Harperia (formerly known as Canada)

[The Omega Cluster]

The Reverend, NO we don't need those big-ass prison, but the Conservatives try to convince us we do, and I don't know why, and there's probably something behind all that that I'm not aware of.

I also found out that the convervatives work in a very underhand way. Most of the times, a relatively unknown conservative deputy will come with an idea for a law or whatever, and it will quickly be supported by the rest of the elected party. I think that those ideas form in the head, or in Harper's head, and are then transmitted to the "hidden" parts of the "body" and then they spread.... sly shit

[Grand Moff Tim]

Okay, so in America, people often say stuff like "If so-and-so gets elected, I'm moving to Canada!" Canada is just the go-to place for people when they're dissatisfied with the way things are going in the States, so that had me wondering. Where do Canadians threaten to move to when things threaten to take a perceived turn for the worst? England?

[soliloquy]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

Okay, so in America, people often say stuff like "If so-and-so gets elected, I'm moving to Canada!" Canada is just the go-to place for people when they're dissatisfied with the way things are going in the States, so that had me wondering. Where do Canadians threaten to move to when things threaten to take a perceived turn for the worst? England?

since we dont like america much, maybe cuba since no americans are allowed in cuba?

nah, our country is massive, so we usually just 'go to the next province'. since each province usually has differnet tax and insurance systems with slightly different rules and regulations.

[ArkaneDemon]

My escape plan is Sweden.

[zappatton2]

I've actually considered Norway myself. My sister moved there as a result of being a biologist in an area defunded by the Harper crew, but well funded by the Norwegians. Every description I've heard of the country is quite to my liking, I'd like to give it a visit, and if I like it up close, I may start taking a Norwegian language course as a first step. And yes, I have given this serious thought, that's how much I think this place is on the wrong track.

[The Omega Cluster]

I think most of the Canadians that live in Quebec and dislike the way things are going want to separate from the rest of Canada and make an independant country, Quebec.

That's most radical.

[groph]

I know dick all about Canadian politics or specific political parties and the history of said parties so I find it hard to comment much on Harper with a strong opinion.

One thing I can't stand is how conservative parties are socially ignorant. "No colonial history" is how Harper described Canada which is just completely untrue, absolutely false, like saying that the Earth doesn't have a moon. What's he trying to do, cover up our history and make sure everybody is on the same page with a sterilized, guilt-free image of Canada, the nicest country ever who never once stepped on someone's toes to gain an advantage? Please. If that's what Harper really stands for, then yeah, .... Harper.

Cutting funds to child care and anti-abortion stances are things I can never get behind, especially in a neoliberal culture that blames individuals for their shortcomings, strangely the same shortcomings that thousands more have, IE a child and no job. Good luck raising a kid when you can't be there because you have to work. Wait, you should have kept your legs shut, woman!

I can't say I support the huge crime bill either, the deterrence effect harsher penalties has is quite debatable but that's really an issue with the justice system in countries like Canada anyway so it's a bigger issue. Harper is just taking it farther.

Cracking down on protestors is ....ing fascism, in the sense that they're silencing dissent. At least it makes some legal sense to arrest people who are damaging private property but when you're randomly arresting protestors you're taking the right wing into scary territory.

Strengthening a military is okay but can't the $29 billion go towards strengthening our education system or healthcare or the deficit or something else that will promote some kind of common good (lol I'm a communist lol)? I mean people are going to get pissed off when the government spends a dime on anything because that means they didn't spend it on something else, or they spent it period, and government spending is the devil. I'm pretty sure CF-18's are still quite capable combat aircraft, we can probably get another 20 years out of them. We've been using the ....ing Seaking since 1963, we haven't had an aircraft carrier since the Bonaventure, our Navy is pretty ....ing tiny (though Halifax is now building a bunch of new combat ships), come to think of it, renaming the Canadian Army to the Royal Canadian Army is evidence of our goddamn colonial history because Canada was a ....ing colony of England. Jesus Christ that's the stupidest thing a human being has ever said.

This stuff gets to me because conservatism seems to ignore reality and live in some illusion of a "liberty for everyone, woo-hoo deregulated free markets" wet-dream which in theory is ....ing great. I like the idea of capitalism working as it's supposed to but the simple fact is, there isn't equality of opportunity, there are groups with significant power over others, Canada DID .... over the indigenous population and still does, nobody's pie in the sky ideal ever fits with what actually happens and that even includes people on the left wing. It's the rigid, regressive conservative ideology that can't seem to be divorced from ideas of fiscal responsibility and careful spending that pisses me off.

