Mother bear kills cub and then itself

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

Cool, thanks bro.

So glad i have your permission to stop.

By the way when someone says "I don't give a shit anymore" That typically means they have lost the argument.

[Grand Moff Tim]

I don't like milking bear bile because bears are cool and cute and awesome. Cows, pigs and chickens are stupid and ugly, so who cares?

Trolololololololol.

To be up front about it, I can see how there would be some moral hypcrisy involved in being okay with one and not being okay with the other. My solution? I just don't really care. I'm totally fine with saying that my wants and desires don't jive with everyone elses, and can even be defined as hypocritical and/or wrong according to other people's moral compasses. I won't try to make excuses for it. I'll just say I eat meat, and if it's morally wrong, I don't really give a shit .

It's sorta like the whole music piracy "debate" (lol). People can come up with resons why it shouldn't be illegal and the industry needs to change until they're blue in the face, but it's still illegal. Instead of making excuses or arguing in its favor, I'm fine just saying "Yeah, it's illegal. I don't care."

Yeah, eating meat can be viewed as immoral. I don't care. Simple as.

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

I don't like milking bear bile because bears are cool and cute and awesome. Cows, pigs and chickens are stupid and ugly, so who cares?

Trolololololololol.

To be up front about it, I can see how there would be some moral hypcrisy involved in being okay with one and not being okay with the other. My solution? I just don't really care. I'm totally fine with saying that my wants and desires don't jive with everyone elses, and can even be defined as hypocritical and/or wrong according to other people's moral compasses. I won't try to make excuses for it. I'll just say I eat meat, and if it's morally wrong, I don't really give a shit .

It's sorta like the whole music piracy "debate" (lol). People can come up with resons why it shouldn't be illegal and the industry needs to change until they're blue in the face, but it's still illegal. Instead of making excuses or arguing in its favor, I'm fine just saying "Yeah, it's illegal. I don't care."

Yeah, eating meat can be viewed as immoral. I don't care. Simple as.

At least somebody with guts to say it, instead of trying to argue against it!

[Demiurge]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

To be up front about it, I can see how there would be some moral hypcrisy involved in being okay with one and not being okay with the other. My solution? I just don't really care. I'm totally fine with saying that my wants and desires don't jive with everyone elses, and can even be defined as hypocritical and/or wrong according to other people's moral compasses. I won't try to make excuses for it. I'll just say I eat meat, and if it's morally wrong, I don't really give a shit .

This is, essentially, what we need to do to be sane!

You can sit in your home, look at everything around you, and wonder where it came from and what effect its production has on the world. Under what conditions were the computer on my desk, the cellphone sitting nearby, the clothes on my back, the guitar on my lap, the chair under my ass, and even my desk itself produced under? Are the human workers treated well? Do the respective factories pollute the environment? Did the production of power for the factories, shops, or even the computer that I'm typing on- is that harming the environment? Is a lifestyle such that I have the luxury of thinking about these things and having these nice things- is this causing others to not have the opportunity to have the same? This can go on and on and on...

...And chances are, there is someone out there who will make the case that yes- your consumer items, your electricity, and your standard of living came at the expense of the life or the dignity of another living thing- plant or animal. Of course, eating another living thing is probably the most obvious example: eating a chicken wing is immediate, while the implications of a worldwide economy that allows me to own and afford my PC while others starve is not.

It's maddening, because it is truly impossible to live a "cruelty-free," aseptic life. In some ways, to be sane is to stuff the guilt away. We can do what we can- trying to make some conscientious lifestyle decisions. It's fine that people try to eat diets that do not stress the environment and harm others- it takes a lot of discipline, but ultimately it's a personal decision that really doesn't reverse everything else.

TL;DR: if we're supposed to be considered guilty for all that we do and consume as humans, then we're all horrible by nature. If a person cherry-picks one or two things that he/she thinks are harmless- that's great- but that just makes him/her a few percentage points less horrible than everyone else. Cheers for being 2% less horrible or less hypocritical, but I want to be 0.5% less horrible by being worried about bears.

