Pope says that "child rape isnt that bad" - Page 2

DrakkarTyrannis · 11-25-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

Well, it's "evil". The difference between mature sexuality and pedophilia is, you have sex with someone who is not an adult, can't protect him/herself, and carry lifelong psychological and sometimes physical damahges. Knowing this and still "abusing" children is evil. Damaging a kid is evil, period!

It is also a crime to have sex with ature women or men under "authority" advantages like the priests do. It's called sexual harrasment, and it's a crime.

He can't color it nicer no matter how much he tries. Is it evil to "want to have sex with kids"? Maybe not. Is it evil to do it? Absolutely!

Evil is a relative term. What's evil to you may not be evil to the next person. I agree that it's definitely wrong for obvious reasons. Do I think the offending person is "evil"..meh..not right off the bat. Do I think the act/urge is "evil", there are a lot of factors involved, some we have yet to actually understand so I wouldn't want to throw a damning blanket term like "evil" on it.

daemon barbeque · 11-25-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

Evil is a relative term. What's evil to you may not be evil to the next person. I agree that it's definitely wrong for obvious reasons. Do I think the offending person is "evil"..meh..not right off the bat. Do I think the act/urge is "evil", there are a lot of factors involved, some we have yet to actually understand so I wouldn't want to throw a damning blanket term like "evil" on it.

I see your point. But every sexual predatorism causing harm to anyone is evil. The person "knows" the harm, and the lifelong scars of that harm.
For instance the Priests
a) Shouldn't have sex at all but they do
b) They have sex in the worst form, homosexuality
c)They do it with a minor male who can't protect himself. Child abuse and predatorism
d) They also use their "higher" position, use god's name and maybe other methods to keep the kid silent.

The first 2 parts do not interest me. But the last 2 are definetly evil.

Dvaienat · 11-25-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

People don't need God to hate races, abuse children, commit genocide, etc etc..we make reasons. What better reason that "God wants me to"? You honestly think that people who do these things do them because the pages of a book told them to? I'd agree if everyone in that religion did it, but seeing as though they don't, that argument holds little weight.

I've never sat well with the idea of blaming a general for something specific. Music isn't the reason kids kill each other, religion isn't the reason people become lunatics, porn doesn't turn people into rapists. Sure these things can be argued but they hold little weight when you take into consideration that results vary, and vary drastically.

Like I said, child abuse, racism and genocide are ever present regardless of religion and due to the flaws of man.

Seeing as religious homophobia, for example, stems from the belief that God made men and women to be heterosexual and therefore homosexuality is sinful. Take away the faith in God, they've got no reason to be against gay people because they are no longer commiting acts of sin.

Likewise if Christianity had never existed, witches would never have been burnt and Christian crusades would have never happened. Since witches wouldn't have been accused of devil worship and there would not be a religion to forcibly convert people to.

Most often religious people aren't like that, and thank goodness for that. Their reason being that "we've moved on" or "I don't believe that part".

You can see that societies with less religion, such as the Scandinavian countries, have much more developed rights for women and homosexuals. This is because there is no reason for people to want to curb homosexuality and give women less rights.

I agree with the Steven Weinberg quote "with or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion".

DrakkarTyrannis · 11-25-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I see your point. But every sexual predatorism causing harm to anyone is evil. The person "knows" the harm, and the lifelong scars of that harm.
For instance the Priests
a) Shouldn't have sex at all but they do
b) They have sex in the worst form, homosexuality
c)They do it with a minor male who can't protect himself. Child abuse and predatorism
d) They also use their "higher" position, use god's name and maybe other methods to keep the kid silent.

The first 2 parts do not interest me. But the last 2 are definetly evil.

I'd argue that for some it's not easy to just snuff out sexual urges..much like men who marry women and spend decades sleeping with men in secrecy because they realized they couldn't fight the urges. They are aware of the harm it could cause but that "mating urge" no matter how mis-wired it may be, is still not easy to just turn off.

If one is honestly attracted to children, the urge won't go away. Some try to take on roles within a church because they hope it'll help..clearly it doesn't. Social stigma regarding pedophiles, needing to hide it to avoid isolation and embarassment, unable to have fulfilling relationships due to his true desires, yadda yadda..it's not completely beyond belief how these situations occur.

