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Unread 11-18-2011, 10:17 PM   #26
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That would be giving them too much credit. They're dense and refuse to budge... That sounds like sediment to me.
You got a point there. Plus they would have a ZERO nutritional value
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Unread 11-18-2011, 10:26 PM   #27
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Our government is so unbelievably incompetent 99.99% of the time. I honestly can't remember a decision made or law passed that made sense to me or that was actually agreed upon by the majority of citizens that went through. I wish we lived in a time where our citizens had the balls to form a mass revolt on the government and start fresh. We need that. Bad.

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Unread 11-19-2011, 01:16 AM   #28
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There's a reason why, in the wake of Congress changing the name of French fries to "freedom fries," the French started calling American cheese "idiot cheese." *laugh*

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Since white flour builds up and congests the digestive track over time, inhibiting the absorption of many nutrients, pizza is sort of neutral if you're going to count it's merits of health. As a rule, though, you shouldn't even consider this point to begin with.
What?

Okay, that's just plain incorrect. Source, please!

During some recent medical tests, I was talking to my gut guy about crazy claims about vitamin pills just accumulating in the gut, or other substances which supposedly stick around. "It's an amazing self-cleaning system. You didn't see all kinds of crazy stuff coming out, but all we did was have you drink that stuff, and you can see on the tape that you were clean as a whistle inside."

Really, claims that stuff just starts sticking around in a normal pathology is contrary to the facts.
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If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 11-19-2011, 02:21 AM   #29
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OH, WOW

Praise the sun!
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Unread 11-19-2011, 03:35 AM   #30
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Nutrition is the provision, to cells and organisms, of the materials necessary to support life. Many common health problems can be prevented or alleviated with a healthy diet. It is needed not just by adults but also by children and it would be maintain even in school. Modifications to school lunch programs might be blocked. If Congressional votes take effect, these changes could possibly be dead on arrival. School lunches are presently governed by the United States Department of Agriculture. However, regulations allow for French fries and pizza to be counted as veggies. Congress tries to block school lunch reform. Though the regulations would only technically affect free and reduced price lunches, which are government-subsidized, they effectively impact all school lunches. The bill is a compromise between the House and Senate, and is generally expected to pass. The school lunch provisions have been attached to the bill as a rider that will pass or fail with the bill. This has elicited strong responses from potato growers, who argue that the vegetable is nutritious and inexpensive, when prepared properly.
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Unread 11-19-2011, 09:46 AM   #31
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Peppers, corn and cucumber I thought were vegetables. Odd lol.
fruits carry the seeds of the plant, vegetables do not.
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Unread 11-19-2011, 10:02 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explorer View Post


What?

Okay, that's just plain incorrect. Source, please!

During some recent medical tests, I was talking to my gut guy about crazy claims about vitamin pills just accumulating in the gut, or other substances which supposedly stick around. "It's an amazing self-cleaning system. You didn't see all kinds of crazy stuff coming out, but all we did was have you drink that stuff, and you can see on the tape that you were clean as a whistle inside."

Really, claims that stuff just starts sticking around in a normal pathology is contrary to the facts.
Wrong. Of course, everybody is different, but there is plenty of research and medical cases that illustrate just how people's digestive tracks become sluggish, to put it simply. I'm not saying that the body isn't incredible and efficiently self-cleansing, but If you believe that nothing you eat can have a negative effect on your digestion over time, you're severely mislead.

[Necris] 6:23 pm: "you will deal with the pork you recieve"
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Unread 11-19-2011, 10:53 AM   #33
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Ugly Truths about White Flour

As mentioned here, refined flour, as well as refined sugar puts an unnecessary strain on the adrenal glands, amongst other things. The adrenals are instrumental in digestion, since they help regulate metabolism hormonally (What are the Adrenal Glands?).

When your body lacks the ability to break down food as well as it should, waste builds up along the intestinal wall. It takes a while, but in time, this causes such a build up that the actual muscular function of digestion is weakened, and substances such as refined flour build up, especially along the bends and turns of your intestines. Your body is very good at eliminating waste and toxins, but if you overload it with same (like most of us in the western world do with out horrible diets), you're more than likely to run into problems.

I'm not spending a lot of time digging up articles, since anybody interested is more than capable of finding this information themselves. I'm not saying that if you occasionally eat white flour, you're ....ed - but over time, it's detrimental to your health, and specifically to your digestion..