[Dan]

[Grand Moff Tim]

Originally Posted by Plug

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

[Grand Moff Tim]

Originally Posted by Plug

[vampiregenocide]

Well I'm glad this ended well sort of.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Well I'm glad this ended well sort of.

[daemon barbeque]

Sorry for the stubbornnes guys. Since Orb is gone, somebody had to do it.
BTW, Sic called me a homophobe. How somebody can be homophobe and post in this forum frequently?

[shredguitar7]

jesus christ, how is this even real... ill stick with living in upstate new york, where if you see a bear you ....ing run your ass off instead of trying to squeeze its ....ing taint for magical juice.. sick ....s..

[Origin]

Torturous cruelty to bears for holistic medicine...so basically they live their entire lives in agony and misery for absolute bullshit nothingness. I wanna puke.

[TheHandOfStone]

If Chinese culture were completely dominated by traditional medicine, it's unlikely that this story would have been reported. This gets back to what AoA alluded to earlier when discussing negativity in the news: media outlets ultimately cover only that which is profitable. If everyone were "for" this practice, this story would have been marginalized like those of the West's animal cruelty. The fact that this bear's plight was viewed as "profitable" gives me hope that there is a significant portion of the Chinese population that can empathize with the bears. Maybe I'm being unrealistic, but obviously whoever covered the story thought it would have a strong emotional impact.

[ghstofperdition]

Wow, just read 6 pages of pointless debate when I couldve done more useful things with my time. Like work on a bear bile farm.


Since we went down this road, Ill come right out and say it:
I eat meat and do not give two shits and a handshake if you dont like it. I myself have assisted in the raising and butchering of animals. Sorry to say, but pain is a shitty side effect of being killed. Pain is the body's way of informing the brain that it is under attack. So the cleanest and most human way Ive seen of killing an animal is putting a bullet in their head. The brain itself feels no pain, and if done right, can paralyze them so that their throes of death are at a bare minimum. And how else am I gonna eat the damn thing? Alive? I dunno, but my twisted morals see that as just too damn cruel.
If vegans wanna live off of tofu and wheatgrass, go for it. Just dont expect me to stop eating meat anytime soon.

The tangents in this thread have made the following sense to me:

Bear kills cub to prevent suffering then offs itself = .... YOU MEAT EATERS! NO, .... YOU VEGANS!

Which makes about as much sense to me as:
Apple = Recliner

Maybe the discussion would be more interesting if we started talking about the cognitive processes of bears and how they seem to have a higher understanding of ethics than was previously thought. Or we could always talk about wanking each other to get our daily protein. Both those have more potential for entertainment and for actually getting somewhere.

[TheHandOfStone]

The wanking thing actually sort of did come up a few pages ago.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Brinks a whole new meaning to the "milking industry"

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Wow, just read 6 pages of pointless debate when I couldve done more useful things with my time. Like work on a bear bile farm.


Since we went down this road, Ill come right out and say it:
I eat meat and do not give two shits and a handshake if you dont like it. I myself have assisted in the raising and butchering of animals. Sorry to say, but pain is a shitty side effect of being killed. Pain is the body's way of informing the brain that it is under attack. So the cleanest and most human way Ive seen of killing an animal is putting a bullet in their head. The brain itself feels no pain, and if done right, can paralyze them so that their throes of death are at a bare minimum. And how else am I gonna eat the damn thing? Alive? I dunno, but my twisted morals see that as just too damn cruel.
If vegans wanna live off of tofu and wheatgrass, go for it. Just dont expect me to stop eating meat anytime soon.

The tangents in this thread have made the following sense to me:

Bear kills cub to prevent suffering then offs itself = .... YOU MEAT EATERS! NO, .... YOU VEGANS!

