Mother bear kills cub and then itself

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

Aside from its delicious, delicious taste, I find that a good reason to eat meat is just to spite people who say stuff like this.

So you chose your side

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I am not using Wiki to prove my point, I put numbers from an easy source. There are more in depth sources, but you should be ready to move your ass and go to library to read them, which I think would not happen.

Yes you are.

Unless somehow posting a wikipedia article that's completely relevant to your arguement is now not considered using it to prove something...

I would like to live in your world. Where I can affably look down on everyone else, see my point of view as the only correct one, and no one else matters.

That's ....ing utopia, man.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

1) I don't like peas.
2) Giant Japanese peas freak me out
3) I think Sushi, and things from the sushi craze, are stupid. Except Wasabi.
4) I'm not a weeaboo.

I'm surprised that it being upset about the bears was brought up as questionable out of respect for culture, but this was let slide.

[Sicarius]

Probably because at the time we were joking and having fun.

Then Capt. Vegan came back and started his bullshit again.

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

Yes you are.

Unless somehow posting a wikipedia article that's completely relevant to your arguement is now not considered using it to prove something...

I would like to live in your world. Where I can affably look down on everyone else, see my point of view as the only correct one, and no one else matters.

That's ....ing utopia, man.

Well, I don't look down on everyone, I do it just on you. You come to a discussion, with no argument what so ever, write some bullshit, tell me to get out, pointing me and telling " .... that guy", than state something totally absurd about proteins and other stuff.

Look, the article is very relative about the effects of meat production, but understanding that wpuld need well fed braincells.
It also dictates someone have to want to understand and learn. If both points are not given, you end up posting stupid and irrelevant shit.

But the most important point, what I have to post for the 3 time in one thread is this.

It is not important what I or You think. Opinions do not matter on this topic. There are facts and that is that. You either see them and aknowledge them, or you ignore them. Ignoring them causes the food industry to do shit as they like, and that is not better than what Chinese do with the bear.

So Opinions do not matter. I don't fight for my opinion, but for the future of this lovely earth.

Now go and read something useful like Protein sources and effects on body, and eat some Soybeans. You definetly could profit from some Lecithin.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

Well, I don't look down on everyone, I do it just on you. You come to a discussion, with no argument what so ever, write some bullshit, tell me to get out, pointing me and telling " .... that guy", than state something totally absurd about proteins and other stuff.

Look, the article is very relative about the effects of meat production, but understanding that wpuld need well fed braincells.
It also dictates someone have to want to understand and learn. If both points are not given, you end up posting stupid and irrelevant shit.

But the most important point, what I have to post for the 3 time in one thread is this.

It is not important what I or You think. Opinions do not matter on this topic. There are facts and that is that. You either see them and aknowledge them, or you ignore them. Ignoring them causes the food industry to do shit as they like, and that is not better than what Chinese do with the bear.

So Opinions do not matter. I don't fight for my opinion, but for the future of this lovely earth.

Now go and read something useful like Protein sources and effects on body, and eat some Soybeans. You definetly could profit from some Lecithin.

You are the greatest wall, ever. Seriously, well done.

I did say, ".... that guy." But I'm guessing by the way you took it, you're homophobic, and completely narcissistic. Instead of taking it as a generality about your view, your want and need to prove yourself right caused it to be taken in a homosexual way.

I applaud your lack of comprehension, your unequivocal god-complex, and your Xenophobia.

You're completely fighting for your opinions, each and every post you make.

You, truthfully, are too ingrained into your own thought process to not be able to differentiate between killing an animal in a few short moments, and keeping an animal in a small cage, for the whole of it's life with a hole in it's stomach. Living in constant pain.

Those are two completely different things. If you honestly think that whatever you are doing, is so much better than everyone else, fine. Unplug your computer, go off grid, and stay in a commune with other like minded people.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

You are the greatest wall, ever. Seriously, well done.

You really have done anything but insult him and be dismissive and refuse to truly respond to what he's saying, when people do that there's not much more he can really do.



And to respond to all the 'VEGETARIANS AND VEGANS ARE SO PREACHY, O MAH GAWD!" in here: I've been vegan for just shy of 3 years. I've had people who didn't know this for months after I met them, and whenever the subject finally did come up, the first thing out of their mouths is" Well I don't have a problem with vegetarians, but they're too preachy and I like meat, and they try and tell me what to do, NOT GOIN' TELL ME WHAT TO DO!"
Really you've know me for half a year and you didn't even know I didn't eat meat until just now, I'm the preachy one? There are douches on all sides of the aisle, that doesn't define either side.