I know it may sound weird that I'm playing Devil's advocate for such a thing but honestly I just prefer to see both sides of the situation. It's easy to say "it's wrong and people who do it are horrible" as a knee jerk reaction but when you consider the other side of things, it's not as "evil" as it seems. This was a topic of debate in a college philosophy/ethics class one time and it was a very interesting conversation when one tried to see all sides of it.

Honestly I wonder why so many of them are part of the Catholic priesthood. I understand some feel God will help kill the urges but in this day and age it should be obvious that a little more is needed, yet we've been hearing about these issues for over 20 years now.

DrakkarTyrannis · 11-25-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatG

Like I said, child abuse, racism and genocide are ever present regardless of religion and due to the flaws of man.

Seeing as religious homophobia, for example, stems from the belief that God made men and women to be heterosexual and therefore homosexuality is sinful. Take away the faith in God, they've got no reason to be against gay people because they are no longer commiting acts of sin.

Likewise if Christianity had never existed, witches would never have been burnt and Christian crusades would have never happened. Since witches wouldn't have been accused of devil worship and there would not be a religion to forcibly convert people to.

Most often religious people aren't like that, and thank goodness for that. Their reason being that "we've moved on" or "I don't believe that part".

You can see that societies with less religion, such as the Scandinavian countries, have much more developed rights for women and homosexuals. This is because there is no reason for people to want to curb homosexuality and give women less rights.

I think we could argue this for a million pages. I think the issue is more human mindset than religion..that being said I certainly wouldn't mind a land without the guidelines of Christianity. By the way..did you look at your post count? I'll be sure to send Westboro your way

daemon barbeque · 11-25-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

I'd argue that for some it's not easy to just snuff out sexual urges..much like men who marry women and spend decades sleeping with men in secrecy because they realized they couldn't fight the urges. They are aware of the harm it could cause but that "mating urge" no matter how mis-wired it may be, is still not easy to just turn off.

If one is honestly attracted to children, the urge won't go away. Some try to take on roles within a church because they hope it'll help..clearly it doesn't. Social stigma regarding pedophiles, needing to hide it to avoid isolation and embarassment, unable to have fulfilling relationships due to his true desires, yadda yadda..it's not completely beyond belief how these situations occur.

I know it may sound weird that I'm playing Devil's advocate for such a thing but honestly I just prefer to see both sides of the situation. It's easy to say "it's wrong and people who do it are horrible" as a knee jerk reaction but when you consider the other side of things, it's not as "evil" as it seems. This was a topic of debate in a college philosophy/ethics class one time and it was a very interesting conversation when one tried to see all sides of it.

Honestly I wonder why so many of them are part of the Catholic priesthood. I understand some feel God will help kill the urges but in this day and age it should be obvious that a little more is needed, yet we've been hearing about these issues for over 20 years now.

As I say, I don't label pedophiles who have the urge to have sex with the kids as evil. I label the ones who take action, although they know the damge they are inflicting. I am an atheist, so the word "evil" is more bound with doing damage on purpose, and those priests action is definetly in this cathegory.

Dvaienat · 11-25-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

I think we could argue this for a million pages. I think the issue is more human mindset than religion..that being said I certainly wouldn't mind a land without the guidelines of Christianity. By the way..did you look at your post count? I'll be sure to send Westboro your way

It is certainly a topic which can be argued. I agree that humans are predisposed to prejudice against things which are 'different'. This is due to the tribal instinct telling us that foreign things may be dangerous, and is the main reason for racism and homophobia. Sexism is down to men wanting sexual domination over women... they want women to have 'submissive' places in society.

So clearly from this you can see why religion contains these things. For it was created by men.

Ah yes, my 666th post was an argument against Christianity

DrakkarTyrannis · 11-25-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatG

It is certainly a topic which can be argued. I agree that humans are predisposed to prejudice against things which are 'different'. This is due to the tribal instinct telling us that foreign things may be dangerous, and is the main reason for racism and homophobia. Sexism is down to men wanting sexual domination over women... they want women to have 'submissive' places in society.

So clearly from this you can see why religion contains these things. For it was created by men.