Which makes about as much sense to me as:
Apple = Recliner

Maybe the discussion would be more interesting if we started talking about the cognitive processes of bears and how they seem to have a higher understanding of ethics than was previously thought. Or we could always talk about wanking each other to get our daily protein. Both those have more potential for entertainment and for actually getting somewhere.

Yeah, the whole vegan argument actually did have a rightful place here, though. So, cool.

Being proud doesn't mean ignorance isn't obvious, and it certainly doesn't mean anybody else gives a shit. Facts were brought up, and if your desires and habits don't agree with those facts, then you can ignore the facts all you want. That doesn't make the facts any less substantial, and it certainly doesn't make the condescension anymore impressive. But you're right, this is all about entertainment.............

[JPMike]

Psychotic Disorders are hitting animals.

Nice, got a packet of Xanax??

[ghstofperdition]

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

Brings a whole new meaning to the "milking industry"

Indeed. But remember, we have to milk you in the most humane way possible. We wouldnt want you to come and go at the same time.


@Adam
You know I got respect for ya man, but just from what I read, you were among the people making the LEAST sense in this whole discussion. It went from being about bears to not believing what "THEY" tell you. And Im not disagreeing with those viewpoints, but mentioning that they dont exactly fit with the topic at hand. By all means, make a new thread for it, and provided that I have anything worth contributing, Id be happy to discuss it with you. Hell, hit up my inbox if you want. I just dont want to see a thread be needlessly closed because we all cant act our age and not our shoe size and stay on topic.


And no, Im not ignorant to the issues; just apathetic. Big difference. Its sad that bears are being tortured, but its not my place to tell a sovereign nation what it can or cannot do in its own borders. Their way of doing things is screwy and ....ed up to me, but Im sure they feel the same way about westerners. If this crap happened inside the US, you can bet Id be among the first to protest. Does this story bother and upset me? Yes. Does the fact that there is nothing I can do about it piss me off? You bet. Do I see any need for this to turn into a discussion regarding the meat industry? Not really. All it does is demonstrate that people with social agendas will come out the woodwork and attach them to a discussion, regardless of the topic at hand. Hence why I felt it prudent to call it out, albeit in my typical cynical and asshole-ish fashion.


I feel that if anybody takes a debate as more serious than a friendly, entertaining discussion among other mature adults, they have communication issues that need to be addressed. And possibly some prep H for their butthurt.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

@Adam
You know I got respect for ya man, but just from what I read, you were among the people making the LEAST sense in this whole discussion. It went from being about bears to not believing what "THEY" tell you. And Im not disagreeing with those viewpoints, but mentioning that they dont exactly fit with the topic at hand. By all means, make a new thread for it, and provided that I have anything worth contributing, Id be happy to discuss it with you. Hell, hit up my inbox if you want. I just dont want to see a thread be needlessly closed because we all cant act our age and not our shoe size and stay on topic.

Naturally, you and I are dudes

However, you completely misread or did not read this thread. I absolutely never blamed anything on "them". Vampiregeneocide said that most humans are bad, and I said that he only believes that because stories about bad people are the ones that sell in the news. Period. Thats where that discussion ended. You're taking things way way out context, making up parts of the story, then accusing me of doing those things.

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

And no, Im not ignorant to the issues; just apathetic. Big difference. Its sad that bears are being tortured, but its not my place to tell a sovereign nation what it can or cannot do in its own borders. Their way of doing things is screwy and ....ed up to me, but Im sure they feel the same way about westerners. If this crap happened inside the US, you can bet Id be among the first to protest. Does this story bother and upset me? Yes. Does the fact that there is nothing I can do about it piss me off? You bet. Do I see any need for this to turn into a discussion regarding the meat industry? Not really. All it does is demonstrate that people with social agendas will come out the woodwork and attach them to a discussion, regardless of the topic at hand. Hence why I felt it prudent to call it out, albeit in my typical cynical and asshole-ish fashion.

