So Gaga wants to meet with Obama about bullying

[Guitarman700]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

What opinions are you referring to chap?

I don't mean ignorant in a bad way, I mean that some people are talking without having all the information. Im not supporting this gaga/obama thing, just throwing a different opinion into the ring.
The fact that bullying laws don't do anything. We got rid of the laws up here, and there's basically no punishment for it anymore. And you can't really change these people's opinions, they shriek and screech at you if you try to reason with them. It's rampant, out of control and sadistic. It cuts to the core. And there's really nothing we can do anymore, lest we get sued by the bullyer.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

I don't mean ignorant in a bad way, I mean that some people are talking without having all the information. Im not supporting this gaga/obama thing, just throwing a different opinion intomthe ring.
The fact that bullying laws don't do anything. We got rid of the laws up here, and there's basically no punishment for it anymore. And you can't really change these people's opinions, they shriek and screech at you if you try to reason with them. It's rampant, out of control and sadistic. It cuts to the core. And there's really nothing we can do anymore, lest we get sued by the bullyer.

I see what you mean. If you have no laws in place at all to protect someone from harassment then yeah you have a problem. I would expect there to be some basic laws to help people being bullied. I know you can take action here but kids are often too scared to do so.

[Guitarman700]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I see what you mean. If you have no laws in place at all to protect someone from harassment then yeah you have a problem.

The problem is, we are so hell bent on an all or nothing approach to this that no one can effectively take a middle ground.

[signalgrey]

here you go. This is my opinion on the topic.

"I'm mystified by the laziness of people looking at how she presents herself, and somehow assuming that implies there's a high level of intelligence in the songwriting. Her approach to image is really interesting, but you listen to the music, and you just hear glow sticks. Smart outlets for musical journalism give her all this credit, like she's the new Madonna …" She breaks off and laughs. "Although I'm coming from a perspective of also thinking Madonna is not great at all. I'm like, fair enough: she is the new Madonna, but Madonna's a dumb-ass!"

furthermore:

"I may have contradicted myself. My problem isn't actually with Lady Gaga. But there's not much in her music to distinguish it from other glossy, formulaic pop. She just happens to wear slightly weirder outfits than Britney Spears. But they're not that weird - they're mostly just skimpy. She's fully marketing her body/sexuality; she's just doing it while wearing, like, a 'fierce' telephone hair-hat. Her sexuality has no scuzziness, no frank raunchiness, in the way that, say, Peaches, or even Grace Jones, have — she's Arty Spice! And, meanwhile, she seems to take herself so oddly seriously, the way she talks about her music in the third person, like she's Brecht or something. She just makes me miss Cyndi Lauper."
-Joanna Newsom

basically Lady Gaga does shit for attention. This is one other thing she is doing for attention. Anything to keep the focus of how actually mediocre she is.

The President dosent prevent bullying, especially not in school.Shit, TEACHERS have a hard time curbing bullying in school. Clearly she wasnt bullied in school or she would know how that works. Getting jumped before or after school and "trap" areas where teachers are in the blind and ass kickings can be done. Its the schools responsibility to make their environment thug free.

Its nice to sound noble, its another thing to actually do something about it, and its another thing to actually have dealt with it.

[Guitarman700]

Yeah, I agree that this is supremely stupid.

[murakami]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

I don't mean ignorant in a bad way, I mean that some people are talking without having all the information. Im not supporting this gaga/obama thing, just throwing a different opinion intomthe ring.
The fact that bullying laws don't do anything. We got rid of the laws up here, and there's basically no punishment for it anymore. And you can't really change these people's opinions, they shriek and screech at you if you try to reason with them. It's rampant, out of control and sadistic. It cuts to the core. And there's really nothing we can do anymore, lest we get sued by the bullyer.

don't worry, no one thinks bullying should not be punishable. i think everyone here truly believes that it is a major problem and wish for
something to happen. however, our main problem is with lady gaga being a representative of this cause. her music, and some of the things she says in interviews etc... are the things i would ridicule another person myself because it's encouraging people to behave like a skank/idiot etc... and not care about it.

heres a quote from that retard;

"When you make music or write or create, it's really your job to have mind-blowing, irresponsible, condomless sex with whatever idea it is you're writing about at the time."