And it's kind of unfortunate that this turned into a big eat meat VS don't eat meat debate, when the point isn't (or at least my intention in pointing it out) wasn't "Stop eating meat" just that factory farming, and face it that's where most people's sources of meat/dairy/eggs and such originate, is quite often just as horrible as what's being done to the bears. Arguing that food production is 'more important' than drinking bear bile to maintain an erection (or whatever it's for ) is really an argument over what you value the worth as: you want to eat meat because you want to and think you need it, these people want to drink bear bile because they want to and think they need it. The point is, there's a definite similarity, even if you refuse to accept that they're exactly the same, it's impossible to deny that they are (at least in the cases of disgusting agribusiness factory farming techniques) multiple similarities: what you do with that fact/how you react to it is up to you. You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.


I feel like Explorer for asking this , but would anyone think it'd be fine if they had 'more humane' bear bile extraction plants? I'm seriously interested in you guys opinions on that.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

You really have done anything but insult him and be dismissive and refuse to truly respond to what he's saying, when people do that there's not much more he can really do.



And to respond to all the 'VEGETARIANS AND VEGANS ARE SO PREACHY, O MAH GAWD!" in here: I've been vegan for just shy of 3 years. I've had people who didn't know this for months after I met them, and whenever the subject finally did come up, the first thing out of their mouths is" Well I don't have a problem with vegetarians, but they're too preachy and I like meat, and they try and tell me what to do, NOT GOIN' TELL ME WHAT TO DO!"
Really you've know me for half a year and you didn't even know I didn't eat meat until just now, I'm the preachy one? There are douches on all sides of the aisle, that doesn't define either side.

And it's kind of unfortunate that this turned into a big eat meat VS don't eat meat debate, when the point isn't (or at least my intention in pointing it out) wasn't "Stop eating meat" just that factory farming, and face it that's where most people's sources of meat/dairy/eggs and such originate, is quite often just as horrible as what's being done to the bears. Arguing that food production is 'more important' than drinking bear bile to maintain an erection (or whatever it's for ) is really an argument over what you value the worth as: you want to eat meat because you want to and think you need it, these people want to drink bear bile because they want to and think they need it. The point is, there's a definite similarity, even if you refuse to accept that they're exactly the same, it's impossible to deny that they are (at least in the cases of disgusting agribusiness factory farming techniques) multiple similarities: what you do with that fact/how you react to it is up to you. You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.


I feel like Exlporer for asking this , but would anyone think it'd be fine if they had 'more humane' bear bile extraction plants? I'm seriously interested in you guys opinions on that.

As the article said, this practice is going out of style and the bile has been replaces by a number of TCM producers with other herbs and synthetics.

I have responded as reasonably, and rationally as I can. The exact next post I made after the one you neg-rep'd me for, was completely rational, explained my stance on the topic, and why I completely disagreed with the guy.

You may not be a preachy Vegan/Vegitarian, but obviously the other person is.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

As the article said, this practice is going out of style and the bile has been replaces by a number of TCM producers with other herbs and synthetics.

I have responded as reasonably, and rationally as I can. The exact next post I made after the one you neg-rep'd me for, was completely rational, explained my stance on the topic, and why I completely disagreed with the guy.

You may not be a preachy Vegan/Vegitarian, but obviously the other person is.

Well, couldn't it also be argued that since there are more vegans/vegetarians lately and with all of the different meat substitutes being made available, that eating meat is going out of style too?

EDIT FOR CLARITY/MORE QUESTIONS: If the best option for the bears seems to be moving to synthetic or herb based 'bile', why wouldn't that be viewed as a good way to move for meat production as well?

EDITNUMBATWO: And no, I'm not trying to be facetious or snide, I really want to know the reasoning/logic for it. It seems like if it's not okay to continue gathering the bile and just do it in a more humane way from the bears and that synthetics/herbs are the best way to go about it, logic would dictate that that'd be the way to move when it comes to other animals suffering as well, so why not?

[Sicarius]

The Vegan/Vegetarian craze is only a fad. It will pass in a few years.

