Rick Santorum is out of the race!!!

[areyna21]

Gresham's law is and always has been right as fiat currency will always return to it's original value of nothing. That is the system that we have been on and it simply will not continue to work. We've changed back and forth many times from a gold standard to fiat currency with this being the longest time fiat currency has sustained itself. You may not believe in a gold standard but printing fake money will not work forever. Many economies have collapsed using similar systems but to think we are above it is a bit arrogant. To think we finally found the secret to keeping fiat currency circulating indefinitely is wrong imo. We all have our opinions though and if the majority of the general population wants to keep a central bank and a fiat currency system then that's democracy.

[flint757]

Originally Posted by areyna21

Gresham's law is and always has been right as fiat currency will always return to it's original value of nothing. That is the system that we have been on and it simply will not continue to work. We've changed back and forth many times from a gold standard to fiat currency with this being the longest time fiat currency has sustained itself. You may not believe in a gold standard but printing fake money will not work forever. Many economies have collapsed using similar systems but to think we are above it is a bit arrogant. To think we finally found the secret to keeping fiat currency circulating indefinitely is wrong imo. We all have our opinions though and if the majority of the general population wants to keep a central bank and a fiat currency system then that's democracy.

I see nothing wrong with fiat currency for what we use today especially since money is literally just an exchange process. Money is basically credit, the fact that something needs to back it is only relevant if other countries felt it did which obviously our money works fine elsewhere making that irrelevant. The gold standard is antiquated especially since gold is a very limited resource on our planet to begin with and would only further push a global capitalist system that separates even more rich from the poor. IMO of course....

[SenorDingDong]

[areyna21]

Originally Posted by flint757

I see nothing wrong with fiat currency for what we use today especially since money is literally just an exchange process. Money is basically credit, the fact that something needs to back it is only relevant if other countries felt it did which obviously our money works fine elsewhere making that irrelevant. The gold standard is antiquated especially since gold is a very limited resource on our planet to begin with and would only further push a global capitalist system that separates even more rich from the poor. IMO of course....

I can see that if being used short term fiat currency can benefit and bring a country up from depression. But fake money being used to buy real goods simply because people believe in it won't last. We have yet to be able to succesfully sustain ourselves on either a gold standard or fiat curreny as we are hitting major bumps with this last stint. What we need is some major dicussions, audits, and reassessing of our foriegn policy. The rate we are going right now is not very good so we need to take a very hard look at everything.

[Axayacatl]

Santorum is obviously a closet homosexual who hates himself for it.
He'd save himself and this country so much grief if he would just accepted it.

[ghostred7]

I'm glad to hear he's out of it....I never liked that douche. Dunno who I will vote for....but whoever it is will be the one that talked the most about leaving my 2A rights alone.

[Varcolac]

Originally Posted by MFB

Not entirely accurate.

If he wanted to be really true to his principles, he would've carried this dead presidential campaign-baby to term. In his womb.

I take no credit for the above quote, read it on facebook and thought it peculiarly apt. The pull-out one's still good though.

[Blake1970]

^
lol that pick had me falling out of my chair. Thanks!

[flint757]

Originally Posted by areyna21

I can see that if being used short term fiat currency can benefit and bring a country up from depression. But fake money being used to buy real goods simply because people believe in it won't last. We have yet to be able to succesfully sustain ourselves on either a gold standard or fiat curreny as we are hitting major bumps with this last stint. What we need is some major dicussions, audits, and reassessing of our foriegn policy. The rate we are going right now is not very good so we need to take a very hard look at everything.

Ya I by no means think the fiat system is perfect, but gold doesn't work either. At the moment the only difference between the two is something is backing the money up. In my econ classes and business classes they did a descent job of explaining the system. The only real folly of any system is the need for inflation. I mean what stops all prices from just going down instead of going up. The ratio wouldn't necessarily change.

I get why people think the fiat system will blow up eventually, but it really won't. Most countries take and/or use US currency because there own currency isn't stable. After Saddam was dethroned their money for instance was completely unreliable. It's worth declined consistently, there are places in Africa where as you're walking with the money in your pocket its value changes. So that being said I don't think our currency is really that bad off IMO. The Euro and Canadian money has more worth, but even they had some hiccups.