[soliloquy]

Originally Posted by groph

I know dick all about Canadian politics or specific political parties and the history of said parties so I find it hard to comment much on Harper with a strong opinion.

One thing I can't stand is how conservative parties are socially ignorant. "No colonial history" is how Harper described Canada which is just completely untrue, absolutely false, like saying that the Earth doesn't have a moon. What's he trying to do, cover up our history and make sure everybody is on the same page with a sterilized, guilt-free image of Canada, the nicest country ever who never once stepped on someone's toes to gain an advantage? Please. If that's what Harper really stands for, then yeah, .... Harper.

Cutting funds to child care and anti-abortion stances are things I can never get behind, especially in a neoliberal culture that blames individuals for their shortcomings, strangely the same shortcomings that thousands more have, IE a child and no job. Good luck raising a kid when you can't be there because you have to work. Wait, you should have kept your legs shut, woman!

I can't say I support the huge crime bill either, the deterrence effect harsher penalties has is quite debatable but that's really an issue with the justice system in countries like Canada anyway so it's a bigger issue. Harper is just taking it farther.

Cracking down on protestors is ....ing fascism, in the sense that they're silencing dissent. At least it makes some legal sense to arrest people who are damaging private property but when you're randomly arresting protestors you're taking the right wing into scary territory.

Strengthening a military is okay but can't the $29 billion go towards strengthening our education system or healthcare or the deficit or something else that will promote some kind of common good (lol I'm a communist lol)? I mean people are going to get pissed off when the government spends a dime on anything because that means they didn't spend it on something else, or they spent it period, and government spending is the devil. I'm pretty sure CF-18's are still quite capable combat aircraft, we can probably get another 20 years out of them. We've been using the ....ing Seaking since 1963, we haven't had an aircraft carrier since the Bonaventure, our Navy is pretty ....ing tiny (though Halifax is now building a bunch of new combat ships), come to think of it, renaming the Canadian Army to the Royal Canadian Army is evidence of our goddamn colonial history because Canada was a ....ing colony of England. Jesus Christ that's the stupidest thing a human being has ever said.

This stuff gets to me because conservatism seems to ignore reality and live in some illusion of a "liberty for everyone, woo-hoo deregulated free markets" wet-dream which in theory is ....ing great. I like the idea of capitalism working as it's supposed to but the simple fact is, there isn't equality of opportunity, there are groups with significant power over others, Canada DID .... over the indigenous population and still does, nobody's pie in the sky ideal ever fits with what actually happens and that even includes people on the left wing. It's the rigid, regressive conservative ideology that can't seem to be divorced from ideas of fiscal responsibility and careful spending that pisses me off.

humm...maybe i got it wrong, but neo-liberal, as an ethos stands for 'put EVERY penny towards the economy. .... all others, and demolish anything that even resembles social services. cut all funds that are not going towards the economy, as at the end of the day, the economy is what brings in money, not the poor or social service recipients!'

that is much the same thing that capitalism stands for. take marx for example, he is often considered the 'anti-capitalism' which he actually wasn't. he said that he had no problem with capitalism. he did, however, have a problem with what the capitalistic market made people into. ideas that once people spent their lives pondering over were reduced to earn wages at over worked jobs that killed off any sort of creativity.


but aside from those two points, i do agree with you!

[groph]

Originally Posted by soliloquy

humm...maybe i got it wrong, but neo-liberal, as an ethos stands for 'put EVERY penny towards the economy. .... all others, and demolish anything that even resembles social services. cut all funds that are not going towards the economy, as at the end of the day, the economy is what brings in money, not the poor or social service recipients!'

that is much the same thing that capitalism stands for. take marx for example, he is often considered the 'anti-capitalism' which he actually wasn't. he said that he had no problem with capitalism. he did, however, have a problem with what the capitalistic market made people into. ideas that once people spent their lives pondering over were reduced to earn wages at over worked jobs that killed off any sort of creativity.


but aside from those two points, i do agree with you!

That's pretty much what I understand neoliberalism to be, I must have said something wrong. Austerity cuts, lots of privatization, stuff that just seems to happen when the economy isn't booming. The giant welfare state of the 50's could have been supported because European industry was literally bombed to the ground and North America was in full production swing, at least that's how it's put sometimes, not necessarily my endorsed opinion. It's part of the neoliberal ideology to put the individual at the basic level of analysis. This is criticized because in effect it masks larger social problems, IE homelessness is the problem of lazy bums with no will to work, rape is the woman's fault or the fault of a mentally disturbed man, etc.