...., if had a daughter i wouldn't let her listen to this shit. i'd rather her listen to cannibal corpse and look at their covers than her ....ing hooker clothes.

[vampiregenocide]

She's a bit of a whore imo, albeit a talented one.

[Guitarman700]

Just to clarify, I don't disagree with anyone in here, I just think that both extremes of this situation offer no real long term solution. Probably should have phrased that better.
Goodnight gentlemen.

[Blind Theory]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

Goddamn There's some angry people in here, and some pretty ignorant opinions.
How many of you have been mercilessly bullied based on your sexuality or religious beliefs? It's more than simply harassment.

I've been bullied for my size because I am skinny.
I've been bullied for my religious beliefs because Christianity isn't cool apparently.
I've been bullied through verbal harassment that sometimes gets extremely personal.
I've been bullied physically.

I've been bullied for as long as I remember. This is why I agree with your last sentiment. It is SO much more than harassment. There have been points where I didn't like myself because of what others have said to me. I knew they weren't true but shit carries further than a lot of people think. I am guilty of bullying because of being bullied. You get put down so much it makes you do anything to feel a little better about yourself. It can have serious mental, physical and emotional consequences. It took me a long time to be able to shut it out of my mind and be able to work on improving my self esteem. So while I agree something needs to be done, I also understand that no law is going to fix it. Hence why I said the solution is found in the home.

[Konfyouzd]

"Everyone has a voice..."

Some ppl feel they can take this as far as they want bc of the First Amendment and I guess to an extent they're right, but I really think a lot of these artists need to get over themselves. They're not as deep or revolutionary as they think.

Remember this?

"Bush doesn't care about black ppl! I love fish sticsk!"

[Konfyouzd]

On bullying... I think bullying is interesting when you really think about it. The bully usually does what he/she does bc they don't like themselves. Their actions serve only too make someone else feel the way they do. So clearly the reality of the situation is that the bully must either envy or look up to you in some way if they feel the need to bring you down to the way they feel on a consistent basis. Thus logically it makes no sense for you to hate yourself when in reality someone else is more or less admitting that they see you as some sort of measuring stick.

I know that this isn't an easy viewpoint to adopt when you're the bullied person, but I feel that if it were a sentiment that were expressed more often it could help more people cope with this type of thing.

[Church2224]

The people posting in this thread are the reason I love this forum so much...

I am getting sick and tired of all of these celebrities trying to get involved in a lot of these political issues. Who cares what they think? People need to think on their own stead of listening to these celebrities...

And with the economy down the toilet, millions who have lost their jobs and maybe millions will loose more, a deficit that is absolutely FUBAR, Social Security in jeopardy, health and medical concerns that need to be addresses, and Lady Gaga wants to have the president sit down and talk to her? Get over yourself, you are just one person, MILLIONs more need the attention of our government. She needs to get over herself...

As for bullying, I have been there, badly, and my sympathies go out to those who have been victims of it in middle school, high school and college. Been sucker punched a few times, kicked in the groin a few times more, threatened, insulted and made fun of for being conservative, Christian, middle class and liking metal, (Even though I went to a Catholic school) And when you have a few anxiety and obsessive disorders you are already insecure, scared, and worrying as it is, it all makes it unbearable.

Instead of laws for bullying we need to attack the core problem it self. We need to focus on issues with individual students with their own personal problems so they do not use their peers as "outlets" so to speak. A lot of these bullies are insecure themselves and have their own issues, so why not focus on those concerns, then work from there...

Also as somewhat radical as it seems, we need to teach kids to stand up for themselves. Sometimes when these kids do defend themselves from bullying they in turn get an equal OR GREATER punishment. Why can we not defend ourselves anymore without offending some one I have no clue...

But seriously if I came home and found out my child was suspended because she stood up to a bully and fought back in self defense I would be proud of him/her and fight the school to the death about the issues.

Sometimes these bullies will back off if someone stands up to them. Maybe not all the time, but it can help. That is how it all ended for me, I finally had enough and stoop up to this hockey player who said I was a piece of shit. After I told him what I thought of him, well, he backed off and had a new found respect for me.

