Ted Nugent being a lunatic shitbag

[athawulf]

Originally Posted by Jakke

NO! Because that would let dem queerosexuals in, and people could marry animals, and their muslim president would convert everyone by the sword, and the New World Order would rise, and the bible would be removed from schools, and those dam mexicans would take all the jobs. Not to mention that all the UN and chinese troops hidden in the national parks would annect the capital, therefore it is of vital importance that every american owns a high powered automatic weapon with incendiary ammo.

Everything would just go to hell literally.

I like how you made an entire thread to broadcast ways to improve argument on a forum then use one of the fallacies yourself

Illustrated rhetorical fallacies

[Adam Of Angels]

^ If you didn't catch that he was joking..... well... nevermind.

[athawulf]

You can utilize humor to make a point. If you can't catch that... well... nevermind.

[groph]

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

Exactly, but that's a state law, not federal.

So you don't have an issue with the states governing you, but you have a problem with the federal government doing so. Conservative viewpoints are pretty underrepresented on this board however my mother shares a lot of similar views with you so I hear about them. The issue really is what a government can and cannot do IE you're not against birth control if you just think that the federal government shouldn't tell the state governments to enact legislation X Y or Z promoting or prohibiting birth control - you merely think that such laws should be controlled by the states and not the feds, you want the states to be as autonomous as possible, right? Otherwise, liberals and conservatives end up talking past each other when in reality the debate is about the role of government, not whether or not such a practice (like using birth control) is acceptable or not.

I'm just trying to decode the rhetoric here.

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

Good point, but there's no law requiring income or product purchace for tax collection.
They don't make you pay fines or jail you for not working (as evidenced by obama's welfare encouraging policies).

Well yeah but you're kind of ....ed if you don't work, aren't you? I doubt welfare is REALLY enough to live on.

[TRENCHLORD]

Originally Posted by groph

So you don't have an issue with the states governing you, but you have a problem with the federal government doing so. Conservative viewpoints are pretty underrepresented on this board however my mother shares a lot of similar views with you so I hear about them. The issue really is what a government can and cannot do IE you're not against birth control if you just think that the federal government shouldn't tell the state governments to enact legislation X Y or Z promoting or prohibiting birth control - you merely think that such laws should be controlled by the states and not the feds, you want the states to be as autonomous as possible, right? Otherwise, liberals and conservatives end up talking past each other when in reality the debate is about the role of government, not whether or not such a practice (like using birth control) is acceptable or not.

I'm just trying to decode the rhetoric here.



Well yeah but you're kind of ....ed if you don't work, aren't you? I doubt welfare is REALLY enough to live on.

Yeah that's about right on all counts.
At least with the feds staying out of most shit we can just move to one of the states that suite our individual needs or desires the best,
if it's an important enough issue to justify moving.
Although I personally just ignore bullshit legaslstion, so I'm staying put.


Also, I'd say you have a very smart mom .

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by athawulf

You can utilize humor to make a point. If you can't catch that... well... nevermind.

He was joking.

[groph]

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

Yeah that's about right on all counts.
At least with the feds staying out of most shit we can just move to one of the states that suite our individual needs or desires the best,
if it's an important enough issue to justify moving.
Although I personally just ignore bullshit legaslstion, so I'm staying put.


Also, I'd say you have a very smart mom .

Well I'm not conservative in the least and I think she's just trying to counter liberal bias with conservative bias and it really makes my head hurt. She is smart but I have an exorbitantly hard time agreeing with/debating with staunch conservatives on almost anything.

I'm just tired of dumb liberals (usually young and impressionable like myself) arguing past conservatives (of varying intelligence) over points that aren't even being argued IE whether or not GOP candidate A is actually against people using birth control when in reality GOP candidate A might be personally against birth control but he believes it's not in his jurisdiction to decide whether or not such a practice should be made into law or not - that's if I'm understanding things correctly. I don't read up on political debates as much as I probably should.

As far as your typical "liberal" and typical "conservative" are concerned, while I agree more with the liberal, I hate them both .

[Necris]

Originally Posted by athawulf

I like how you made an entire thread to broadcast ways to improve argument on a forum then use one of the fallacies yourself

Illustrated rhetorical fallacies

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

^ If you didn't catch that he was joking..... well... nevermind.

Originally Posted by athawulf

You can utilize humor to make a point. If you can't catch that... well... nevermind.

Jakkes post was a good example of Reductio Ad Absurdum which is a rhetorical fallacy. I think Athawulf was aware that he wasn't serious about what he was actually posting though.

[Adam Of Angels]

Maybe I gave Jakke too much credit? I took his post as being intentional for the sake of a joke. I understand what athawulf is saying, haha

[Jakke]

It was very much intentional for the sake of joking, and to be frank, I did not think anyone could take it literally. I tried to be as absurd as a I possibly could, but short of screaming about the Soviet Union, that is pretty much what I could muster late in the evening. The people I made fun of, in this case the consvervative crazies with Nugent as their leader, are experts of reductio ad absurdum and the slippery slope-argument, thererfore my post of course reflected that.