Ah yes, my 666th post was an argument against Christianity

I envy your metalness

Adam Of Angels · 11-25-2011, 02:48 PM

Haha, for real

thedarkoceans · 11-25-2011, 02:59 PM

i'm still pretty far from the 666th post,but i'm raging enough here in italy since vatican doesnt pay taxes

Deadnightshade · 11-25-2011, 03:17 PM

This is the only thing that comes to mind:

"Doesn't matter, had sex"

Xaios · 11-25-2011, 04:16 PM

Yup, it's official. I'd go gay for Drak.

And I'm a Christian.

I can see what the article is saying, that everything is relative. It's true. Child abuse is "evil" in the context of modern society, because modern society's values include the protection of children from sexually exploitation. I certainly won't argue that, and I believe its correct.

But a little perspective goes a long way. Societal views of homosexuality and pedophelia have swayed back and forth like a pendulum since... well, since Christ was around. It's a cycle that takes many, many decades to come around, but it's ultimately cyclical. Society slowly becomes more tolerant of homosexuality and pedophelia, then the puritans finally take notice and things start shifting back the other way.

For better or worse, I think globalization and the advent of the technological age may have finally broken the cycle, but it's only just starting to happen, which means the older generations can still remember a time that had a lot more in common with "the way things were" than we do now.

Someone mentioned that being attracted to a child isn't "evil," but acting on that attraction is. My personal view of homosexuality, shaped by my Christian background, is relatively similar. I don't believe it's a sin to be attracted to other men. I do, however, believe it's a sin to act on that attraction, because it runs contrary to God's intended design.

Here's the thing though. I've said it many times and I will continue to say it. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I'm not fit to judge anyone who's committed the "sin" of homosexuality because, God knows, I've committed countless sins myself. No human being alive today will ever to be able to claim perfection. But there's no sin that can't be washed away if a person is truly repentant. Punishment must be handed out accordingly, but so too must forgiveness.

That, of course, doesn't mean that these priests who've committed these acts shouldn't be subject to the rule of law, which is where I definitely disagree with the Pope and the actions the Catholic church has taken to "protect it's own." These men have committed a serious crime, for which they must pay.

(If I've said anything here that comes off as ambiguous, please say so.)

Adam Of Angels · 11-25-2011, 04:21 PM

Jesus actually said that thinking adulterously of another man's wife is the same as committing adultery, so, really, if you're a Christian, there's no difference between being sexually attracted to children and acting on that attraction.

Either way, I'm not sharing my opinion.

BucketheadRules · 11-25-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

You ARE aware that you sound just as bad as the lunatic Crosstitutes who think that everything non-Christian is a plague unto humanity right? The issue isn't religion, it's people. If religion never existed this would still be going on in some other form. Don't blame a system that other people benefit from just because others pervert it for their own ignorant purposes.

I know. I was coming on a bit strong in that first post... my second post ITT is a bit more detailed and clearer.

I'm not a hardline anti-Christian who thinks that every believer should be shot on sight, I merely dislike it a great deal as a religion and genuinely believe the world would be better off without it. I don't plan to take my beliefs any further into extremism.

Obviously there are more good Christians than bad ones, by a significant margin, but sadly it's the bad ones that gain all the publicity.

That said, I find evangelism UNBELIEVABLY irritating. One of my Facebook friends is an evangelical Christian and whenever she posts a status about how great Jesus is, I have to hold back every fibre of my being from trolling the living .... out of her.

Adam Of Angels · 11-25-2011, 04:42 PM

Unfriend her.

BucketheadRules · 11-25-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Unfriend her.

Nah, I sometimes find it quite amusing. Plus, it'd make me look (and feel) like a total arsehole.

Xaios · 11-25-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Jesus actually said that thinking adulterously of another man's wife is the same as committing adultery, so, really, if you're a Christian, there's no difference between being sexually attracted to children and acting on that attraction.

Either way, I'm not sharing my opinion.

You are absolutely correct, but you're also missing the point. The point that Jesus was trying to make was that no man could attain salvation through perfection, because perfection is impossible for a man to achieve. The very thoughts in our head are sinful. Thus, the only way for us to achieve salvation was through repenting our sins and accepting Christ's gift.

(Also, I'm not using the same for Sin and Evil. All men are sinful, very few are truly evil, if you catch my drift.)

