So Gaga wants to meet with Obama about bullying

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

You really don't ....ing get it, do you? You had me figured right? You don't know a thing about me. You're just another bigot, as far as I'm concerned. Do a little research about this case, maybe, I don't know, get some perspective. Besides, that post doesn't even make any sense. Coherence, how does it work?

Wow, you really need help. Either calm down or stop posting duder. I'm a bigot?? Yeah OK, nice one.

Rev.

[Guitarman700]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

Wow, you really need help.
Rev.

Yup, you're probably right about that.

[Lon]

So, i read the whole thread and feel the need to speak out...

Do any of you ever consider that the usual "growing" or "lucky break" just does not occur to some?

Theres a lot of testosterone-talk in here about stop being a bitch and overemphasizing your own struggle... you get this opinion when you've actually grown. But when you're always beaten down and just do not get a break (yes this happens, the world is cruel) it becomes not only being bullied, it becomes living hell, everyday terror. Hell i tell alot of people on a daily basis to get the sand out of their vags and start to be men, but there are scars that go beyond the fear of talking up a girl or keeping workout discipline....

I look back at my own youth and how i've been beaten down and bullied and how my life really went down the drain, it turned out ok, but if it'd continue day to day, everday, if it never woud've got better, you're afraid to go to school, to leave the flat, your body twinches when someone moves their hands in your direction, it starts to be the living hell on earth.

In the end fate threw me some lucky brakes and i got the chance to actually grow into a fully socially functioning sociopath, appearing as having a tough as .... outer shell (with the size to back it up) and having a hard as .... inner core which gets touched by nothing, positive or negative.

what i am trying to say with this cool story bro: even if fate throws you some lemons, and you do manage to make lemonade, it will still taste sour and very unpleasant.

MY POINT IS: some do not get the luxury of getting thrown a chance, and claiming to need to to get the .... over it isnt gonna do anything good.

[Rev2010]

I think this thread started out and went well for quite a while but has now been derailed into an argument pitting whether or not bullying is a real issue. That was never the point here, it was about a pop Singer feeling the need to go to the president over it. Hopefully we can all stop arguing and continue to discuss that point, which is the real topic here.


Rev.

[Xaios]

Wow, this thread kinda went bonkers.

I was bullied a bit when I was a kid, around when I was 6-9. I was a big kid, I was "the nerd," and I was the one with cooties. Eventually, I just learned to adapt. Part of it involved getting my fight on a bit, part of it involved growing thicker skin and just taking it.

There was one kid in particular who bullied me a lot, to the point where the school intervened. But guess what? No matter what they did, he didn't stop. Beaurocracy can only do so much regarding this particular issue. Just as it is with so many things in this life, it wasn't a problem that could be solved with red tape. It was only when I learned to deal with it that things got better.

For what it's worth, I do think Guitarman is correct in his view that some differences, like sexuality, will provoke a stronger response in some people than simply being fat or skinny or nerdy, because it's a more polarizing issue from a social standpoint. Also, while traditional bullies of fat/skinny/nerdy kids do it so they can feel the satisfaction of exerting power over someone else, people who bully homosexuals do it because they're taught to hate.

The unfortunate truth, however, is that the battle for these people is just going to be tougher, and until society changes itself through natural, unforced progression, that's simply how it's going to be. You can educate people all you want about the issue, but you can't make them care unless you give them a reason to care.

Ultimately, it means that, no matter how hard we try, some people are going to get lost along the way. It sucks, but it's the bitter truth.

___________________________


As far as the discussion at hand though, people really need to step back and recognize a few things:

1) I doubt anyone is debating the fact that bullying sucks. That's a given.
2) The real question at hand is whether or not Lady Gaga is really qualified to serve as an ambassador for this particular cause.
3) The other side of the issue is whether or not the issue is a) worthy of the President's attention, given some of the other insane shit he's already got on his plate, and b) what could really be accomplished.

[Lon]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

I think this thread started out and went well for quite a while but has now been derailed into an argument pitting whether or not bullying is a real issue. That was never the point here, it was about a pop Singer feeling the need to go to the president over it. Hopefully we can all stop arguing and continue to discuss that point, which is the real topic here.


Rev.

Neither a popstar nor the president should have to intervene in bullying, this is an issue of every local human being, of every parent and every pupil, and not of people who are essentially not part of everyday society.

Bullying should be adressed on a scale close to the populus.

[Guitarman700]

I think we can all agree that Lady GaGa is full of hot air.
And that I shouldn't post under the influence of heavy anesthetics.

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

I think we can all agree that Lady GaGa is full of hot air.
And that I shouldn't post under the influence of heavy anesthetics.

And I should've eased down on my last few exchanges. One thing set me off and I could've acted more maturely.

