Transgender 'Miss Universe; Canada' Finalist Disqualified

[JamesM]

@Groph -- I've actually watched one of the surgeries. It's astounding. The one I saw (they showed it after healing) actually looked like a damn vag!


I'm not going to run in circles here. If it works down there, I'd definitely smang it. She's gorgeous! Rules are rules though.

[Xaios]

Good that she had it done when she did. I have a buddy who's dad got a sex change later in life and became a woman. Needless to say, being the biological son of "two mommies" really threw him for a mental loop. He was really sensitive about that particular conversation topic, so we knew NOT to bring it up, or even dare poke fun at it.

[ghstofperdition]

I agree with Xaios. It's much easier when you get it all done earlier in life. Less crap thrown at you for it. Not a day goes by that I don't wish I had just pursued this when I first discovered it at age 14 and not repress the .... out of it up until a few months ago...

[Loomer]

Regardless if she was born male or not, the way she looks nowadays:

I would. I abso-....in'-lutely would.

[ghstofperdition]

^ I agree. I would consider myself a very lucky girl if I woke up next to her everyday...

[CapenCyber]

It'd be good for everyone to realise just how similar men and women are physically. I'd say the mental differences are by far the biggest between genders, every physical difference has a common embryological origin.

If you have some time, go and look at the embryology of Male vs Female genitalia, I'd imagine it'd be very uncomfortable read for people who refuse to acknowledge Trans people as their personally identified gender to realise that for instance the clitoris is essentially a small penis without a urethra.

[Waelstrum]

^ If you think about it, all biological men are trans to a certain degree, because everyone starts off as female in the womb. I remember hearing that fact in biology in grade 9 and being horrified (I was going through a homophobic phase).

[CapenCyber]

Oh absolutely, I guess that makes more sense since men have the "blueprints" for female anatomy.

It is of course also possible to be XY and still appear outwardly female, would someone like that be able to compete? There really is no black and white...

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Hate to say it..but rules are rules..they are there for as reason. Rules state a biological female and she, in fact, is not. To be very technical about it, she's still a man, she's not female at all. So they have to be realistic..it's unfair for a man to win a beauty competition for women.

[ilyti]

^ Exactly. I figure it would be even more pioneering to start a beauty pageant exclusively for trans people.

[ghstofperdition]

Many transwomen avoid pagaents to begin with since they don't want to be labeled as drag queens (and want to avoid being outed publicly like what we saw here), so I was kinda "whaaaa...." when I saw this headline tbvh. Not that I personally have anything against drag queens (love ya Drak! ) but typically drag queens are guys that dress as chicks just for entertainment and art value. For trans people, it's much more serious than that. That's not to say that there aren't transpeople that also do drag for fun, but I've yet to meet or hear of anyone that does both. (If you know of any Drak, I'd love to read up on 'em)

I can see where she'd want to participate in the contest, since transsexuals are on the polar opposite of cispeople on the gender binary, and her mind is completely that of a female. I feel people get to hung up on "OMG she haz peN0rZ!!!!" and completely disregard the transperson's personality entirely; which to me is retarded. If she had a cyst on her ass, nobody'd be crying "Omg that's a dude!". To transsexual women, that's all a penis is; an unwanted growth between their legs. So as far as she is concerned (and I'm in 100% agreement with this), she is just a girl that had a birth defect removed. In that perspective, yeah I think it's shitty that she couldn't compete.

I'll side with Drak on the fact that no matter how shitty the rules are, they were still in place and she knew that she'd be disqualified if she was outed. She took a gamble and the dice came up as snake eyes. If I was her, I'd be spending less time trying to fight the disqualification, and more time fighting the rules in the rulebook.

[matt397]

I don't see what everyone is up in arms about, It's a MISS Universe pageant. I completely understand that this person felt like a woman his/her whole life. I get that physically as of right now with the exception of her XY chromosome set, she is a woman. But she entered in a contest with rules that are pretty clear about being born a female, which by definition she is not.
By all means, appeal the rules, I hope for her sake she makes a difference and has them changed.

IMO I think beauty pagents are dispicable, boring and exemplify everything that is wrong with this world. I could care less what everyone else thinks is to be considered as beautiful or pretty or whatever. Most, if not all, the women I've seen in pageants or runway super models, IMO are kinda boring an plain. As far as the person in question, my opinion stays the same, kinda boring looking.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Many transwomen avoid pagaents to begin with since they don't want to be labeled as drag queens (and want to avoid being outed publicly like what we saw here), so I was kinda "whaaaa...." when I saw this headline tbvh. Not that I personally have anything against drag queens (love ya Drak! ) but typically drag queens are guys that dress as chicks just for entertainment and art value. For trans people, it's much more serious than that. That's not to say that there aren't transpeople that also do drag for fun, but I've yet to meet or hear of anyone that does both. (If you know of any Drak, I'd love to read up on 'em)

I can see where she'd want to participate in the contest, since transsexuals are on the polar opposite of cispeople on the gender binary, and her mind is completely that of a female. I feel people get to hung up on "OMG she haz peN0rZ!!!!" and completely disregard the transperson's personality entirely; which to me is retarded. If she had a cyst on her ass, nobody'd be crying "Omg that's a dude!". To transsexual women, that's all a penis is; an unwanted growth between their legs. So as far as she is concerned (and I'm in 100% agreement with this), she is just a girl that had a birth defect removed. In that perspective, yeah I think it's shitty that she couldn't compete.