Like I said it may not work all the time, but we should be encouraging our kids to stand up for themselves. Sometimes going to the teachers and administration makes things a whole lot worse....do not ask how I know...

[vampiregenocide]

I do think celebrities can be important in highlighting issues. People are more likely to pay attention to a celebrity rather than a politician, and the fact we've even debating this topic shows Gaga has succeeded in making people think about how we treat bullying.

There do need to be strict anti-harassment guidelines that should cover bullying and harassment in general not just at school but work places etc (bullying still happens after school life). If those are solid, then you can cover a wide range of cases and makes bullies responsible. As Colin/Guitarman700 pointed out, his state has no laws for this at all in which case you definitely have a problem. I would expect some sort of legal protection for bullying victims to be a given, hence I objected to further laws as if what you have already doesn't work then you probably aren't tackling the issue itself correctly.

[kung_fu]

As some people have mentioned, bullying isn't something that will ever go away. Rather than throwing money at and/or creating laws to curb bullying, i believe time would be better spent if time and effort was put into counselling for victims of bullying and just ensuring that kids in general have a sense of self-worth. The fact is, i was bullied by various people growing up. It wasn't anything as bad as a full blown daily beating, but did consist of physical and verbal assault and intimidation to a degree severe enough to make me feel unsafe whenever a grownup wasn't present. I was a target for several reasons, particularly that i was smart, small, and too timid to ask anybody for help. Sure, there were rules in place to prevent bullying (essentially laws) but as you know all of the best criminals are always a step or two ahead of the law anyway. If you told a grownup, they might intervene and force an apology or punish the bullies somehow, but that only worsens things as you know have a humiliated bully on your hands. This compounds the problem, as the bully probably had self-esteem issues anyway and now his self-image is made worse. The second the punishment ends, he's back to his old habits, sort of like if you snitched on a criminal (which is what they would be if actual laws are enforced). Guess who they're gunning for once they've "flown the coop"? Are we going to have to have victims placed in the witness relocation program?

The main thing that gives bullies incentive to do their thing is the self esteem boost that they get by seeing their victims faces as they see them intimidated. Harsher penalties are simply ignoring the main causes of the problem; curing the disease by killing the patient. If bullies had greater self-esteem, they wouldn't need to bully. If the victims had greater self-esteem, they would have better tools to cope with bullies.

I should add that with respect to extreme cases of bullying (particularly cases leading to deaths/suicides), the bullies should indeed be prosecuted...though behavior of this case is already covered in most places under harassment laws anyways. It could also be hard to prosecute bullies, as a bully can basically be as far ranging as someone who beats you up to someone who calls you a "fag" once as these are all things that get someone in a bad enough mental state in which they might contemplate suicide. Would there be 1st degree/2nd degree/ 3rd etc bullying charges? Regardless of what the legal repercussions become, at least those who pushed him to this extreme have to live with this on their conscience for their entire lives. If that isn't enough to change someones attitude, I'm not 100% convinced that time in juvenile hall will make any difference. Either you are remorseful or you aren't

[vampiregenocide]

Bullying isn't always done because someone has low self esteem and wants to make themselves feel better. Some people are ....s and just like taking the piss out of people.

The kid that inspired Gaga to go on this little mission commit suicide because he was bullied about his sexuality. He tried to get help from many people but was ignored. As is often the case, the warning signs are there people just refuse to act. This is a failure of society, teachers and parents, not of the law and must be dealt with accordingly. Students need to be able to get help with bullying and know that something will be done about it (more than a stern telling off). Many times kids go and try to get help, nothing really gets done and the bullying intensifies because they told on them. Bullying victims need to have confidence that something will be done, because they're often afraid to begin with.

[chronocide]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I do think celebrities can be important in highlighting issues. People are more likely to pay attention to a celebrity rather than a politician, and the fact we've even debating this topic shows Gaga has succeeded in making people think about how we treat bullying.

It's a little saddening that the opinions of celebrities might often be held above those of experts in whatever field, but if someone brings an important issue to light, I don't really care who they are.

Furthermore, if you are in a position where people will take notice of what you say and you might be able to be influential on a subject you are passionate about, you have a duty to try and bring it to the public and governmental eye.