For the record everyone Guitarman and I both apologized to each other.

@Lon - great post.


Rev.

[Konfyouzd]

** Removed. You 'd me **

[Konfyouzd]

Ditto...

[Lon]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

I think this goes back to the parenting as has been emphasized sufficiently.

Sometimes fate (like in my case) just prohibits parenting... but ok this should be the minority, still, i was bothered how the thread-consensus swapped to "everyone just needs to get over it and stop complaining".

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by Lon

Sometimes fate (like in my case) just prohibits parenting... but ok this should be the minority, still, i was bothered how the thread-consensus swapped to "everyone just needs to get over it and stop complaining".

That's not so much the point I was trying to make but at this point I don't think it matters anymore. What I was getting at is that allowing them to get to you is what perpetuates the problem. Bully = Troll. Reaction = Green light.

I'm aware that some ppl just don't have that in them but putting the idea out there might help some ppl realize they're not the piece of shit the bully wants them to believe they are. Perhaps it could have been phrased differently, but I've never been good at sugar coating. My apologies.

[Lon]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

That's not so much the point I was trying to make but at this point I don't think it matters anymore. What I was getting at is that allowing them to get to you is what perpetuates the problem. Bully = Troll. Reaction = Green light.

I'm aware that some ppl just don't have that in them but putting the idea out there might help some ppl realize they're not the piece of shit the bully wants them to believe they are. Perhaps it could have been phrased differently, but I've never been good at sugar coating. My apologies.

I firmly oppose... not reacting will have absolutely no effect, bullying is not some sugarcoating bullshit "people who put down other people to feel better about themselves", this are the 2-3 lardhogs who pick on kids because they get picked on for being full of excess crap.

The usual bully is very well integrated in whats called "society" in school, and usually of superior physical and mental power. It doesnt matter how you define real mental strengh, in the usual situation the obvious superiority is all that matters and then the sadism will commence. Bullying is pure enjoyment gathered from executing power over others. The only effective reaction against this is usually seviere physical violence. If you do not react the punishment will just continue because it never stops being fun beating the little nerdfaggot.

Differences, like skin colour, sexuality and whatnot are just excuses to legitimate the power over a person to others, typical evolutionary groupbehaviour.

I know i will not make a lot of friends with this statement, and my use of words is well considered to emphasize my point.

[Konfyouzd]

I think in a way it IS to make them feel better about themselves. You see... You mentioned that they're usually "superior" in some way according to the standards of a given society. And they use bullying to assert their authority over lesser people. Thus it boils down to them doing it simply to validate in their mind that they are, in fact, superior in the eyes of their society. It's insecurity.

Also, I'm not sure if you actually "firmly concur" as you kind of said the opposite of what I said (unless I misread your post).

[Lon]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

I think in a way it IS to make them feel better about themselves. You see... You mentioned that they're usually "superior" in some way according to the standards of a given society. And they use bullying to assert their authority over lesser people. Thus it boils down to them doing it simply to validate in their mind that they are, in fact, superior in the eyes of their society. It's insecurity.

Also, I'm not sure if you actually "firmly concur" as you kind of said the opposite of what I said (unless I misread your post).

I am opposed to your statement that no reaction will somehow prevent you from being greenlit.

While i support your point of helping people to be aware that a bully does not have any effect on their real value (not percieved self value), i think no reaction is the worst reaction to a bully. Hell i would advise people to beat the living crap out of one with a lead pipe before telling them to just take it and be silent...


€dit: i actually managed to get "concur" wrong in my mental dictionary, i switched concur with opposed...

[Rev2010]

Let's face it, there is no one definitive type of bully or reasoning for a bully. Some do indeed do it for some personal feeling of elevation. Some are just sadistic assholes. Some do it cause they themselves are bullied by their big brother or another family member.

There's no one reason to it that is applicable to all bullies.


Rev.

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by Lon

I am concurring to your statement that no reaction will somehow prevent you from being greenlit.

While i support your point of helping people to be aware that a bully does not have any effect on their real value (not percieved self value), i think no reaction is the worst reaction to a bully. Hell i would advise people to beat the living crap out of one with a lead pipe before telling them to just take it and be silent...

I can get down w/ that to an extent. I just feel like violence tends to bring on more violence. That and I just don't really like fighting and I imagine I'm not alone on that.

If it becomes a fight regardless then that's just what it is and you gotta do what you gotta do, but I never want to be the one to initiate that sort of confrontation.

[Guitarman700]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

I can get down w/ that to an extent. I just feel like violence tends to bring on more violence. That and I just don't really like fighting and I imagine I'm not alone on that.

If it becomes a fight regardless then that's just what it is and you gotta do what you gotta do, but I never want to be the one to initiate that sort of confrontation.

