Mother bear kills cub and then itself

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

You cannot .... me dude, you can't even call me "that guy". Get some manners.
There is no perspective abaout right or wrong. Your way is wrong and that is well supported by facts and numbers. If you have anything to add as an argument or anything intelligent to this thread do it. If not, stop insulting or being an ass. Insulting Vegetarians and vegans hardly makes any of your rants acceptable. It's like Christians rants about Atheist elitism when we discuss about priest rapes.

You have completely missed the point. As person who is not a citizen of China, you do not fully understand their rights and customs. You look at them with outside eyes and judge them.

Yes what they're doing it wrong, IN OUR EYES, BEING CITIZENS NOT OF CHINA. But what they're doing isn't wrong in their eyes.

The white man's burden is pretty strong, still today, apparently. Because you're willing to cast down judgement on anyone who's different from you.

Stop judging everyone who's different from you, and attempt, to look at it from their perspective.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

It has been a staple of the human diet for as long as we have had tools. There is a reason why early human tribes were described as "HUNTERS AND GATHERERS". Even early man understood what apparently, you ....ing don't. For a healthy and balanced diet, meats and vegetables are the best way.

If some poor ....er is only going to eat meat he's going to ....ing die of a coronary. And if some dick vegan is only going to eat veggies he's going to be devoid of essential proteins, unless they love living off of a strict vitamin regiment.

Wrong. There's plenty of viable, natural substitutes for meat. Throughout most of human history, man didn't possess this knowledge. Now we do, and there's no excuse anymore. Either way, though, the excuse that we've done it forever doesn't justify your hunger for meat. In fact, that's the number one thing I'm going to label as sheerly stupid in this whole debate.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

As a meat eater, I can feel sorry for an animal that's left in a ....ing crush cage. It doesn't matter. Human emotion transcends diet.

Cows slaughtered to feed communities and counties =! A bear left in a ....ing cage all it's life.

COMPASSION does not see dietary lines.

That is not the point... Read what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is proven fact that you don't need meat to survive. You're not retarded or crippled, so you're perfectly capable of surviving without eating meat or using animal products. This is irrefutable fact. So, with that in mind, arguing in favor of animal rights while continuing to use animal products, even though you're needlessly feeding the industry that benefits from their slaughter, is completely illogical and silly. That's all. If you don't understand that position, I don't know what to tell you.

[Sicarius]

That's it? The same old tired argument over and over?

It's obviously not too much of a deal if you haven't become a vegan?


You're seriously making my head hurt. Where are these facts that are so Irrefutable?

I don't know what else to tell you. That's the human emotion, dude. I eat meat and do not feel guilt. But I can, and regularly do, feel compassion, and sadness for an animal that has a hole cut into it's stomach, so it's gall bladder can be milked. But I'm not going to stop eating something just because there's some new magical bean that takes care of everything for me. I can't live off of nothing but vegetables. I don't want to look like Davey Havok from A.F.I. I don't want to be some pretencious self-righteous asshole, who doesn't eat meat because it hurts animals. And maybe that's not what I'll actually think, but that's the connotation that's carried by vegans and vegetarians.

This isn't about me eating a burger and saying, "We need to treat the cows better! ....in' A!". I won't say that, because that would label me a hypocrite.
What I'm saying, While I eat a turkey sammich is, "Man, that's really terrible about what happened to that bear. At least she was able to save her cub from that kind of life. It really is a shame."

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

You have completely missed the point. As person who is not a citizen of China, you do not fully understand their rights and customs. You look at them with outside eyes and judge them.

Yes what they're doing it wrong, IN OUR EYES, BEING CITIZENS NOT OF CHINA. But what they're doing isn't wrong in their eyes.

The white man's burden is pretty strong, still today, apparently. Because you're willing to cast down judgement on anyone who's different from you.

Stop judging everyone who's different from you, and attempt, to look at it from their perspective.

Again, you miss one important point. That point is called logic. I am not interested what chinese think, what Danes think when they kill dolphins, whales and seals for fun. I also do not accept the double standard between people eating farmed animals and the bear. Both where horribly tortured for a "human reason".
All of it is wrong, destructive and unsustainable. My opinion does not matter either. facts are facts.

BTW, you are totally wrong about diet. People where living without meat for thousands of years. perfectly. So good that they could even advance intelligently and create tools. Their teeth, intestines, hormones are all perfectly tuned for plant digestion.
I know what I talking about.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

That's it? The same old tired argument over and over?

It's obviously not too much of a deal if you haven't become a vegan?

So, instead of being a hypocrite, why don't you drop it?

Because it has nothing to do with being a vegan. The same old "tired" argument keeps being used because your responses are clearly indicating that you're either ignoring the same old "tired" argument, or that you're too stubborn to comprehend it. It's logic and fact, not the opinion of an elitist.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I am not an elitist at all. I clearly put an argument stating that the meat industry does the same horrible things, and I can prove that. Come with an argument against it, so we can discuss.
I also argue that eating meat as we do today is unsustainable, uneconomic and wrong to for your own health. If you have any argument against it I am all ears.