Protip: You are still a minority, so please, stop trying to force a change onto the rest of the species.

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

You are the greatest wall, ever. Seriously, well done.

I did say, ".... that guy." But I'm guessing by the way you took it, you're homophobic, and completely narcissistic. Instead of taking it as a generality about your view, your want and need to prove yourself right caused it to be taken in a homosexual way.

I applaud your lack of comprehension, your unequivocal god-complex, and your Xenophobia.

You're completely fighting for your opinions, each and every post you make.

You, truthfully, are too ingrained into your own thought process to not be able to differentiate between killing an animal in a few short moments, and keeping an animal in a small cage, for the whole of it's life with a hole in it's stomach. Living in constant pain.

Those are two completely different things. If you honestly think that whatever you are doing, is so much better than everyone else, fine. Unplug your computer, go off grid, and stay in a commune with other like minded people.

Except the whole low level insult, you finally made and argument.
You say that an animal with a hole in the stomack for the whole life is not equal to killing an animal in instance.
An egg Chicken lives exactly in a cage like that. Mostly can't even turn 1 round because of the lack of space. The cage ripps away the skin of the feet, leaves an open wound, and sometimes leads to leg loss. Not only that, they have to live 24 hours under light, no sleep is given. Normally they would sleep 8 hours. This is torture, and as bad as the one they do with the bear.

I really suggest you to read more. You might not get more intelligent, but maybe learn to speak with at least minimum knowledge.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

The Vegan/Vegetarian craze is only a fad. It will pass in a few years.

Protip: You are still a minority, so please, stop trying to force a change onto the rest of the species.

It's been around since at least 1944, and that's just when the vegan society was founded.

Protip: asking questions based on facts and asking you to support your views so I can understand what your logic is isn't asking you to change, it's how discussion works.

EDIT: Bbq, while I do agree with you, I do feel like you're being a bit condescending, but with as frustrating and rude as Sicarius is being, I can't really say that I blame you.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, so minorities aren't allowed to voice their opinions and try and change things? I guess slavery is back on guys, to the fields.

Talking to you sucks.

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

It's been around since at least 1944, and that's just when the vegan society was founded.

Protip: asking questions based on facts and asking you to support your views so I can understand what your logic is isn't asking you to change, it's how discussion works.

EDIT: Bbq, while I do agree with you, I do feel like you're being a bit condescending, but with as frustrating and rude as Sicarius is being, I can't really say that I blame you.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, so minorities aren't allowed to try and change thing? I guess slavery is back on guys, to the fields.

Talking to you sucks.

Yeah man I should actually lay the keyboard down. It's just me being Lazy, since getting down from my hi-horse needs to much energy

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

It's been around since at least 1944, and that's just when the vegan society was founded.

Protip: asking questions based on facts and asking you to support your views so I can understand what your logic is isn't asking you to change, it's how discussion works.

EDIT: Bbq, while I do agree with you, I do feel like you're being a bit condescending, but with as frustrating and rude as Sicarius is being, I can't really say that I blame you.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, so minorities aren't allowed to voice their opinions and try and change things? I guess slavery is back on guys, to the fields.

Talking to you sucks.

Apparently the minority is allowed to insult and tell other people what to do, how to feel and what to eat.

So don't talk to me. I'd be happy.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

Apparently the minority is allowed to insult and tell other people what to do, how to feel and what to eat.

So don't talk to me. I'd be happy.

Once again you ignore what I actually said, refuse to respond to it or discuss it, and resort to baseless insults.

Oh, and it's not me telling you what to do, as much as I'd like to claim I invented organized debate, I wasn't involved. Thanks for the compliment though.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

Except the whole low level insult, you finally made and argument.
You say that an animal with a hole in the stomack for the whole life is not equal to killing an animal in instance.
An egg Chicken lives exactly in a cage like that. Mostly can't even turn 1 round because of the lack of space. The cage ripps away the skin of the feet, leaves an open wound, and sometimes leads to leg loss. Not only that, they have to live 24 hours under light, no sleep is given. Normally they would sleep 8 hours. This is torture, and as bad as the one they do with the bear.

I really suggest you to read more. You might not get more intelligent, but maybe learn to speak with at least minimum knowledge.

