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Unread 01-13-2012, 12:12 AM   #1
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Good Student Suspended for Being a Good Student

An interesting take on a case, where a student does the right thing. Can`t say I agree with the schoolboard and the dumbasses that handled this situation:

Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1192791.html...

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Unread 01-13-2012, 12:17 AM   #2
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Highscools never fail to amuse me with their idiotic policies.

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Unread 01-13-2012, 12:22 AM   #3
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High school teachers just ....ing piss me off. The vast majority of them are absolute ....ing morons. You can tell as soon as you switch out to college/university that high school teachers just don't care about students, don't care for their job, are idiots and don't want to be there.

Not all, just most
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Unread 01-13-2012, 09:58 AM   #4
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Stupid. Just plain stupid.

To be fair to the teachers (in general, not in this specific case) the system does handicap their ability to teach quite a bit and the restrictions placed on failing or punishing a kid are just insane.
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Unread 01-13-2012, 12:19 PM   #5
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Unread 01-14-2012, 12:31 AM   #6
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This perfectly illustrates why our educational system is in such a downward spiral: All of the school administrators are actually special-ed graduates.
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Unread 01-14-2012, 09:49 AM   #7
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While I am seriously sceptical about anything that HowTheWorldWorks and/or the Huffington Post says, this seems like a legit reporting.

And it's damn shameful
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Unread 01-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #8
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Role model behaviors like this kid's aren't praised nowadays.We rely solely in punishment,or mindless hypocritical formalism.Fear has gone a long way into defeating the virtue of honesty.

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Unread 01-15-2012, 05:45 PM   #9
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I actually remember thinking about this scenario back in High School, and hoping that it would never happen. My school had a zero-tolerance policy (like most do), and I always thought it was asinine. It's sad that the same people who lament society's moral decay are themselves contributing to it by punishing virtue.

On a side note, I can't normally stand HowTheWorldWorks' videos, but he does put out a really good one once in awhile. Thanks for sharing it (though I had already seen it pop up in my subbox).
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Unread 01-15-2012, 07:25 PM   #10
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This relates to a personal story of mine, got into a fight that I did not start, didn't even hit back, but because the school had a no tolerance policy I had to withdraw from the school.

Complete bullshit.

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Unread 01-15-2012, 08:25 PM   #11
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My high school has the same policy. If you have a weapon in school, you are expelled, no exceptions. The policy basically encourages students to conceal a weapon because they can't do the right thing. It's just idiotic.
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Unread 01-15-2012, 09:21 PM   #12
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Guys this is a MIDDLE school. Not a highschool.
But yes, this is one of the stupidest cases I've seen.
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Unread 01-15-2012, 09:37 PM   #13
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what the hell is the matter with you people?

The kid brought a weapon to school. It doesn't matter if he knew it or not. Turning in the weapon was responsible, but he'll suffer the consequences for breaking the law/rules.

It doesn't matter if he's a good student or not, there are rules that should never be broken, and this is one of them.

There's nothing wrong with this punishment, 4 days ISS is nothing. He's lucky they didn't suspend or expell him.
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Unread 01-15-2012, 11:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhakan View Post
My high school has the same policy. If you have a weapon in school, you are expelled, no exceptions. The policy basically encourages students to conceal a weapon because they can't do the right thing. It's just idiotic.
When I was in the 10th grade, I accidentally brought a fixed blade knife to school for a couple of weeks straight because on a previous weekend I used my (camouflage) school backpack to carry some survival gear when deer hunting. When I discovered the knife, I told no one about it just because I didn't want to get expelled.... again. I had already been expelled before because I always fought back when being bullied (there's no right to self defense in school). I didn't need to be expelled just because of a complete accident. I had been looking everywhere for that knife too.
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Unread 01-15-2012, 11:43 PM   #15
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To answer the questions that I received from my neg-rep:

There are rules. The rules say, "No weapons of any kind on school property".

A child unwittingly breaks the rules, and turns in the knife. No harm done? Right?

Well, that child still broke a very serious rule. Now, do you treat the child equally, or do you use special treatment? Because this is a good student. Well, not every teacher knows the same students, they're not going to just let the kid go, "Thanks for not stabbing anyone, and turning this in."

No. You have to treat them the same. Like someone said, their school (mine included, and I know it's pretty much the same for other schools) is an automatic suspension/expulsion from the school.

The fact that he was given in school suspension, shows the school was lenient with him.

It's not failed or stupid logic, it's common sense.

And If I was in the same situation, I'd be mad, but I'd accept the punishment for coming to school with a knife. It's a ....ing knife, people. Not a commemorative bat from last night's ball game.

Think of the "What If"s. If he'd found it, and it was taken by another child and used to harm another. How fast do you think that kid will rat out the first for bringing it in the first place. Welp there's a charge for accessory to assault. But he's a good kid, so they'll let him go, right?

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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:03 AM   #16
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Where does punishing good deeds meet the criteria of common sense?

For that matter, since we're bandying about hypothetical situations, what's to stop kids from planting shit on other kids? If you can't come forward about it due to fear of punishment, you're forcing a kid to make a conscious bad decision because it's actually more rewarding.

Also, I went to a big high school, and if you think principals and school cops don't know who's a bad kid, you didn't get in trouble enough.

There's no inherent morality to rules in the first place. If the kid broke the rules, they should've rewrote those bitches to say "extenuating circumstances will be considered at the school's discretion," instead of ....ing the kid over for something so lame. What a great message to send: Look, kids, if you see something wrong, or feel that you may need to go to an adult about something, keep you mouth closed, because you're liable to be suspended or expelled.

