 AM   #195
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I'm sure that's true.
Also, I'm betting Martin wishes (if he was alive to wish) that he'd have either been submisive and allowed himself to be detained by a fellow citizen (however degrading that seems),
or just ran like hell (I'm quite certain Zimmerman would not have caught him or fired the weapon into martins back.

I think we got two guys with too much macho both.
Unfortunately we now have one guy with too much macho.
At the same time, if some guy with no badge or source of authority came over to me and started yelling at me and threatening me, I'd either think he was going to mug me or attack me. So, I'd either run, or fight back. I don't think it's an absurd reaction on the kid's part, especially if he was 17.

If you're going to carry a gun or act as neighborhood watch, you need to show great responsibility in how you use said gun and said authority.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 10:21 AM   #196
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If you're going to carry a gun or act as neighborhood watch, you need to show great responsibility in how you use said gun and said authority.
x100

As a gun owner, and someone who has participated in a neighborhood watch program in the past, it's folks like this, who lack proper responsibility and respect for the power that a firearm holds, that makes us all look like wackos.

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Unread 06-06-2012, 02:16 AM   #197
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There's no evidence that Zimmerman was asking Martin to be submissive. The only evidence so far is that Zimmerman jumped him right after Zimmerman lied to the cops and got off the phone.
True, but my point was just that if it had been handled differently by either party (and I'm on the side of "Zimmerman was a reckless, overzelous, douchbag, cowboy cop wannabe who is a very poor example of a responsible gun owner") the outcome would most likely have been much more acceptably different.

I'm just saying that it's a shame Martin didn't just run like hell, or even have turned around and said "can I help you, what seems to be the problem sir (you asshole wannabe cop)?.

Of course that should not have been Martin's obligation to do so, but it just might have saved his life.

And if it was the case that Zimmerman just charged without warning, then Martin would have been better to take his chances running (as proven by the outcome).

edit; common sense would hold that there was some sort of verbal exchange prior to it getting physical, but i haven't even been following it close enough to know if there were any witness reports of yelling or commotion prior to the deadly scuffle.
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Unread 06-06-2012, 05:25 AM   #198
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And if it was the case that Zimmerman just charged without warning, then Martin would have been better to take his chances running (as proven by the outcome).
Kinda hard to outrun a bullet.

Quote:
common sense
Something Mr. Zimmerman seems to lack in large doses.
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Unread 06-06-2012, 02:22 PM   #199
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Kinda hard to outrun a bullet.
Better chance running than standing in one spot , (as proven by the outcome)
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Unread 06-06-2012, 02:24 PM   #200
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Better chance running than standing in one spot , (as proven by the outcome)
By that logic I have a better shot at a Playmate by simply being named "Hugh".

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