The only confusing part about fiat money is where the original money comes from. I assume it was from the gold standard era and then they just removed the gold from the equation and people just kept doing what they were doing. In either case if I did $40 worth of work and get $40 and then spend $40 the money exists it just isn't backed by anything on a technical level. Could shit hit the fan? Maybe, but I doubt it. Our economy failing would be just as devastating for the rest of the world as China or Europe's economy failing to us. Hell the tsunami that happened a few months back made computer parts skyrocket, I couldn't afford a new hard drive for the longest time because of it. That need alone gives the money stability. If we have a central medium like money it is just easier for us to use things. We technically went back to a bartering system, we just minimized the way we trade.

To put it most simply, what gives gold any value? Or diamonds or anything else? Paper is just as worthless as rocks IMO. It is simply the acceptance of its use that gives it value no more no less.

[TRENCHLORD]

Originally Posted by Axayacatl

Santorum is obviously a closet homosexual who hates himself for it.
He'd save himself and this country so much grief if he would just accepted it.

Sounds like this might well be YOUR fantasy .

[areyna21]

Originally Posted by flint757

Ya I by no means think the fiat system is perfect, but gold doesn't work either. At the moment the only difference between the two is something is backing the money up. In my econ classes and business classes they did a descent job of explaining the system. The only real folly of any system is the need for inflation. I mean what stops all prices from just going down instead of going up. The ratio wouldn't necessarily change.

I get why people think the fiat system will blow up eventually, but it really won't. Most countries take and/or use US currency because there own currency isn't stable. After Saddam was dethroned their money for instance was completely unreliable. It's worth declined consistently, there are places in Africa where as you're walking with the money in your pocket its value changes. So that being said I don't think our currency is really that bad off IMO. The Euro and Canadian money has more worth, but even they had some hiccups.

The only confusing part about fiat money is where the original money comes from. I assume it was from the gold standard era and then they just removed the gold from the equation and people just kept doing what they were doing. In either case if I did $40 worth of work and get $40 and then spend $40 the money exists it just isn't backed by anything on a technical level. Could shit hit the fan? Maybe, but I doubt it. Our economy failing would be just as devastating for the rest of the world as China or Europe's economy failing to us. Hell the tsunami that happened a few months back made computer parts skyrocket, I couldn't afford a new hard drive for the longest time because of it. That need alone gives the money stability. If we have a central medium like money it is just easier for us to use things. We technically went back to a bartering system, we just minimized the way we trade.

To put it most simply, what gives gold any value? Or diamonds or anything else? Paper is just as worthless as rocks IMO. It is simply the acceptance of its use that gives it value no more no less.

Rocks and Metals are given value because of how we value them for their physical uses but i don't agree just because we value fiat currency that it will remain valuable. Yes it is valuable because we make it so and the world economies using it to trade with helps keep it in circulation. We can do many things with fake money but it can be devalued which has happened before. With gold you could run into the problem of like you said running out and it being stretched so thin it just might create bigger gaps in social classes. Lincoln started a monster when he brought greenbacks and this engraving and printing strategy to the table. Without it we could have been a whole different country from now though. So liberty and free choice came in exchange for control of printing your currency and having a third party decide how much your labor is worth. This is the ultimate step in imperialism and we are the cogs driving it's global machine. Our backs are breaking so that some rich investors can use us to create large reserves of money to influence world trade. Every since then we have stumbled back and forth from the two in some kind of dance to stay on top of the worlds economy.

[Stealthdjentstic]

I think the problem is moreso with fractional reserve banking and crazy leveraging in the US than fiat currency. Look at Canada, even though our economy is very closely tied to the American economy we didnt have that bad a reccession because we regulate more.

[AnarchyDivine88]

I'm happy that he's out of the race, but I'm gonna miss his hilarious gaffes

[ghstofperdition]

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

Sounds like this might well be YOUR fantasy .