Yeah, Marx and Engels never made a blueprint for socialism or communism either, and Marx is allegedly quoted as saying on his death bed "I am not a Marxist," which is hilarious.

[The Omega Cluster]

You heard the latest news? Harper and the Conservatives (hey this could be good as a band's name) are going to organize a celebration for our contribution to war in Libya.

You know what? Vuck you, military patriotism, we aren't the United States of Canada yet.

[soliloquy]

Originally Posted by groph

That's pretty much what I understand neoliberalism to be, I must have said something wrong. Austerity cuts, lots of privatization, stuff that just seems to happen when the economy isn't booming. The giant welfare state of the 50's could have been supported because European industry was literally bombed to the ground and North America was in full production swing, at least that's how it's put sometimes, not necessarily my endorsed opinion. It's part of the neoliberal ideology to put the individual at the basic level of analysis. This is criticized because in effect it masks larger social problems, IE homelessness is the problem of lazy bums with no will to work, rape is the woman's fault or the fault of a mentally disturbed man, etc.

Yeah, Marx and Engels never made a blueprint for socialism or communism either, and Marx is allegedly quoted as saying on his death bed "I am not a Marxist," which is hilarious.

from my understanding, marx didn't say a LOT of stuff that he is credited for. at the same time, the ideology of 'marxism' or even the word 'marxist' and 'marxism' weren't coined until a few decades after his life. he build the most complete skeleton with some muscle on it. after his death, people who were inspired by him (thus, called themselves marxist) added more.

for example, marx is often credited for creating the idea of 'hegemony' which in fact wasn't coined, explained, and elaborated on in MUCH detail by a later socialist by the name of gramshi (gramcci?)


eitehrway, we are getting off of topic. the point is, harper sucks so hard that even donkey kong refuses to go near him...

[groph]

Originally Posted by soliloquy

from my understanding, marx didn't say a LOT of stuff that he is credited for. at the same time, the ideology of 'marxism' or even the word 'marxist' and 'marxism' weren't coined until a few decades after his life. he build the most complete skeleton with some muscle on it. after his death, people who were inspired by him (thus, called themselves marxist) added more.

for example, marx is often credited for creating the idea of 'hegemony' which in fact wasn't coined, explained, and elaborated on in MUCH detail by a later socialist by the name of gramshi (gramcci?)


eitehrway, we are getting off of topic. the point is, harper sucks so hard that even donkey kong refuses to go near him...

Antonio Gramsci, came up with the idea of cultural hegemony when Marx's "prophecy" failed to unfold, and I think this was in the 1930s. I haven't read the body of Marx's work but I do plan to, given how much bullshit is being sprayed everywhere nowadays whenever someone suggests something slightly left-leaning to a conservative American. Marx isn't a god of mine, and I don't think that he was "right" about capitalism but I really love his explanation of the capitalist system, at least how it used to be. Marx has been revived and re-interpreted a bajillion times. Idiots just irk me to no end, I don't care if there's an R or a D after your name.

[chevymeister]

Originally Posted by SirMyghin

Hopefully I get a job in the oil sands soon, I am definitely looking for one. Ecology be damned, I could make a killing in my field out there.

I appreciate more action against criminals, strengthening our military, and less taxation. I would love to see stupid crap like Cretians rights to criminals that have invaded your house preventing you from stopping them forcible. I am looking forward to when he kicks in that income sharing to effectively lower taxation for couples too.

I voted for Harper, and would gladly do it again. I am not a bleeding heart liberal, and I have no responsibility to take care of those who do not wish to carry their own weight. As for those who ran against Harper, they were by and large shooting the moon with nonsense that would imply gross taxation increases, or just ineffectual. So be it.

I realize we have a extreme left wing populace here on a music forum (shocking), but figured I would weigh in, in descent. The opposition made a stupid move by calling an election, and they paid for it greatly through pissing off the majority of people.

I think the other leaders were completely ....ing retarded, although I agree with the liberal values, their budget was ....ing insane. Doubling cpp rates, going to .... our generation for something that should never have existed in the first place. cpp has been ....ed since it's inception.

I hate the conservative morals but they are the only ones who actually seemed to have their heads on straight.

Regardless, I think they are all ....s so I voided my ballet. Noone said I had to vote for someone. Lol.

[Grand Moff Tim]

Canada is so ....ed. I feel really sorry for you guys.








No, not really . I've just been waiting for an excuse to say that in a thread about Canada, since a Canadian always feels the need to say something similar in every thread about America .

[The Omega Cluster]

Void votes actually mean something, I think...

So instead of refusing to vote, go there and check every name, or no name at all, or write something, draw a smiley, a dick, whatever...