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Unread 11-19-2011, 12:33 PM   #34
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What I find sad is that they tried to rationalize the whole thing nutritionally as opposed to simply stating that they don't want to spend the money.
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Unread 11-19-2011, 05:11 PM   #35
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You made an amazing claim.

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Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels View Post
Since white flour builds up and congests the digestive track over time, inhibiting the absorption of many nutrients, pizza is sort of neutral if you're going to count it's merits of health. As a rule, though, you shouldn't even consider this point to begin with.
I asked for a source.

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I'm not spending a lot of time digging up articles, since anybody interested is more than capable of finding this information themselves.
I'm a huge fan of research, and so I normally do look at sites with good research when I am curious about a medical claim. I am definitely interested, but the only claims of intestinal build-up I found were from sites which seem to promote detoxing, as opposed to anything on, say, the NIH website, anything related to the JAMA, and so on.

I don't talk much about the details of where I work, but I've definitely talked, in the context of the problem of such "detoxification" enthusiasts who damage their health through strange approaches to a non existent problem, to our on-staff nutritionists. It was from that place that I talked to my gut guy, with the background of all the research I'd been wading through as prep for something at work.

And, it's from that place that I still ask, please give a source for the claim that "white flour builds up and congests the digestive track over time." Even the Women's Health Magazine article (not a journal, I know, but the source you posted) doesn't make that claim.

----

That article also drew an incorrect conclusion, incidentally. It asserted that eating refined carbs alters metabolism, and used as evidence the fact that someone eating simple carbs puts on more weight than someone eating the same amount of complex carbs.

The science on this, which is even in most exercise self-help books at this point, is that simple carbs can be absorbed immediately, while complex carbs take more action to break down into simple carbs, which can then be absorbed. As the complex carbs run through the system, they leave before they can be broken down completely. Further, some complex carbs can't be broken down by the body, including fiber, so it leaves the body untouched. That's not a metabolism being altered one way or another.

Anyway, although it will be surprising to those I know who keep up with such things, I'm interested in any reputable source for the claim that white flour builds up in the digestive tract over time. Cheers!
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Unread 11-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #36
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You actually completely ignored my point in favor of your own. I'm not disagreeing with you when you say that undigested substances are eliminated before they are completely broken down. What I described in my previous post IS my explanation as to how white flour can build up in the intestinal tract, although I didn't go into strict detail. There are more than enough professional publications stating that many people are walking around with an undesirable amount of waste in their gut. I've spent a lot of time reading articles, journals and books on this particular subject. You're claiming that you've done the same.

I'm drawing on a large number of sources I've read over the years when I say that substances like white flour can build up in your intestinal tract. I won't be bothered to dig up a source that focuses on that particular subject - like I said: your digestion can become sluggish over time. Your digestive muscles, along with the mucosal lining of your digestive tract, become burdened and to some degree ineffective at both absorbing and eliminating certain substances. Waste then builds up along the digestive wall. White flour is difficult to break down to begin with, and if you've ever mixed it with water, you'll see what it's capable of. I'm not proposing something outrageous or even controversial.

What's silly is that you're implying that all "detoxification" programs are bogus and nonsensical. That's almost like dismissing everybody who goes around picking up garbage in public places as crackpot, tree-hugging hippies. Its just like most people that eat a vegan diet, who don't understand how to do it properly and end up hurting their selves.

The majority of the literature on detox diets may or may not be shy of the mark, but that doesn't mean detoxing is always a worthless endeavor. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it. There are many habits, whether dietary or otherwise, that lead to glandular/hormonal imbalances. These can cause digestive malfunctions amongst other issues. Over time, the elimination of toxins becomes more difficult, and so these toxins get stored in a variety of places in the body. These are gradual problems, and not always easily detectable or even remotely severe. Candida over-growth, for one, is almost always a direct result of having a poor diet for some length of time. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you're suggesting that poor diet doesn't lead to digestive issues, and therefore a plethora of other health concerns?

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Unread 11-20-2011, 11:58 AM   #37
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Oh, and one of the best sources for this stuff is Cherie Calbom. She's known as "The Juice Lady." I'm willing to guess that most people who latch onto her work misuse her advice, but, she knows what she's talking about. One book of hers, "Juicing, Fasting, and Detoxing For Life", goes into pretty good detail as to how proper detoxing works.