My vocabulary in the last few posts have been impeccable, and extremely intelligent. Just because I'm not the most well read on a subject matter I couldn't give less of a .... about, doesn't mean I'm an idiot.

So take your elitist views, and shove it.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

My vocabulary in the last few posts have been impeccable, and extremely intelligent. Just because I'm not the most well read on a subject matter I couldn't give less of a .... about, doesn't mean I'm an idiot.

So take your elitist views, and shove it.

If you care about it being done to the bears, why couldn't you give less of a .... about the exact same thing happening to other animals?

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

Once again you ignore what I actually said, refuse to respond to it or discuss it, and resort to baseless insults.

Oh, and it's not me telling you what to do, as much as I'd like to claim I invented organized debate, I wasn't involved. Thanks for the compliment though.

This hasn't been a "discussion" since you two decided to gang up on me.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

If you care about it being done to the bears, why couldn't you give less of a .... about the exact same thing happening to other animals?

What other animals are we talking about?

What other animal is kept in a cage where it's gall bladder milked daily? Because that is the only "exact same thing" that could be happening to the animal.

If you want to talk about the slaughter of animals for the use of public consumption that's not the "exact same thing".

[highlordmugfug]

Playing the victim card doesn't help your case, why won't you answer any questions and defend yourself instead of attacking him or me?
EDIT: I really want to know what you think the differences are, and how you arrived at that conclusion, is asking you what you think and why asking too much?

[Sicarius]

Are animals kept in cages to be fed, then slaughtered to feed humans? Yes, of course.
Is this the same condition every single farm keeps the animals? No, it's a fraction of the number, not even 1/2 of them do it.

Do I see a difference between an animal kept in constant pain until it finally dies from the excruciating pain, and an animal that's kept in similar conditions but is killed to feed people? While there are some similarities that can not be denied, it's hardly the exact same thing.

Again, this isn't the condition on most of the farms. Things are better on some, and worse on others.

Is this going to stop me from eating meats, eggs, and dairy? Not at all. I don't drink milk, I hardly ever eat eggs, and I typically only eat lean beef, or turkey products. I despise pork.

These dietary choices aren't because of how the animal is treated, it's just what I like, and what I don't like. I hate peas and had to drink soy milk as a child, I don't like either type.

I never asked that you define why you came to these conclusions, I never asked that you explain why you're a Vegan/Vegetarian.

I find it laughable that I'm asked to.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

Are animals kept in cages to be fed, then slaughtered to feed humans? Yes, of course.
Is this the same condition every single farm keeps the animals? No, it's a fraction of the number, not even 1/2 of them do it.

Do I see a difference between an animal kept in constant pain to get something people want from it until it finally dies from the excruciating pain, and an animal that's kept in similar conditions but is killed to feed people? While there are some similarities that can not be denied, it's hardly the exact same thing.

Again, this isn't the condition on most of the farms. Things are better on some, and worse on others.

I'd guess that it's probably higher than half considering the number of animals that are involved in factory farming, but I'm not sure of the exact numbers and I don't have time to research it right now (gotta get to work soon).

I added in a bolded part just to emphasize another way they're similar (both things are happening to get something from the animals that humans want).

So am I correct in assuming that we both agree that the places that are producing animal products need to at least take strides to keep them all at a high standard (no crush cages, no beak snipping, no grinding baby males chicks to death, etc.)?
And I'll add to that, making efforts to pollute less with pharmaceuticals, animal waste runoff, and the like?

EDIT TO RESPOND TO YOUR EDIT: If you had asked me why I made that decision, I would have answered you instead of complaining that you were picking on me, and ignoring the issue, I have no beef (lol pun lol) with talking about my reasons. I don't think it's laughable at all to ask why people made the decisions they made in relation to topics that are currently being discussed.

EDIT AGAIN: And I really just asking you to defend your position on why the two acts were so different.

[Sicarius]

I don't give a shit anymore, dude.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

I don't give a shit anymore, dude.

You gave enough of a shit to get really defensive about it and continue posting about it

If you really don't care about a topic, then you wouldn't have posted/responded to all of this. It's childish to say you don't care just because you don't feel like having to discuss, support, or explain yourself. If you're done talking and don't care, then by all means stop posting.

[Sicarius]

Cool, thanks bro.

So glad i have your permission to stop.

By the way when someone says "I don't give a shit anymore" That typically means they have lost interest in the argument.