Explorer · 11-25-2011, 04:57 PM

First off, this forum is for current events. Why are you posting a story from 2010?

----

ISKCON (the Hare Krishna group) reacted strongly when allegations of child abuse first surfaced. They removed everyone who participated from positions of trust and power, paid for counselling and damages to those who were harmed by it, and did everything they could to prevent it happening again.

Apparently Krishna is more inspiring regarding keeping children safe than Christ. The Catholic church, the various Krazed Kristian Kult leaders (yes, all those words start with a capital "K"), and so on are a huge danger, more so than gay Scout troop leaders.

Xaios · 11-25-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketheadRules

That said, I find evangelism UNBELIEVABLY irritating. One of my Facebook friends is an evangelical Christian and whenever she posts a status about how great Jesus is, I have to hold back every fibre of my being from trolling the living .... out of her.

Two points:

1) I agree, prosthelytyzing is extremely distateful.

2) I'd say don't hold back. One of two things will happen. You'll give her the opportunity to find out whether she's truly firm in her beliefs, which could help her grow as a person. Either that, or you'll get some epic lulz. Either way, everyone wins, at least from a certain point of view (as Obiwan would put it).

BIG ND SWEATY · 11-25-2011, 06:44 PM

lol the pope was touched as a child and is trying to make it seem like its ok

Necky379 · 11-25-2011, 06:54 PM

drak you're a homosexual satanist right? if i'm right then i think you're position in this is very cool.

i would imagine most people with your beliefs/preferences would be quick to jump on the ".... the pope" bandwagon. even if you're just in it to debate you made a lot of good points.

Adam Of Angels · 11-25-2011, 07:59 PM

Satanism is not in opposition with Christianity or any other religion in particular, so I don't know why it would be unexpected for a Satanist to take a logically sound position on this subject.

technomancer · 11-25-2011, 08:05 PM

Out of curiosity does anybody have a translation of the speech in question from a remotely credible news source? Perhaps something without adds for 9/11 conspiracy theory books on the sidebars?

DrakkarTyrannis · 11-25-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necky379

drak you're a homosexual satanist right? if i'm right then i think you're position in this is very cool.

i would imagine most people with your beliefs/preferences would be quick to jump on the ".... the pope" bandwagon. even if you're just in it to debate you made a lot of good points.

Honestly..Satanists believe in "third side politics". We believe there's left, right, and a middle ground and usually that's where most of the truth lies. In this instance I'm not with those condoning the demise of Christianity/pedophiles, or supporting them..I'm just giving a third option since I understand both sides and think both have valid points but there's a bit missing from each side.

Hemi-Powered Drone · 11-25-2011, 10:21 PM

The title was sensationalized, but there isn't evidence that he dismisses it and allows it to go on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkaneDemon

Wait isn't this the pope who was a Nazi? Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

But it probably is

Funny thing, the stupid white girls in my school's SGA made that the symbol of our class(2012).

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11-25-2011, 02:59 PM	#35
thedarkoceans Banned Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Forlì,Italy Posts: 811 Thanked: 58 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i'm still pretty far from the 666th post,but i'm raging enough here in italy since vatican doesnt pay taxes Deadnightshade likes this.

11-25-2011, 03:17 PM	#36
Deadnightshade I'm sayin' Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Athens Posts: 1,195 Thanked: 5 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	This is the only thing that comes to mind: "Doesn't matter, had sex" highlordmugfug likes this. Die.Get cremated.Laugh your ash off..

