Federal Gibson Guitar Raid

[Church2224]

Originally Posted by TheJokker

this is the "hope and change" you get from radical liberals. the very same people who have over-regulated business and driven jobs overseas want to regulate anybody who aspires to owning a fine guitar.

Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com

radical environmentalists have decided that users of exotic woods are the enemies and are willing to use the power of the federal government to enforce their perspective down everyone's throats. i want these people "out of power". i want less regulation and more freedom. gibson is the victim not the enemy...

After reading into this-



and looking into it more and more, I have to agree with you.

Something is not right here though...

[ArtDecade]

I can't afford a PRS Private Stock and those that can afford them will get what they want either way. Ha.

[JamesM]

I mean, an armed S.W.A.T. team? ....ing really?


Kudos to the dude for having the balls to continue production and take personal responsibility. I respect that.

[Uncreative123]

Just read this on a blog- regarding the definition of the law that lead to this mess in the first place; Had very little to do with the actual wood:


“So the government’s contention is that because American workers are working on that and finishing it, that it is not a finished product and, therefore, initially Madagascar law – and now I guess they’re contending Indian law – says you can’t remove unfinished product from the market. So in other words, if a person in Madagascar had completed the work on that blank, it would be legal. But the fact that American workers are finishing the work in the United States, makes it illegal, as far as their concerned.”

“The government’s position is, that is the law of the land in Madagascar and they are saying that is the law of the land in India. That is not the case. The fact is, we have affidavits from numerous government officials – and this court case, specifically now, is for Madagascar wood. We have affidavits from virtually every govt official saying that it is legal, that their definition of what is legal is a fingerboard blank and its been exported within every certification that is necessary. So they have the arrogance to interpret Madagascar law differently than the people of Madagascar.”

So the jackboots in the Obama administration are wrongly enforcing other countries’ laws and preventing American workers from doing their work here.

Typical DOJ: Ignore American laws. Foolishly enforce foreign ones at American companies’ expense."



Interesting indeed....

[Powermetalbass]

Welcome to the world economy friends! Also doesn't surprise me. America policing the world for 75 years without a clue what they are doing.

[MassNecrophagia]

I've got some ebony logs Gibson can have.

[th3m1ke]

Originally Posted by Opion

Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com





I didn't see this posted anywhere, but this article caught my eye on a random news website. I suppose this is only for US Government, seeing how overseas companies like ViK, Strandberg and the like use quite the selection of exotic woods to build their instruments. I wonder if this is going to hinder PRS Private Stock instruments from using their tasty Brazilian Rosewood necks....

It won't affect PRS becuase they cooperate with the DEC unlike Gibson who from my understand, has a bad attitude towards it. I wouldn't be happy either but if you mess with the bull, you're going to get the horns.

Also I can tell you that for every piece of Brazillian rosewood that PRS gets, they have all the paperwork and documentation to cover the legalities of it.

[Ancestor]

are you serious? don't snort your les paul, man. that is wack.

well, they know what they're doing. they charge enough for their products, they can be on top of this stuff.

[mountainjam]

Federal Gibson Guitar Raid

[The Reverend]

Originally Posted by Uncreative123

Just read this on a blog- regarding the definition of the law that lead to this mess in the first place; Had very little to do with the actual wood:


“So the government’s contention is that because American workers are working on that and finishing it, that it is not a finished product and, therefore, initially Madagascar law – and now I guess they’re contending Indian law – says you can’t remove unfinished product from the market. So in other words, if a person in Madagascar had completed the work on that blank, it would be legal. But the fact that American workers are finishing the work in the United States, makes it illegal, as far as their concerned.”

“The government’s position is, that is the law of the land in Madagascar and they are saying that is the law of the land in India. That is not the case. The fact is, we have affidavits from numerous government officials – and this court case, specifically now, is for Madagascar wood. We have affidavits from virtually every govt official saying that it is legal, that their definition of what is legal is a fingerboard blank and its been exported within every certification that is necessary. So they have the arrogance to interpret Madagascar law differently than the people of Madagascar.”

So the jackboots in the Obama administration are wrongly enforcing other countries’ laws and preventing American workers from doing their work here.

Typical DOJ: Ignore American laws. Foolishly enforce foreign ones at American companies’ expense."



Interesting indeed....

Because Obama handpicked the guy who likes Fender more than Gibson and decided to .... with them.

I agree with you on your post, but that slight dig at Obama was kinda reaching, brother.

[Ancestor]

Originally Posted by mountainjam

Federal Gibson Guitar Raid

you know, man... just stupid. then fine. no more wood from there. it's baloney, because they are just trying to push for manufacture in their country and that can't happen with this company.

[troyguitar]

Obama prefers maple fretboards.

I had to at one of the guys who posted about this on a different forum, here's what he wrote:

"God, guns and Gibsons is what made our country GREAT, dammit!"

[Church2224]

Originally Posted by troyguitar

Obama prefers maple fretboards.

I had to at one of the guys who posted about this on a different forum, here's what he wrote:

"God, guns and Gibsons is what made our country GREAT, dammit!"

I would get along with that guy really well!

[SirMyghin]

Originally Posted by troyguitar

Obama prefers maple fretboards.