That's my mentality as well. I hate violence, but I won't just sit back and let you Kick my ass/steal my stuff/hurt my friends.

[ghstofperdition]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

That's my mentality as well. I hate violence, but I won't just sit back and let you Kick my ass/steal my stuff/hurt my friends.

This. So much this. Bullies try to find what they perceive to be as the weakest kid in the class and use them as emotional and physical punching bag. But the ones that are known to handle themselves well usually get left alone. My advice:
Get bullied? Curb stomp the bastard and he will never mess with you again.

However, that only applies to your garden variety type bullying. Bullying that has its roots in hate and prejudice is much more dangerous. If you try to defend yourself with force, it will only serve to inflame the situation. You use fists, the bigot will be back with a knife, putting you in a kill or be killed situation. Its THOSE situations in which I feel that we need to legislate against more strongly against bullies and less against their victims. I believe that in schools, if you get caught bullying a kid due to race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation, you are expelled. Even as a first time offense. Better that, than letting shit slide and said victim snapping and killing themselves or others.

[Sephiroth952]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

I believe that in schools, if you get caught bullying a kid due to race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation, you are expelled. Even as a first time offense. Better that, than letting shit slide and said victim snapping and killing themselves or others.

This, when i was constantly (everyday) getting ....ed with by these three kids at my school, I didn't go to the principle cause i wanted them punished. I went there to make them stop before I bring great punishment on them, something I would greatly regreting the future, but didn't mean I didn't contemplate strongly on.

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

This. So much this. Bullies try to find what they perceive to be as the weakest kid in the class and use them as emotional and physical punching bag. But the ones that are known to handle themselves well usually get left alone. My advice:
Get bullied? Curb stomp the bastard and he will never mess with you again.

However, that only applies to your garden variety type bullying. Bullying that has its roots in hate and prejudice is much more dangerous. If you try to defend yourself with force, it will only serve to inflame the situation. You use fists, the bigot will be back with a knife, putting you in a kill or be killed situation. Its THOSE situations in which I feel that we need to legislate against more strongly against bullies and less against their victims. I believe that in schools, if you get caught bullying a kid due to race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation, you are expelled. Even as a first time offense. Better that, than letting shit slide and said victim snapping and killing themselves or others.

They have legislation for this. It's classified as a hate crime, no?

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Its THOSE situations in which I feel that we need to legislate against more strongly against bullies and less against their victims.

I don't get it... in another thread people that are against the death penalty use statics in their arguments that say having the death penalty doesn't act as a deterrent for people to not commit a murder.

Yet here in this thread there are those that think there should be legislation to make bullying a special instance crime. So if having these added laws, like the hate crime law, doesn't actually deter people than what is the point exactly in wanting further legislation? We're also talking about the fact that most bullying tends to occur among ages where prosecution just isn't anywhere near the penalty of an adult. So if there are bullying laws what are they going to do, put a 13 year old kid in prison? Nah, of course not right... so what then... the parents get jailed?

IMO prevention is better than simply punishing after the event occurred. I strongly believe in punishment of course but at that point the mental and/or physical damage is likely done and will leave behind something the person will keep with them forever. So what type of legislation, for those of you that think there needs to be extra laws for this, do you think needs to be enacted?


Rev.

[Konfyouzd]

^ Well in here it seems that the line between "bullying" and "hate crimes" is rapidly blurring. And I agree that being proactive is far better than being reactive. But that starts in the home and is enforced elsewhere. Parents should be doing a fair bit of nuturing at home and probably pay more attention to the lives they bring into this world school officials should be more vigilant.

Can't catch it every time, but no matter how good you are, you're never perfect so there's always room for improvement.

[Grand Moff Tim]

Solution: Let teachers spank kids again . Bullies might think twice if they know bullying will mean going outside to get a switch for the teacher to tan their hide with .

[murakami]

i see a problem with people labelling any ordeal as a hate crime or an act of racism. in most cases, when people see that the victim was of different color or gay etc... they are quick to state that it was an act of prejudice. now i am not saying that is always the case, but i can't possibly believe that all cases are the result of some ass hating on other races.

i don't want to step on any toes, but i think it's easy to post blame on certain things entirely, like in this case, a bully who was bagging on the kid. he may possible had a mental imbalance that his parents ignored etc.. but yeah, i most definitely agree that the parents tutelage, if done properly, could have done a world of a difference for the victim.

^ Well in here it seems that the line between "bullying" and "hate crimes" is rapidly blurring. And I agree that being proactive is far better than being reactive. But that starts in the home and is enforced elsewhere. Parents should be doing a fair bit of nuturing at home and probably pay more attention to the lives they bring into this world school officials should be more vigilant.

Can't catch it every time, but no matter how good you are, you're never perfect so there's always room for improvement.