[kung_fu]

^^^^
(vampire)
Totally agree. I didn't mean to imply there was only one cause or one solution to bullying (i was sort of just riffing), though one needs to ask "why are these bullies being such ....s". The answer surely isn't "because they are ....s. ....s act ....y" there is probably some other issues at play, whether self-esteem based, societal/moral flaws or whatever. A law or heavy punishment might indeed be successful in curbing behavior, at least temporarily, but like you said I wouldn't have felt comfortable going to an authority figure unless i knew something would be done to fix things on a more permanent level. Rather than the half-assed dressing down given to bullies by authority figures that i spoke of, both bully and victim need some sort of further attention given to their respective side of the problem. Law or no law, most bullies probably know that what they are doing is wrong and would hate it if the shoe were on the other foot. Those that know this usually only need minimal correction, but those that don't...i suppose could benefit from seeing large deterrence's put up. Not sure any new laws are needed though, just proper classification of current bullying crimes -> assault, abuse, battery, etc. not "bullying" as it is just another word for assault anyway

[kung_fu]

I should add that i despise Gaga, but it's great seeing her making news for something important rather than "OMG...she's wearing a hat made out of dildos. GEEEENIUUUUS"

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by chronocide

It's a little saddening that the opinions of celebrities might often be held above those of experts in whatever field, but if someone brings an important issue to light, I don't really care who they are.

Just for the record, I didn't intend to imply by posting this thread that celebrities opinions are negligible nor that they should stick to their profession and not do something to help with current issues such as this. My point was that she tweeted, "I'm going to meet with Obama" to discuss bullying and how to deal with it - which you know means via legal methods 99% of the time cause what else would Obama do for this??

The fact that she stated this without even having setup an actual appointment is pure arrogance, and simply thinking that just because she's a famous pop singer that she should deserve audience with him disgusts me. That and the fact that she thinks the president needs to be involved with this which I find ridiculous.

And as mentioned of course this usually leads to more legislation. Soon we'll be spending millions in legal trial waste just trying to define if someone's charges should fall under bullying or a hate crime. "I'm a black kid and this white kid beat me up" - well gee... is that a hate crime now or bullying cause they went to the same school? It's just getting way way out of hand. Again, good for her to want to do something, but she's a ....ing idiot for going about it this way.

Heck, I think her simply spouting her acceptance rants during her concerts probably help more people to face bullying then anything the president could do.


Rev.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

I think it's cool that she's attempting to do something. Even though it may be considered misguided, it's cool to see someone doing something with their celebrity status. The issue with Gaga is the poor chick can't win for losing. If she shuts up and sticks to music she a "talentless hack without a brain blah blah" and if she tries, seemingly because she really cares it's "dumb ugly bitch is just stupid and takes herself to seriously blah blah".

On a topic like bullying I don't think laws will help but it will take many solutions to conquer the overall problem which is very huge. Whereas some might not agree with what she's doing, she's doing SOMETHING, not just with her music and message, but actually trying to, if nothing else, use the publicity to get people to talk about it.

[Rev2010]

^^^ I think you missed the point a bit. Read my post right before yours.


Rev.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

^^^ I think you missed the point a bit. Read my post right before yours.


Rev.

I wasn't commenting on anyone's particular point. Just on the topic of her attempt.

[vampiregenocide]

I just find it hypocritical that she has a to be honest, quite slutty image with the typical grinding up against guys half naked thing and tries to be a role model for young girls. If Adele had done this I'd be more behind her because she is a better role model imo. She's not as sexually charged and relies on her talent. Plus she's more attractive imo. Bigger girls ftw.

[Pooluke41]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

. Bigger girls ftw.

But Seriously, Lady Gaga Was amusing at first, And Now she's become this Large Attention Whoring Entity, Much like a Hipster,





And as Everyone else has said, You can't go to the Government to stop Bullying, It doesn't work...

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Pooluke41

And as Everyone else has said, You can't go to the Government to stop Bullying, It doesn't work...

It even sounds funny saying it right!? - "I'm gonna go to the government to talk about bullying" LOL

Also it's funny cause our government is a bully itself.


Rev.