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Unread 11-20-2011, 12:10 PM   #38
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Can we detox Congress (or the whole government for that matter)? There's a lot of shit that's built up in there over the past 200 years.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 12:20 PM   #39
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actually the majority of my lunch in highschool was only fruits and vegetables, cause i hoarded the the money my parents gave me for lunch to purchase distortion pedals for my MIND

the fuits and veggie bars are away from the prying eyes of the cafetiera staff so i would eat like 2 bananna's and some carrots or apples, and if there was a jesus that day, strawberrys. also i guzzled there milk like it was going out of style

pizza = vegtable

left = up

javier reyes = bassist

i guess its just how you perceive it
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Personally I enjoy fruit and milk as well but I know almost no one who actually chooses to get it (it comes for free with meals) let alone eats it.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 12:33 PM   #40
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What's silly is that you're implying that all "detoxification" programs are bogus and nonsensical. That's almost like dismissing everybody who goes around picking up garbage in public places as crackpot, tree-hugging hippies. Its just like most people that eat a vegan diet, who don't understand how to do it properly and end up hurting their selves.

The majority of the literature on detox diets may or may not be shy of the mark, but that doesn't mean detoxing is always a worthless endeavor. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it. There are many habits, whether dietary or otherwise, that lead to glandular/hormonal imbalances. These can cause digestive malfunctions amongst other issues. Over time, the elimination of toxins becomes more difficult, and so these toxins get stored in a variety of places in the body. These are gradual problems, and not always easily detectable or even remotely severe. Candida over-growth, for one, is almost always a direct result of having a poor diet for some length of time. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you're suggesting that poor diet doesn't lead to digestive issues, and therefore a plethora of other health concerns?
Ok, let's put it like this: there is no unbiased evidence that detoxing actually works, or that there is even a toxin to begin with. Why you shouldn't read sources on detoxing from detoxers is just sound research practice, they have a product to sell after all.

We know that picking up trash works, we see the trash go away. However, have you seen a spectrum of a toxin that is said to build up in a body? Has someone ever isolated one?

Claims without evidence is sadly not how science works, if that would not have been the case, I would have made a fortune selling genuine (with a given value for genuine) footprints of bigfoot!




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Unread 11-20-2011, 12:45 PM   #41
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Read the book I mentioned. It makes sense. You have to understand that toxic build up is a gradual thing. If you believe that your diet and your environment have no effect on your immune system, digestion, or body in general, I've got no place in this discussion with you.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 12:52 PM   #42
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Congress
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Unread 11-20-2011, 12:54 PM   #43
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Read the book I mentioned. It makes sense. You have to understand that toxic build up is a gradual thing. If you believe that your diet and your environment have no effect on your immune system, digestion, or body in general, I've got no place in this discussion with you.
Sure, diet is a large part of well being. But "detoxing" is unproven, and currently unprovable. See, those that are taking people's money can't produce any sort of evidence for their claims, and it certainly does not work that way.

So, I have not read the book, but I have read other sources on detoxing, and it all sounds like BS to me. Not to mention that they have never actually produced any toxin that is said to be responsible. That is, currently, they claim that we are poisoned by something that no-one has been able to prove exists... Do you see the big hole in that reasoning?

It's kinda like that exorcists claim we are attacked by demons, they can cure it, but they can't prove they've actually done something. But they'll gladly take your money anyway.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:01 PM   #44
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It's not really so much about specific toxins that are inherently harmful to the human body. For example, certain metals that the body actually needs can become toxic in certain quantities, and such a build up can occur as a result of a glandular imbalance, or digestive issues, including candida overgrowth (which can lead to a TON of different problems, depending on the severity of the issue). Again, a large majority of the stuff you and I ha e read has been blown out of proportion, but that doesn't mean that these aren't real issues. Just as there are tons of complaining patients leaving doctors' offices undiagnosed, there are tons of nearly undetectable issues causing a plethora of problems in people's bodies because most medical practitioners don't look for them.

