US Marines Urinate on dead Taliban Soldiers

[Jontain]

I am sure we have all heard of the story hitting the press today.

BBC News - Taliban denounce 'US Marines body desecration' video

We should be better than this in the West, alot of these Taliban fighters will fight because of brainwashing from an early age by religeon. Its not my place to say they are wrong but If we expect to get these people to see reason they should be treated as equal to anyone from the West, not in this such a disgraceful way.

Also understand there are strong feelings on both sides of this conflict, I am not saying either side is without blame but acts like this will never help to bring piece.

Irresponsible actions beyond belief from these Marines, I wont link the video as I am sure you can find it to watch if you wish.

Discuss.

[Iamasingularity]

I watched it on BBC early this morning, and man I was at a loss for words.
I will not tolerate such acts when the US focuses its attention on asia.

[Jontain]

I would not expect such acts from any Armed force from any country. These are suppose to be well trained men representing their country, I know in this case it may be down to these individuals but its really not on imo.

[Iamasingularity]

Originally Posted by Jontain

I would not expect such acts from any Armed force from any country. These are suppose to be well trained men representing their country, I know in this case it may be down to these individuals but its really not on imo.

You know war used to be a respectful thing. You had 2 sides at war, and when it was night/time to call it a day they would meet up and chill out together, bid farewell and get back to their posts to fight each other the next day. When people died, they would give respect to the body/dying. They died in a honourable way. Not by getting bombed/blasted by mines.

[Jontain]

Indeed, the lack of honour most people live by today is disgraceful.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by Iamasingularity

You know war used to be a respectful thing. You had 2 sides at war, and when it was night/time to call it a day they would meet up and chill out together, bid farewell and get back to their posts to fight each other the next day. When people died, they would give respect to the body/dying. They died in a honourable way. Not by getting bombed/blasted by mines.

Hmm, war has never been honourable, already in the middle ages, soldiers focused on terrorizing the civilians, because through civilians, you get to the enemy.
Is it more honourable to be shredded to pieces by a grape-shot than to step on a mine? Get an arrow in your gut rather than a bullet?
And have you heard about the once oh-so-popular scorched earth tactic? That is indeed a very honourable way conduct...
History has a way of whitewashing events, and we tend to forget that, for example, biological warfare was invented during the roman empire and soldiers had the nastiest ways of lighting each other on fire or creative ways of mutilation long before the invention of black powder.

Have you heard about the siege of Caffa on the Chrimean Peninsula in 1347? That is were the black death epidemic of Europe started, claiming about 45% of everyone in Europe.
It came to pass that the mongols were besiegeing the city, when mongols started to die. We now know that the black plague in endemic to asia, to be precise China, were the mongols come from. So what did the mongols do? They loaded their siege engines with the bodies and fired them over the walls, and then left.
They did no longer care about taking the city, they just wanted to kill anyone within, and they used biological warfare to do it, does that sound honourable to you?
Mutiliating dead enemy soldiers (and leave them out for the enemy to find) was a common way of draining the morale of an enemy fighting force. For example, the infamous head on a spike.
Raining liquid fire upon your enemy, is that honourable? How is lighting someone with an unquenchable fire showing respect for your enemy?

No, the brutality of war has not increased, but we have gotten more and more efficient with killing each other. Man did not become a monster as soon as we had black powder, or knew how to make an atomic bomb. There has always been people willing to do horrible things to each other, and no amount of invention is ever going to accelerate, or satiate, that drive.
Remember, there were no Geneva-convention in the olden days.



As for the thread, disgraceful behavior by that marine. In a way, I can see why he did it, but that is no excuse.

[Randy]

Barbaric.

[Blake1970]

How is this as bad as a U.S. soldier being hanged and dragged through the streets on display?? I'm not condoning their actions, but seriously?? The bodies they are pissing on if alive would kill them in a heartbeat and probably do much worse. This is just my opinion.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Blake1970

How is this as bad as a U.S. soldier being hanged and dragged through the streets on display??

When did somebody say it was and since when do two wrongs make a right?

[Blake1970]

Originally Posted by Randy

When did somebody say it was and since when do two wrongs make a right?