Actually, there has been no hijacking or advantage taken by social agendas. The whole argument is that animal products are not necessary and therefore, should not be produced. Whether it bem leather, bear bile, or steak, the argument is exactly the same. Being vegan doesn't just entail diet.. Its a responsibility. This is entirely why there is a debate here. Again, you didn't really read this thread. Everything I've said here has made complete, perfect sense and is in direct context of the thread. Not to sound harsh, but brush up on your late night comprehension a bit

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

I feel that if anybody takes a debate as more serious than a friendly, entertaining discussion among other mature adults, they have communication issues that need to be addressed. And possibly some prep H for their butthurt.

Aside from the jokes directed at a couple if these guys, my arguments and discussion have been friendly.

[sol niger 333]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Wow, just read 6 pages of pointless debate when I couldve done more useful things with my time. Like work on a bear bile farm.


Since we went down this road, Ill come right out and say it:
I eat meat and do not give two shits and a handshake if you dont like it. I myself have assisted in the raising and butchering of animals. Sorry to say, but pain is a shitty side effect of being killed. Pain is the body's way of informing the brain that it is under attack. So the cleanest and most human way Ive seen of killing an animal is putting a bullet in their head. The brain itself feels no pain, and if done right, can paralyze them so that their throes of death are at a bare minimum. And how else am I gonna eat the damn thing? Alive? I dunno, but my twisted morals see that as just too damn cruel.
If vegans wanna live off of tofu and wheatgrass, go for it. Just dont expect me to stop eating meat anytime soon.

The tangents in this thread have made the following sense to me:

Bear kills cub to prevent suffering then offs itself = .... YOU MEAT EATERS! NO, .... YOU VEGANS!

Which makes about as much sense to me as:
Apple = Recliner

Maybe the discussion would be more interesting if we started talking about the cognitive processes of bears and how they seem to have a higher understanding of ethics than was previously thought. Or we could always talk about wanking each other to get our daily protein. Both those have more potential for entertainment and for actually getting somewhere.

And you complained about everyone else's posts being irrelevant? If you can't join the dots on how the industry of supplying certain animal products, meat included is a parallel to the farming of bear bile you are missing a few screws. Seems to me the connection is obvious. If we're questioning relevance I'd hazard a guess that your boastful apathy and myopia would DEFINITELY qualify as irrelevant. Your rhetoric is a well trampled cliche

[daemon barbeque]

The Meat Industry is pretty much very well compareable to the bear-bile industry.

I keep it short.
Both keep animals in extreme small cages. Go to a chicken farm and see for your self, if they even ever let you inside!
Both see animals suffer and see it as "normal". Bear has infections and pain, so does the chicken, plus, they don't even have right to sleep and the surface they stand on literally cuts their feet 24/7. No healing is possible.

Even just 2 of those points are enough to show the similarities. It is apples with apples, torture with torture. If anyone would raise their own animals on an open farm with love and care, and slaughter painless and fast, that would be okay for me and I would shut up. But all of you know that this is not the case. An if it would be the case, only 1/80 of people could eat meat. There would be not enough room.

[vampiregenocide]

Like I mentioned, not all meat farms are like that. In the UK at least we have very strict standards and any farms that don't meet those standards get ripped apart by the media. Hence I don't really by into that argument, at least for this country. I know not everywhere has the same animal rights laws as we do so I can't speak for everywhere. I know what you're saying is true and does happen far too often, but there are plenty of farms that do things humanely and fairly. That's why I've disagreed with you so much. I can't speak for every farm in the UK, but I know most of them have a very good track record. I've been to a few. There is more and more pressure by consumers in the UK to have access to free-range, organic, local produce and this in turn puts pressure on larger companies to do things in a similar manner. This is why I don't think I am morally inferior about eating meat, because the horrific situation which is the basis for your hatred of the meat industry is not that common here.