Not entirely. It's pretty common knowledge that those that repress homosexuality are usually closet cases themselves and use their homophobia as a shield and front. He has gay sex on the brain far more than even gay men do.

Plus the repub track record for hypocrisy in this subject speaks for itself. (Im of course referring to the 3225535555889 scandals of repubs being caught ....ing other guys) So yeah, Im among others that are positive Mr. Frothy will be coming out of that closet soon. And I'm pretty sure that none of the gay community will want anything to do with him when he does.

[TRENCHLORD]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Not entirely. It's pretty common knowledge that those that repress homosexuality are usually closet cases themselves and use their homophobia as a shield and front. He has gay sex on the brain far more than even gay men do.

Plus the repub track record for hypocrisy in this subject speaks for itself. (Im of course referring to the 3225535555889 scandals of repubs being caught ....ing other guys) So yeah, Im among others that are positive Mr. Frothy will be coming out of that closet soon. And I'm pretty sure that none of the gay community will want anything to do with him when he does.

Well then start wanking, because you'll have quite the wait for these dreams to cum true .

With Rick's track record on sexuality (seeing though he does have a wife and kids, and No sex scandals) and all, I doubt he'll be frequenting the bath houses any time soon.

[Axayacatl]

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

Sounds like this might well be YOUR fantasy .

guilty as charged.

Rick Butt Froth, are you reading this? I'm the man to set you and our country free

btw, wife + kids does not equal straight (it is correlated, but not sure evidence)

and along those same lines, the absence of sex scandals does not directly imply an absence of scandalous sexual behavior.

[flint757]

Originally Posted by areyna21

Rocks and Metals are given value because of how we value them for their physical uses but i don't agree just because we value fiat currency that it will remain valuable. Yes it is valuable because we make it so and the world economies using it to trade with helps keep it in circulation. We can do many things with fake money but it can be devalued which has happened before. With gold you could run into the problem of like you said running out and it being stretched so thin it just might create bigger gaps in social classes. Lincoln started a monster when he brought greenbacks and this engraving and printing strategy to the table. Without it we could have been a whole different country from now though. So liberty and free choice came in exchange for control of printing your currency and having a third party decide how much your labor is worth. This is the ultimate step in imperialism and we are the cogs driving it's global machine. Our backs are breaking so that some rich investors can use us to create large reserves of money to influence world trade. Every since then we have stumbled back and forth from the two in some kind of dance to stay on top of the worlds economy.

I don't know if I entirely agree with you because part of your theory can't even be proven since it isn't how things played out, but you could certainly be correct.

What I do agree with is how ridiculous it is that there are companies and people out there who get paid just to push money from one corner of the room to another, but I could rant about how that is such a waste of time for days.

Now, our financial system though won't "necessarily" (I suppose it could anything is possible) go to shit only because the federal reserve runs a pretty tight ship. When other countries who also use the fiat system crash and burn is when they just start printing money in crazy amounts (either to increase circulation or just give themselves, the "rulers", more money). We actually have a very steady rate of inflation that correlates with the world economy and peoples expectations. The only people who get screwed by inflation is people who work for minimum wage since that doesn't change anymore. Inflation though is a loaded term anyways because not everything's price increases/decreases. They use CPI's and baskets to determine what inflation is at the moment and groceries are a big determinant on inflation (as well as gas). Which when you think about it is funny because the US pays its farmers to NOT grow things.

Also it seemed like you got my point, but then back tracked a bit. My point was gold is for all intents and purposes worthless just like paper, copper, nickel, etc. So there isn't really any grand difference between us using one versus the other except that prices wouldn't fluxuate as much because we can't print more gold. That is not a fiat problem though that is a public expectation problem. We want the stuff we sell to be more expensive, but at the same time we want to buy it cheap.

So I guess the question I should be asking is what do you find to be a good alternative because it doesn't sound like you think gold is much better either.

[EDIT]
Also, the last time removed the gold standard was during the great depression wasn't it because everyone wanted to take there money (gold) out of the banks if I'm not mistaken. (could be history is a rusty subject for me) Which is funny because in either system banks never have everyone's money at hand at all times. They invest it and without those investments we go into recession and/or a deeper recession. Like now people should in fact invest their money, it would help push us out of this slump faster. Keeping your money in your pockets just increases inflation and then eventually your money has a little less value.