You are absolutely correct it does not make it right. I’m not in their shoes so I don’t know what it’s like being shot at and someone wanting to kill me. War is not pretty and it never has been. I guess they can be politically correct and take the high road to make the whole world feel warm and fuzzy, but they were probably pissed off (no pun intended).

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by Blake1970

but they were probably pissed off (no pun intended).

It was pretty funny though


Yeah... I'm a horrible human being occasionally..

[USMarine75]

Originally Posted by Jakke

Hmm, war has never been honourable, already in the middle ages, soldiers focused on terrorizing the civilians, because through civilians, you get to the enemy.
Is it more honourable to be shredded to pieces by a grape-shot than to step on a mine? Get an arrow in your gut rather than a bullet?
And have you heard about the once oh-so-popular scorched earth tactic? That is indeed a very honourable way conduct...
History has a way of whitewashing events, and we tend to forget that, for example, biological warfare was invented during the roman empire and soldiers had the nastiest ways of lighting each other on fire or creative ways of mutilation long before the invention of black powder.

Have you heard about the siege of Caffa on the Chrimean Peninsula in 1347? That is were the black death epidemic of Europe started, claiming about 45% of everyone in Europe.
It came to pass that the mongols were besiegeing the city, when mongols started to die. We now know that the black plague in endemic to asia, to be precise China, were the mongols come from. So what did the mongols do? They loaded their siege engines with the bodies and fired them over the walls, and then left.
They did no longer care about taking the city, they just wanted to kill anyone within, and they used biological warfare to do it, does that sound honourable to you?
Mutiliating dead enemy soldiers (and leave them out for the enemy to find) was a common way of draining the morale of an enemy fighting force. For example, the infamous head on a spike.
Raining liquid fire upon your enemy, is that honourable? How is lighting someone with an unquenchable fire showing respect for your enemy?

No, the brutality of war has not increased, but we have gotten more and more efficient with killing each other. Man did not become a monster as soon as we had black powder, or knew how to make an atomic bomb. There has always been people willing to do horrible things to each other, and no amount of invention is ever going to accelerate, or satiate, that drive.
Remember, there were no Geneva-convention in the olden days.



As for the thread, disgraceful behavior by that marine. In a way, I can see why he did it, but that is no excuse.

^ Thank you for saving me a lot of typing!

Sorry Iamasingularity... but... [cough]... Bataan... [cough].



Bataan Death March - A Survivor's Story: The Bataan Death March

Bataan Death March - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The UK... British war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Everyone else... List of war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This idea that war is romantic and clean and actually follows some set of rules is ridiculous... You may try as a whole to adhere to the Laws of War/Hague/Geneva etc... but you will never control 100% of the actions down to the level of the individual. There will always be that F'ing 10% on both sides of any conflict...

(e.g. There's a reason why the US beat the British during the American Revolution... because we failed to follow the gentlemanly rules of war that Wellington adhered to.)

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Blake1970

but they were probably pissed off (no pun intended).

Okay, so the fact that they KILLED them wasn't enough to quench that?

[Randy]

And all "let's try to be humane" stuff aside, doing something like this and letting it get put on video to be circulated is a great way to embolden the enemy.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by USMarine75

This idea that war is romantic and clean and actually follows some set of rules is ridiculous... You may try as a whole to adhere to the Laws of War/Hague/Geneva etc... but you will never control 100% of the actions down to the level of the individual. There will always be that F'ing 10% on both sides of any conflict...

The only "gentlemanly" occurance I have heard of during a war was the christmas truce of 1914. And that only happened because there were close to zero animosity between combatants, they really did not hate each other, plainly spoken. Their commanding officers did not like it however

[USMarine75]

Just wanted to add in case it's not obvious how I feel...

This was ....ing deplorable and they'd receive a session of wall-to-wall counseling if any of my Marines did something like that. That's the least that would happen... believe me Marines do NOT allow fellow Marines to shit on 236 years of honor, courage, and commitment. (i.e. think child rapist in prison)

[Jontain]

Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should live and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku? that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.

As with everything it is down to the individual's morals, these soliders should be ashamed of their actions.

I wonder if the opinion would be the same if this was a video of Taliban fighters urinating on dead US marines, how would that make you feel if a member of your family was killed and treated in this way? Reguardless of sides and who is right this is just plain wrong. Just because they are our troops doesnt mean they should be cleared to act in this way, its a disgrace to the US Army and everything they stand for.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by Jontain

Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should lve and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku, that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.