I had to at one of the guys who posted about this on a different forum, here's what he wrote:

"God, guns and Gibsons is what made our country GREAT, dammit!"

I posted somewhere with some gibbo fanboys and the sentiment was pretty much "Gibson can use whatever trees they damn well feel like no rationale required". Sickening really. I may not agree with the methods excised to enforce this but I certainly don't support illegal wood trade in any way shape or form.

[KingAenarion]

The story about the piano company was ridiculous too... $17,500 fine for not filling out the paperwork EXACTLY perfectly... on Piano's so old they were created when harvesting Ivory was a common practice???

Insanity I tell you

[th3m1ke]

I'm not a Gibson guy but I must say I respect him for standing up and speaking his mind regarding the manner. I mean if you read the open letter on the Gibson website, he literally gives his direct phone number in case anyone wants more information.

[Opion]

Ah okay, my bad on the repost. Interesting to see they are defending themselves nonetheless, we'll just have to see how that turns out ourselves.

[Floppystrings]

How many Gibson guitars have an ebony fretboard...

The LP Custom? What else?

This doesn't make much sense, sounds kind of weird to me. Sounds like a money collection.

[Scar Symmetry]

This bit made me laugh:

The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday...
...the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle.

[MaxOfMetal]

Originally Posted by Floppystrings

How many Gibson guitars have an ebony fretboard...

The LP Custom? What else?

This doesn't make much sense, sounds kind of weird to me. Sounds like a money collection.

Gibson has a few dozen guitars with Ebony boards, not to mention the custom orders.

[chronocide]

One is thoroughly amused at folks using this to have digs at Obama and "liberals" (you know, the "liberals" as labelled by American politics, the guys that would be right wing anywhere else). Because these international laws definitely wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them. Definitely not. Not a chance.

Good grief.

It seems overzealous, but a company of Gibson's size can clearly keep well within the law if it cared to do so.

Also, the scaremongering of the articles regarding old guitars or anything with controlled woods is laughable. I've LOTS of friends who travel around the world with Brazilian rosewood guitars. Old Martins, a bunch who do it all the time with Moon acoustics, PRS modern Eagles and the like, without bothering with documentation and to my knowledge none of them have ever encountered a problem.

I know a friend had to stop travelling with one guitar because of its tortoiseshell and ivory, but him aside...

[nothingleft09]

Ok, I'm just saying here..... Gibson addressed Indian woods... I thought this was a Madagascar Ebony problem? Nice way to avoid the point Gibson. Although they could just be maing a reference to the law in itself, but wouldn't you atleast make your point relevant to the charges at hand?

[7stg]

This is so wrong. Armed swat to go steal millions of dollars worth of their wood and shut them down. The wood was either certified or controlled and approved by Indian governmental agencies and passed US customs. As a bonus Gibson has hired 580 new employees in the past 2 years, however no word of who was fired or quit. The interview with Henry Juszkiewicz, Chairman and CEO of Gibson Guitar Corp has more information.




They did it to Rawsome Foods and stole all their food and through it out/ let it spoil.


Wonder what will happen to the millions of dollars worth of wood. Guess who ultimately will eat that cost.

Welcome to ДMEЯIКД

[Utnapishtim]

Originally Posted by KingAenarion

The story about the piano company was ridiculous too... $17,500 fine for not filling out the paperwork EXACTLY perfectly... on Piano's so old they were created when harvesting Ivory was a common practice???

Insanity I tell you

If you look up the story, you'll find that the guy told customs that there was no Ivory on the Pianos, and that he had removed the keys and hidden them in his luggage. And this was after his company had asked officials about the importation requirements. He clearly knew what he was doing, and was caught red-handed trying to smuggle Ivory into the US.

A-440 PIANOS, based in Atlanta, Georgia, imports, exports, and sells pianos to domestic and international customers. In September 2009, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Special Agents received information from the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (“CITES”) Secretariat’s office in Geneva, Switzerland, that a representative of A-440 PIANOS had made an inquiry regarding CITES documentation requirements. Within a few weeks, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Special Agents and U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agriculture Specialists inspected a piano shipment imported by A-440 PIANOS. The invoice accompanying the U.S. Customs and Border Protection entry packet declared ten of the eleven pianos in the shipment as having “no ivory keys.” No CITES permits or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service declarations accompanied the shipment. Two pianos had the keyboards removed and five pianos had the individual keys removed. Investigators noted that two piano keyboards were located in the bottom of a crate under furniture and personal effects. The individual keys were located in a crate under a tray of marking pens. The keyboards and individual keys were positively identified to be covered with elephant ivory, which requires a permit to be imported or exported. (Source)

[thedonal]

Perhaps there is more than meets the eye, as suggested in this article-

CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood - Landmark Report

Judging by the criticism on Glassdoor.com, Henry J isn't the most popular of CEOs (indeed-one of the most hated in the country?)- he clearly does himself no favours at all in that press interview. And there's no smoke without fire, but there seems to be another smell here too...

There's a lot of worry about regarding travelling in and out of the US with guitars on the back of this. Not sure how far enforcement will extend though.

I'm sure it'll be an excuse for more Gibson prices hikes (like they're not expensive enough already!)