I'll side with Drak on the fact that no matter how shitty the rules are, they were still in place and she knew that she'd be disqualified if she was outed. She took a gamble and the dice came up as snake eyes. If I was her, I'd be spending less time trying to fight the disqualification, and more time fighting the rules in the rulebook.

Many trans people were drag queens first..AND there are people who are in the middle. Sonique, Glamorous Monique and a couple others started as drag queens and are actually going through surgery.

Secondly, I have to disagree with trans women being "women with a growth".. chromosomes don't lie. Despite how you feel..you are what you are on that level. Even with surgery she is still not a biological woman..she is still a man. She is a man competing in a woman's competition. If a biological woman competed in a trans beauty pageant (and there are many), they'd have a shit fit..especially if she won. She's not trans..just like trans technically are not women.

[Waelstrum]

^ I think that was more a metaphor than meant to be taken literally.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by Waelstrum

^ I think that was more a metaphor than meant to be taken literally.

Obviously. My point is there's a lot more to it, and that even though one may feel that way, unfortunately the reality is they, from a physical perspective, are not female..so a trans woman is unable to compete in a competition for women

[The Uncreator]

If a guy grows up feeling his entire life he should be a woman, that his brain is wired that way and spends the money on cosmetic and hormonal treatment, he ends up being a woman without reproductive capabilities basically.

From my standpoint it doesn't really matter, I think in this day and age we can be mature enough to understand and comprehend these decisions. A friend of mine who is a woman actually wants to have the opposite done, and thats the way she has felt her entire life.

Rules are rules, I get it, but I think it just serves as a basis for showing us that are ideals and perceptions are do in for a good change over.

Not that society will do it, because, for the most part, not enough of us heed warnings or signs and do anything.

[ghstofperdition]

I can see your point Drak (and I stand completely corrected) and while I don't agree 100% you have quite a few good points in there. Personally I just don't see how it matters who has/doesn't have whatever between their legs to be in a beauty contest where they are being judged with that area always covered. To me, all that should matter is that you're beautiful.
I still agree that rules are rules and to act surprised when you get busted is dumb.
Also I kid you not, but just about every genuine transsexual I've spoken with on trans forums looks at their penis as either an over-extended clitoris (which isn't far from the truth tbvh) or some kind of weird growth that needs to be removed. I'm not that far on the trans-scale ( my gender is something like 80% female, 20% male ) and while I identify as female, I see no reason as of right now to lop it off. So I identify as a transgenderist/not a transsexual.

I do agree that beauty contests are dumb though since it objectifies the wrong kind of beauty. Looks are superficial and fleeting, and the real beauty of a person lies within.

[in-pursuit]

they can't let them compete because if straight men don't feel safe jerking off while looking at pictures of the contestants, then the entire thing serves no real purpose. FYI, I would probably take her out to dinner and see where it goes from there

[The Reverend]

I'd like to formally welcome her to the womanhood she's always felt internally by immediately objectifying her. 1,2, 3, and...

I'd do disgusting things with her in bed. I've never had doubts or issues with my sexuality, but as far as I'm concerned, she's a woman, and a damn good-looking one at that.

OTT, the rules were clear. I don't think the committee looked at as if her transformation was an issue, I think it was more along the lines of her dishonesty automatically disqualifying her. If she wanted to enter, she should've fought to repeal that rule, or at least have it modified.

[ghstofperdition]

Originally Posted by in-pursuit

they can't let them compete because if straight men don't feel safe jerking off while looking at pictures of the contestants, then the entire thing serves no real purpose.

And there's where the heart of the issue comes in. It's an underlying case of perceived homophobia.

It's like the Line Trap memes where everyone is afraid to say Bailey-Jay Granger looks hot because then people would think you're gay. Beauty is beauty and if you like a hot girl, then it shouldn't matter what's between her legs.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

And there's where the heart of the issue comes in. It's an underlying case of perceived homophobia.

It's like the Line Trap memes where everyone is afraid to say Bailey-Jay Granger looks hot because then people would think you're gay. Beauty is beauty and if you like a hot girl, then it shouldn't matter what's between her legs.

Meh...If I thought a guy was hot..him being a biological woman and having a vagina would be an immediate disqualifier. I like men..actual men..with male parts. Just like a hetero man likes a woman..an actual woman..with woman parts. What's between their legs or what they really are IS a factor for many people.

[ghstofperdition]

Okay, I go with you on that to a certain point. But what if said transman was post-op and had one. How would you feel then?

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Okay, I go with you on that to a certain point. But what if said transman was post-op and had one. How would you feel then?

Then I'd still say no..technically she isn't a man..she just looks like one

[xvultures]

Am I the only one who isn't grossed out by this? Or think it's kind of ridiculous she's filing a lawsuit? The rules are there and he/she entered knowing that he/she didn't qualify for it? Besides that, who's to say he/she would even be the winner? :P

Instead of getting on the lawsuit bandwagon that everyone seems to get on these days. Why not start a Pageant for transgendered people, and bring awareness and tolerance up for people who went through what he/she went through. To maybe open up the eyes or change the minds of people like me, who are completely disgusted with the whole idea of it. Just saiyan.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by xvultures

Am I the only one who isn't grossed out by this? Or think it's kind of ridiculous she's filing a lawsuit? The rules are there and he/she entered knowing that he/she didn't qualify for it? Besides that, who's to say he/she would even be the winner? :P

Instead of getting on the lawsuit bandwagon that everyone seems to get on these days. Why not start a Pageant for transgendered people, and bring awareness and tolerance up for people who went through what he/she went through. To maybe open up the eyes or change the minds of people like me, who are completely disgusted with the whole idea of it. Just saiyan.

There are trans pageants..lots of them