You know that the samurai was ruthless thugs in the beginning, right? It was first when they feudal lord had come in power that they needed to justify their existance (than being mere thugs), so they started to do poetry, invented a code of honour... But it was born out of nescessity, not a sense of honour.
They were most of all taxfarmers, and I'll leave it to you to imagine if they extended their "honour" towards the peasants they extracted taxes from...

[vampiregenocide]

It's things like this that kinda make my sympathise with the Taliban and groups like them. Don't get me wrong, they're ....ing insane barbarians, but I feel like that's mostly because we made them that way and if we were more concious about our actions then maybe things might be better. It's like fuelling the fire. The Taliban use incidents like this to further strengthen the image of the reckless Western world, and sign up new recruits. To allow things like this to happen is counter-productive, and those responsible need to be punished not just because of the political issues it could raise, but purely because of the offence it causes. If you treat your enemy with respect, then perhaps they will start to wonder whether they're on the right side.

[jymellis]

i dont condone their actions, but war is ugly. when you give someone a gun, and the power to kill. alot of "human" feelings are lost. as for the respectful war? one that sticks out in my head is the U.s. governement handing out disease infected blankets and clothing to native american refugees and survivors of "war".

[USMarine75]

Originally Posted by Jakke

The only "gentlemanly" occurance I have heard of during a war was the christmas truce of 1914. And that only happened because there were close to zero animosity between combatants, they really did not hate each other, plainly spoken. Their commanding officers did not like it however

Haha yeah... crazy. During Korea it was something like 40 below with windchill one night up by the Chosin Reservoir... The US Marines lit fires in trash barrels (usually against orders... fire discipline in effect at night) to try and survive the night. Guns were frozen and wouldn't fire anyways. The Chinese came out of the mountains and stood next to the Marines to get warm lol. They went back up into the mountains later and the next day went back to fighting.

[Iamasingularity]

I don`t know what to say...
You guys interpreted my comments as if I was unaware of previous wars/genocide/horrific acts humans have done over the course of history. Thanks for the interesting read, but what I wanted to point out that we all are the same, humans. We all have families, we all have homes, we all have so much in common yet we lack the depth to realize that we are all humans, the ones supposed to be civil and understanding (:/) So I do agree that all wars (most) have never been worth dying for, but that does not justify the disrespect
happening here. Moveing on....

[decypher]

If you begin to justify one war crime with another, you can just as well go the whole way and disregard human rights entirely...

I'm just glad that the viral internet character makes videos like this go around the world within a few hours.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by Iamasingularity

I don`t know what to say...
You guys interpreted my comments as if I was unaware of previous wars/genocide/horrific acts humans have done over the course of history. Thanks for the interesting read, but what I wanted to point out that we all are the same, humans. We all have families, we all have homes, we all have so much in common yet we lack the depth to realize that we are all humans, the ones supposed to be civil and understanding (:/) So I do agree that all wars (most) have never been worth dying for, but that does not justify the disrespect
happening here. Moveing on....

Yes, I'm sorry but you made a sweeping generalization (people fighting yesterday had honour), if people then show that it was not a very well thought out statement, I think it's relevant.

I agree with the sentiment, but not the presentation.

[USMarine75]

Originally Posted by Jontain

Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should live and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku? that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.

Huh? Ever heard of Bataan? Check several posts above.

Originally Posted by Jontain

I wonder if the opinion would be the same if this was a video of Taliban fighters urinating on dead US marines, how would that make you feel if a member of your family was killed and treated in this way? Reguardless of sides and who is right this is just plain wrong. Just because they are our troops doesnt mean they should be cleared to act in this way, its a disgrace to the US Army and everything they stand for.

No they just air public beheadings... after the EPW has been tortured for weeks. By the way, is anyone here saying this action was OK or are you just playing devil's advocate? No one is clearing them for this.


And Iamasingularity... wasn't trying to specifically pick on the Japanese... most old-timer Marines I've talked to said the Japanese were the best and most fearless warriors they ever fought. Every country has its moments they're not proud of... here its been since 11/22/63... but that's a different story.

Vampiregenocide...