[MFB]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Not entirely. It's pretty common knowledge that those that repress homosexuality are usually closet cases themselves and use their homophobia as a shield and front. He has gay sex on the brain far more than even gay men do.

Please see point #1 - 6 Bullshit Facts About Psychology That Everyone Believes | Cracked.com

There's obviously more studies that show stuff like that, but at this point in time the idea that those who repress gay tendencies so much are themselves gay is basically a giant parody of itself and rather...silly for lack of better word

[TRENCHLORD]

I just find it so hypocritacal for homosexuals and transgenders who are always whining about acceptance for who they are, to be so quick to denounce some one else's clear preference.

We fellow humans are supposed to accept you at face value and for who you claim to be, yet you won't accept some body else's proclaimation of hetrosexuality without calling them a liar.

That's not just hypocracy, that's a downright lack of common respect and basic human decency.

It shouldn't matter whether or not it's a family member, friend, fellow forumite, or a politician a million miles away.
If a person claims to be hetro, you should leave it at that, if a person claims to be gay or trans-gender, you should leave it at that.
Where I come from that's just common respect.

[flint757]

Originally Posted by MFB

Please see point #1 - 6 Bullshit Facts About Psychology That Everyone Believes | Cracked.com

There's obviously more studies that show stuff like that, but at this point in time the idea that those who repress gay tendencies so much are themselves gay is basically a giant parody of itself and rather...silly for lack of better word

damn you and your link to cracked.com I've spent the last 50 minutes reading articles.

[Axayacatl]

Originally Posted by TRENCHLORD

I just find it so hypocritacal for homosexuals and transgenders who are always whining about acceptance for who they are, to be so quick to denounce some one else's clear preference.

We fellow humans are supposed to accept you at face value and for who you claim to be, yet you won't accept some body else's proclaimation of hetrosexuality without calling them a liar.

That's not just hypocracy, that's a downright lack of common respect and basic human decency.

It shouldn't matter whether or not it's a family member, friend, fellow forumite, or a politician a million miles away.
If a person claims to be hetro, you should leave it at that, if a person claims to be gay or trans-gender, you should leave it at that.
Where I come from that's just common respect.

I cannot disagree with any of this since it is in the same spirit of the basic argument running along this entire thread (other than the monetary policy bit). And obviously nobody here gives a rat's ass as to whether Prick is actually straight or not. That is a private issue between him, his wife, his kids, and his gay lovers.

The basic point is that nobody would bring his sexuality up if it weren't for his active hatred and activism against others with a different preference. He reminds many of that one preacher who used to spew hatred about gays and drugs from the pulpit. This went on until finally his gay prostitute saw him on TV while at the gym and denounced to the press that they would take meth and have sex together. Does anybody here remember that incident?

Is this going to happen with Santorum? Humor aside, most likely it won't. But to my mind there is a tremendous difference between idle (and sometimes humorous) conjectures about someone's sexual orientation on the one hand, and equating homosexuality to adultery, bestiality and incest on the other.

The bottom line: his sexual orientation is NOT A FACT and cannot be verified from the historical record. His active hatred of gays etc IS A FACT and to my mind, unacceptable in our society based around 'common respect and basic human decency' as you put it.

[r3tr0sp3ct1v3]

My pr0nz is finally safe





Now who will Dave Mustaine vote for? Himself?

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Originally Posted by r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Now who will Dave Mustaine vote for? Himself?

Dave Mustaine 2012. Will make sure every African woman has a plug!

[Waelstrum]

I don't think that he's gay. I'd like him to be,* because then he'd be completely discredited like Ted Haggard. Also, it would be a little bit like that episode of The Twilight Zone when the racist turned black and was sent into the Jim Crow deep south, then turned into a jew in Nazi Germany.


*Not for personal reasons.

[troyguitar]

Too bad, he made for some fun news stories. Romney is rather boring in comparison.