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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:04 PM   #45
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It's not really so much about specific toxins that are inherently harmful to the human body. For example, certain metals that the body actually needs can become toxic in certain quantities, and such a build up can occur as a result of a glandular imbalance, or digestive issues, including candida overgrowth (which can lead to a TON of different problems, depending on the severity of the issue). Again, a large majority of the stuff you and I ha e read has been blown out of proportion, but that doesn't mean that these aren't real issues. Just as there are tons of complaining patients leaving doctors' offices undiagnosed, there are tons of nearly undetectable issues causing a plethora of problems in people's bodies because most medical practitioners don't look for them.
And those metals are?

Remember these guys are experts on making their products sound scientifical.




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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:10 PM   #46
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I'm not directly quoting anybody in particular by bringing up that example. Are you suggesting that you don't think the body can either become overloaded with, or deficient in certain minerals, vitamins, and metals? Like, do I have to explain that?

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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:16 PM   #47
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I'm not directly quoting anybody in particular by bringing up that example. Are you suggesting that you don't think the body can either become overloaded with, or deficient in certain minerals, vitamins, and metals? Like, do I have to explain that?
Sure, a lot of medical conditions can create a deficancy or a surplus of some metals/minerals. There is however no plausable reason to how a perfectly healthy human being can be poisoned by metals or other chemical compounds by eating a normal diet. Our body is a marvelous piece of machinery, and a part of that is waste-management, i.e. if you would get anything out of the ordinary/over a certain level, you pee it out. That is why vitamin supplements are usually redundant as well.

So, you bring something up as an example, but when I enquire more, you can't specify?
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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:23 PM   #48
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Sure, a lot of medical conditions can create a deficancy or a surplus of some metals/minerals. There is however no plausable reason to how a perfectly healthy human being can be poisoned by metals or other chemical compounds by eating a normal diet. Our body is a marvelous piece of machinery, and a part of that is waste-management, i.e. if you would get anything out of the ordinary/over a certain level, you pee it out. That is why vitamin supplements are usually redundant as well.

So, you bring something up as an example, but when I enquire more, you can't specify?

I mean, my example was something of ordinary understanding. Like... It was as specific as it needed to be. If you don't know anything about vitamin/minal deficiency, or overload, then say so, and I'll continue.

A for the first part of the above quoted text: what is a normal diet? Or a normal environment to be exposed to? I agree: if somebody were eating a normal diet, and leading a healthy lifestyle, they shouldn't really run into problems. A perfectly healthy human being is a perfectly healthy human being. Why would you assume that I'm talking about perfectly healthy humans? That is simply not the case for a lot of people in the western world, sadly. Our diets aren't normal, and as a a plethora of research suggests, even FDA approved foods are potentially harmful or nutritionally deficient.

[Necris] 6:23 pm: "you will deal with the pork you recieve"
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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels View Post
I mean, my example was something of ordinary understanding. Like... It was as specific as it needed to be. If you don't know anything about vitamin/minal deficiency, or overload, then say so, and I'll continue.

A for the first part of the above quoted text: what is a normal diet? Or a normal environment to be exposed to? I agree: if somebody were eating a normal diet, and leading a healthy lifestyle, they shouldn't really run into problems. A perfectly healthy human being is a perfectly healthy human being. Why would you assume that I'm talking about perfectly healthy humans? That is simply not the case for a lot of people in the western world, sadly. Our diets aren't normal, and as a a plethora of research suggests, even FDA approved foods are potentially harmful or nutritionally deficient.
A normal diet in this case, out of a toxic perspective, is something that has had clean water to grow in, been fed resonably clean straw etc. A dnormal diet out of a nutritional perspective is considered "eating most things", you get a little of this, and a little of that.
Nutritional supplements can be necessary for some with some medical conditions, they might not get enough, as with mal-nourished people.
As for metal poisoning (that is a very high intake of lead, chromium, aluminum or other metals) we have a medical procedure that uses a chemical process called Chelation.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 01:38 PM   #50
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You're supporting my case with every post you make, and yet you're asking me for an explanation. It's simple - if you eat an unhealthy diet for a particular length of time, and lead an unhealthy lifestyle, your body will not function perfectly. In a healthy state, our bodies absorb what is needed and eliminate what is not. In an unhealthy state, our bodies are not as good at either thing.

You're aware of how mercury can build in bodily tissue, right? Or how you can have less than desirable iron levels? And copper? What is it that you want me to explain? And what part of these issue has science failed to recognize?

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