Lastly, Sicarius, I don't know about Conroe ISD, but in Tomball, ISS wasn't far removed from juvenile detention centers I've been too.
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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:18 AM   #17
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This reminds my of when arseholes sue people who break their ribs doing CPR on them. Normally breaking ribs is bad, but there are some circumstances when it is ok.

Sicarius, if you like your hypotheticals, how would you punish a kid who manages to snatch a knife away from an aggressor in order to prevent injury to themselves and others? Or if a kid notices a knife just lying around and hands it in? (In that hypothetical I guess it could be argued that the kid should report where the knife is and leave it there, where anyone could pick it up.)
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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:19 AM   #18
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Not every school's ISS program is the same. Mine was nothing like a Juvie system when I was in middle school. It was just a room with the kids all together at separate desks doing their class work.

Then again I wasn't a big enough delinquent to be sent to Juvie, so maybe that's what Juvie is. I doubt it, highly, but whatever.

He broke a rule, and is going with the consequences. It's as simple as that.

In this kind of a circumstance, what he did was right (to turn it in), and he's going to go through with the consequences of bringing a knife to school.

It's like it is in real life. You are responsible for what is in your possession, be it unwitting or not.

As an example: Just because you didn't know an illegal substance or a gun was in your car or bag, doesn't make you any more innocent just because you weren't aware of it. It's up to you to make sure you don't have those things.

Ignorance of the law, or of unlawful items in your possession does not exempt you from the consequences of breaking that law (law as an interchangeable here for rules).

It's that simple.

If he'd brought a gun to school on accident, would you all be saying the exact same thing?
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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waelstrum View Post
This reminds my of when arseholes sue people who break their ribs doing CPR on them. Normally breaking ribs is bad, but there are some circumstances when it is ok.

Sicarius, if you like your hypotheticals, how would you punish a kid who manages to snatch a knife away from an aggressor in order to prevent injury to themselves and others? Or if a kid notices a knife just lying around and hands it in? (In that hypothetical I guess it could be argued that the kid should report where the knife is and leave it there, where anyone could pick it up.)
It's all about perception. Did a teacher witness the child taking it away to try to protect other students? Or did they walk up to the incident and saw just saw them with it?

Does it matter what the actual facts are, or what the kids will say happened (be it a lie, to protect themselves from punishment, or the bully who had the weapon in the first place, or the truth)?

In the second case, I'd keep an eye on it, and tell someone to get a teacher, and let them handle it. I'm not touching it to incriminate myself, but I'm not going to leave it unattended.

Granted this is coming from a 25 year old adult, who's had enough life experiences to know what to do. So take it with a grain of salt if need be.

See, the main problem with the 2nd hypothetical is that this isn't something that was just found laying around that could have been anyone's. It was in this child's possession, and he turned it in.

He isn't being punished for good behaviour (turning in the knife) He's being punished for bad (bringing a knife to school).
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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:37 AM   #20
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That's just straight wrong. I understand that there is a system to heed to, but god dammit we're human aren't we? Show some compassion.

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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:41 AM   #21
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I'm sure glad they caught him.
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Unread 01-16-2012, 12:44 AM   #22
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So what he should have done is leave it somewhere, and report that he found it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicarius View Post
It's like it is in real life. You are responsible for what is in your possession, be it unwitting or not.

As an example: Just because you didn't know an illegal substance or a gun was in your car or bag, doesn't make you any more innocent just because you weren't aware of it. It's up to you to make sure you don't have those things.

Ignorance of the law, or of unlawful items in your possession does not exempt you from the consequences of breaking that law (law as an interchangeable here for rules).
In the original scenario the knife was not put their by him at all, nor his aunt who gave him the bag. So in your scenario with a gun in a car; if your aunt gave you a car, which you later discovered had a gun in the glove box, would you be okay with being sent to prison for possession of a gun without a license* when you hand in the mystery gun to the police?


*Or whatever crime you'd be committing.
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Unread 01-16-2012, 01:13 AM   #23
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I understand that he broke the rules, I just don't think it's rational to punish someone for doing what they think is right. It really sets a horrible precedent. It's like that thing in China where you can be sued for helping someone. I remember that thread where a woman got stabbed at least a dozen times, and no one helps, and you have to wonder about this idea of being punished or liable for trying to do the right thing.

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Unread 01-16-2012, 01:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waelstrum View Post
So what he should have done is leave it somewhere, and report that he found it?




In the original scenario the knife was not put their by him at all, nor his aunt who gave him the bag. So in your scenario with a gun in a car; if your aunt gave you a car, which you later discovered had a gun in the glove box, would you be okay with being sent to prison for possession of a gun without a license* when you hand in the mystery gun to the police?


*Or whatever crime you'd be committing.
Sure, what ever will make what I'm saying sink in better for you.

This isn't a scenario, or a hypothetical situation, it's not relevant who put the knife in the bag.

A child brought a knife to school, and is being punished for doing so. He is given a more lenient punishment because he came forth and told them what he found.

He is not being punished for turning himself in, that's idiotic. He is getting punished for having the knife.

It really is that simple, but everyone here seems to think that having the knife itself is the irrelevant information, and seems to only think a good deed is being punished, when it isn't at all.

They even say that each incident is looked at, and there is no zero tolerance policy. So what he is getting is actually pretty nice, instead of being expelled and having to change schools.

Please don't bring up the Woman from China, we'll start another socio-centric tirade I don't have the energy to contend with.
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Unread 01-16-2012, 01:39 AM   #25
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A kid gets in trouble for a bullshit reason.

A ton of people get their high school diplomas and they can't even spell words correctly.

Self-defense is not permitted in schools.

What the .... kind of racket are you guys running?
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