Athawulf, glad you like my thread

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

People can bash FOX all they want, but who's number one rated cable news network?

If you support a network that has been shown to be biased and outright lie to it's viewers, then that doesn't say a lot of good about your opinion.

Popularity has no bearing on the credibility of something. The UK has no equivalent really of FOX news and we're all the better for it. That network manipulates America and in my opinion is closer to a terrorist than you describe Obama to be.

[Scar Symmetry]

I ....ing hate Ted Nugent.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

Be black. Be a moderate conservative. Have Hussein as a middle name.
Three strikes and you're out of the wingnuts good graces.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Popularity has no bearing on the credibility of something.

Because if it where so, Justin Bieber would be the greatest thing ever.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

If you support a network that has been shown to be biased and outright lie to it's viewers, then that doesn't say a lot of good about your opinion.

Popularity has no bearing on the credibility of something. The UK has no equivalent really of FOX news and we're all the better for it. That network manipulates America and in my opinion is closer to a terrorist than you describe Obama to be.

Originally Posted by Jakke

Because if it where so, Justin Bieber would be the greatest thing ever.

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh TRENCHLORD

[VBCheeseGrater]

Originally Posted by Hollowway

...because you think it's OK to live in this country and get free healthcare without paying anything. That sounds pretty socialist to me.

That's the one thing OK with people getting something for nothing. just make it across the board free health care, like the Police and Fire Dept. Yep, its socialism, so what?

As a musician, it would have been nice to be able to follow that career path without worrying about being employed solely for the health insurance. The way i see it, socialized health care actually breeds more occupational freedom, because otherwise you're tied down to a 9-5 job in order to keep that healthcare.

As far as forcing folks to buy it, nah, just cut some of the other welfare programs that encourage laziness.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by vbshredder

As far as forcing folks to buy it, nah, just cut some of the other welfare programs that encourage laziness.

So because maybe a few thousand people around the US abuse welfare/foodstamps, we should get rid of them and let all the people who seriously need them for the time being to starve/live in the street?

Ignorant and uncaring comment is ignorant and uncaring.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh TRENCHLORD

Five billion flies can't be wrong; eat shit.

[ghostred7]

Don't like Nugent, don't listen to him (music or rhetoric). He has every right in the world to be as lunatic as he wants without infringing on the rights of others. No need for people to wish him dead & shit.

[Adam Of Angels]

So.. he can wish people dead and call them every terrible thing in the book, and you'll defend his right to do so, but if other people do the same in regards to him, you speak up?

[BIG ND SWEATY]

Originally Posted by Gothic Headhunter

The only real flaw I found in his speech was the gun part. We still have a right to bear arms, but in most states fully automatic assault rifels are banned, and if you need assault rifels to defend yourself, you're a *bad shot*. Other than that, he's just expressing his pollitical views, and last time I checked, that's one of the things you're allowed to do here.

Fixed and i agree with this though, ill still love his music no matter how crazy he gets

[ghostred7]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

So.. he can wish people dead and call them every terrible thing in the book, and you'll defend his right to do so, but if other people do the same in regards to him, you speak up?

I don't support ANYONE having that mindset. One human being shouldn't wish another dead unless they're defending themselves from immenent bodily/lethal harm. In the end....I will always support someone's right to free speech as well as other RIGHTS we, as citizens, are given...no matter if I agree with the stance or not, but won't wish them dead for it.

[ScottyB724]

The 'Nuge went to my high school and was expelled from there as well haha. True story.

And that is my useless contribution to this thread, carry on.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by ghostred7

I don't support ANYONE having that mindset. One human being shouldn't wish another dead unless they're defending themselves from immenent bodily/lethal harm. In the end....I will always support someone's right to free speech as well as other RIGHTS we, as citizens, are given...no matter if I agree with the stance or not, but won't wish them dead for it.

So then, really, if priorities were straight, you would have first spoken out against Ted's ill-wishes on others, then addressed those who spoke poorly of him.

I don't support anybody wishing another person dead, or any form of violence. I haven't said anything terrible about Ted here, I'm just saying that you're accusing others of doing one thing, when they're merely reacting to Ted having done the same thing first.

[BlackMesa]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

So because maybe a few thousand people around the US abuse welfare/foodstamps, we should get rid of them and let all the people who seriously need them for the time being to starve/live in the street?

Ignorant and uncaring comment is ignorant and uncaring.

WRONG. You have absolutely no idea at all just how many people abuse the system. A few thousand? Yea maybe in a small city. Try millions all over the U.S. There are whole generations of families that do this. That's all they do. Why work when the gubment gives me a check, pays for your housing, etc. See it every single day at my job. It makes me sick.