11-25-2011, 04:16 PM	#37
Xaios Foolish Mortal Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nimbus III Posts: 6,442 Thanked: 128 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yup, it's official. I'd go gay for Drak. And I'm a Christian. I can see what the article is saying, that everything is relative. It's true. Child abuse is "evil" in the context of modern society, because modern society's values include the protection of children from sexually exploitation. I certainly won't argue that, and I believe its correct. But a little perspective goes a long way. Societal views of homosexuality and pedophelia have swayed back and forth like a pendulum since... well, since Christ was around. It's a cycle that takes many, many decades to come around, but it's ultimately cyclical. Society slowly becomes more tolerant of homosexuality and pedophelia, then the puritans finally take notice and things start shifting back the other way. For better or worse, I think globalization and the advent of the technological age may have finally broken the cycle, but it's only just starting to happen, which means the older generations can still remember a time that had a lot more in common with "the way things were" than we do now. Someone mentioned that being attracted to a child isn't "evil," but acting on that attraction is. My personal view of homosexuality, shaped by my Christian background, is relatively similar. I don't believe it's a sin to be attracted to other men. I do, however, believe it's a sin to act on that attraction, because it runs contrary to God's intended design. Here's the thing though. I've said it many times and I will continue to say it. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I'm not fit to judge anyone who's committed the "sin" of homosexuality because, God knows, I've committed countless sins myself. No human being alive today will ever to be able to claim perfection. But there's no sin that can't be washed away if a person is truly repentant. Punishment must be handed out accordingly, but so too must forgiveness. That, of course, doesn't mean that these priests who've committed these acts shouldn't be subject to the rule of law, which is where I definitely disagree with the Pope and the actions the Catholic church has taken to "protect it's own." These men have committed a serious crime, for which they must pay. (If I've said anything here that comes off as ambiguous, please say so.) Revenge is a dish best served with nice biscuits. ALL HAIL DJOD, MASTER OF THE SSO NEGAVERSE

11-25-2011, 04:42 PM	#40
Adam Of Angels Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mount Pleasant, PA Posts: 5,907 Thanked: 89 $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 73 reviews	Unfriend her. UnderTheSign and flint757 like this.

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11-25-2011, 02:48 PM	#34
Adam Of Angels Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mount Pleasant, PA Posts: 5,907 Thanked: 89 $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 73 reviews	Haha, for real

11-25-2011, 04:21 PM	#38
Adam Of Angels Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mount Pleasant, PA Posts: 5,907 Thanked: 89 $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 73 reviews	Jesus actually said that thinking adulterously of another man's wife is the same as committing adultery, so, really, if you're a Christian, there's no difference between being sexually attracted to children and acting on that attraction. Either way, I'm not sharing my opinion.

11-25-2011, 04:57 PM	#43
Explorer He seldomly knows... Join Date: May 2009 Location: Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote... Posts: 3,696 Thanked: 40 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	First off, this forum is for current events. Why are you posting a story from 2010? ---- ISKCON (the Hare Krishna group) reacted strongly when allegations of child abuse first surfaced. They removed everyone who participated from positions of trust and power, paid for counselling and damages to those who were harmed by it, and did everything they could to prevent it happening again. Apparently Krishna is more inspiring regarding keeping children safe than Christ. The Catholic church, the various Krazed Kristian Kult leaders (yes, all those words start with a capital "K"), and so on are a huge danger, more so than gay Scout troop leaders. If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more? "Pay no attention to his long winded posts... (Explorer) seldomly knows what he's talking about." Adam Of Angels "Actual knowledge and a google bookmark are very different things." Anonymous neg-repper

11-25-2011, 06:44 PM	#45
BIG ND SWEATY Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Butt salsa lane, oswego, illinois Posts: 2,085 Thanked: 14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	lol the pope was touched as a child and is trying to make it seem like its ok

11-25-2011, 06:54 PM	#46
Necky379 SS.org Regular Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: USA Posts: 946 Thanked: 20 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	drak you're a homosexual satanist right? if i'm right then i think you're position in this is very cool. i would imagine most people with your beliefs/preferences would be quick to jump on the ".... the pope" bandwagon. even if you're just in it to debate you made a lot of good points.

11-25-2011, 07:59 PM	#47
Adam Of Angels Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mount Pleasant, PA Posts: 5,907 Thanked: 89 $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 73 reviews	Satanism is not in opposition with Christianity or any other religion in particular, so I don't know why it would be unexpected for a Satanist to take a logically sound position on this subject.

11-25-2011, 08:05 PM	#48
technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus • Super Moderator • Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Out there, somewhere Posts: 23,099 Thanked: 173 Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Out of curiosity does anybody have a translation of the speech in question from a remotely credible news source? Perhaps something without adds for 9/11 conspiracy theory books on the sidebars? DrakkarTyrannis, Adam Of Angels, Hemi-Powered Drone and 2 others like this. Incoming It's a surprise

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