Then, if those voids are counted, eventually they will notice our lack of confidence in the system...

Imagine, rather than having a 60% ratio of voters against non-voters, we'd have something like 90% of vote and, in that number, around 40% who left their vote blank. That tells something.

[AxeHappy]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

Canada is so ....ed. I feel really sorry for you guys.








No, not really . I've just been waiting for an excuse to say that in a thread about Canada, since a Canadian always feels the need to say something similar in every thread about America .

Actually....with Harper in power it is completely true. No Need for the, "No, not really."

[chevymeister]

Originally Posted by The Omega Cluster

Void votes actually mean something, I think...

So instead of refusing to vote, go there and check every name, or no name at all, or write something, draw a smiley, a dick, whatever...

Then, if those voids are counted, eventually they will notice our lack of confidence in the system...

Imagine, rather than having a 60% ratio of voters against non-voters, we'd have something like 90% of vote and, in that number, around 40% who left their vote blank. That tells something.

This is true. Most people think it's illegal and I remember someone on this board calling me retarded, a dumbass and saying I was going to end up in jail for it. Haha.

I wouldn't exactly deface the ballot as that is probably illegal, but I'd leave it blank.

[zappatton2]

An alternative to leaving ballots blank is voting third parties. I know the term is a bit American, as Canada already has more than two major parties, but still, we have plenty of registered small parties and independents, and I've often voted that way. At least when they have no chance of winning they can be truly honest. Wonder whatever happened to the Marijuana Party, they were hilarious. But there are still so many, like the Greens (I guess now that they have an MP, they are in the big leagues), the Libertarians, the Communists, the Christian Heritage, the Pirate Party, the Marxist-Leninists, I think I heard even the Rhinos are coming back! There are always options if you're sick of the big guys.

[groph]

Originally Posted by The Omega Cluster

Void votes actually mean something, I think...

So instead of refusing to vote, go there and check every name, or no name at all, or write something, draw a smiley, a dick, whatever...

Then, if those voids are counted, eventually they will notice our lack of confidence in the system...

Imagine, rather than having a 60% ratio of voters against non-voters, we'd have something like 90% of vote and, in that number, around 40% who left their vote blank. That tells something.

I'd think that might just make things easier for governments. <potentiallystupidstatement> Wouldn't it not matter of only 3 people voted, 2 of them for one party and 1 for the other? Someone's still getting elected. </potentiallystupidsentence>

I know Canada elects provincial representatives, not federal ones and then some voodoo magic happens that allows them to decide who's in office. But still, the less people vote, that just means there are more people who don't care that someone else is making a decision for them. It would still be a statement of indifference but there's still going to be a government. I'd take that as an invitation for governments to act with even more impunity if noone cared to vote.

[chevymeister]

Originally Posted by groph

I'd think that might just make things easier for governments. <potentiallystupidstatement> Wouldn't it not matter of only 3 people voted, 2 of them for one party and 1 for the other? Someone's still getting elected. </potentiallystupidsentence>

I know Canada elects provincial representatives, not federal ones and then some voodoo magic happens that allows them to decide who's in office. But still, the less people vote, that just means there are more people who don't care that someone else is making a decision for them. It would still be a statement of indifference but there's still going to be a government. I'd take that as an invitation for governments to act with even more impunity if noone cared to vote.

Well that's the thing. Voiding your ballot is voting. It's saying you all suck ass. If 75% of the country left their ballot blank I'm sure the government would go topside as opposed to 75% just not leaving their house. The difference? Not caring and caring but showing your dissatisfaction.

[AySay]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

Canada is so ....ed. I feel really sorry for you guys.








No, not really . I've just been waiting for an excuse to say that in a thread about Canada, since a Canadian always feels the need to say something similar in every thread about America .

Not EVERY thread...

[The Omega Cluster]

You said it, chevymeister.

Show your dissatisfaction.

[The Omega Cluster]

I've noticed that searching "Stephen Harper" on news.google.ca gives great results!

The two first articles that came today :
Condescending Harper decides to court China
Peggy Nash says Canada not 'normal' under Harper

[zappatton2]

So, just about had a heart attack this morning, having our office building practically clipped by military jets; the whole office was pretty much diving under their desks. I guess there's some big do commemorating our mucking about in Libya. So are flag-waving, patriot parades, complete with muscle-flexing displays of war machines in the skies and streets, the new normal? Who here remembers when we used to have a good laugh at the Soviets for the same thing?

[The Omega Cluster]

Haha you're so right, basically, Harper wants to americanize Canada... I guess he finds it too... Canadian?