I currently own a plot of land in which i keep around 20 chickens and ducks. The amount of food i provide these birds with plus the space of land i keep them on is very economical. The birds have a rough laying estimate of around 4 years before they pass that phase and just turn into pets.

If i keep these hens for roughly 3 and a half years a piece and they lay on average 2 eggs each a day each hen will lay roughly 2550 eggs in its 'shelf life'. If i sell these eggs for £1 per 6 pack (which is my going rate) then each hen makes roughly £425. The hen feed is around £25 per bag which lasts all 20 chickens 2 weeks. I make on average around £40 per week on egg selling (if you don’t include the ones i give away) so im making on average £55 every two weeks by keeping these animals.

Seen as i bring up my own chicks as well there is no cost included from buying fertilized eggs. So i find that VERY economical. The hens have a good life and when i need to eat them i can. Their waste is also placed in my fertilizer bin for the vegetables and plans i grow. Because their waste is full of nutrients my plants grow stronger than they would if i didn't have them there as the soil is rich.

I'm sorry you were saying something about it being unsustainable and uneconomic? As for bad for my health i get good protein from the birds and their waste helps my other plants to grow so i can get my other needed intake of nutrients. I think you will find I have proved you wrong on pretty much every category you mentioned there. It keeps me active and I know the food I eat comes from a good source.

Please, tell me I’m wrong here? Chicken for dinner it is!

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

Again, you miss one important point. That point is called logic. I am not interested what chinese think, what Danes think when they kill dolphins, whales and seals for fun. I also do not accept the double standard between people eating farmed animals and the bear. Both where horribly tortured for a "human reason".
All of it is wrong, destructive and unsustainable. My opinion does not matter either. facts are facts.

BTW, you are totally wrong about diet. People where living without meat for thousands of years. perfectly. So good that they could even advance intelligently and create tools. Their teeth, intestines, hormones are all perfectly tuned for plant digestion.
I know what I talking about.

All I'm trying to say, is that if you were born in China, and you were actually Chinese, you would think completely differently on the subject. But because you aren't, you feel that your "logic" is far superior than theirs.
Yes, you think eating meat is terrible, that's fine. I don't care what you eat, so long as you don't try and tell me or my friends that we're bad people for doing so, and that we have no say so whatsoever, about how we should feel.
And I'm leaving it at that. I don't have the will power, or veggie power, or whatever to keep arguing with you because you're so set in your ways, that you feel it's completely fine to judge everyone.

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Because it has nothing to do with being a vegan. The same old "tired" argument keeps being used because your responses are clearly indicating that you're either ignoring the same old "tired" argument, or that you're too stubborn to comprehend it. It's logic and fact, not the opinion of an elitist.

refresh the thing. I edited it.

[Adam Of Angels]

Chicken does taste good with ranch, though.....................


....wait.

[Hemi-Powered Drone]

I am tired of vegetarians and vegans generalizing the whole meat industry as one thing. You can't do that to something so varied.

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I am not an elitist at all. I clearly put an argument stating that the meat industry does the same horrible things, and I can prove that. Come with an argument against it, so we can discuss.

Yes, there are horrible factory farms which pollute, spread/nurture diseases, and other horrible things. The thing is, though, that's only some farms. There are still family owned farms that are like actual farms, there are "organic" farms that treat their livestock well and don't give them artificial hormones or force feed them food that they can't digest.

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I also argue that eating meat as we do today is unsustainable, uneconomic and wrong to for your own health. If you have any argument against it I am all ears.

You know what? The health food craze recently, with focus on "organic" foods, is actually causing factory farms to lose money and giving proper farms more. I for one prefer "organic" meat, and whenever I get the chance I will choose that over factory meat.

Vegetables can be just as bad as meat, you know. Due to few plants having significant amounts of protein, it's very likely that you at least have a slight protein deficiency. Fibrous vegetables such as lettuce, broccoli, and celery, as well as starches like corn, are difficult or just can't be digested by the human body. The growth of large amounts of single crops leads to water logging of the land, causing salinization of local water supplies, or acidification of the land, eventually rendering the land useless for agricultural use. Vegetable farming is one of the worst offenders of excess water use, as many farms insist on using out dated, inefficient techniques. This excess water use causes increased runoff, picking up nutrients from fertilizers, such as nitrates and phosphorus, that will drain into bodies of water and cause grossly accelerated eutrophication, killing the majority of the lakes organisms and lowering the water quality. You know what fertilizers don't have as much of those nutrients? Natural fertilizers produced as waste by the meat industry.

I know that their are smaller farms that aren't as shitty as the larger ones, but it seems that that doesn't matter to you, does it?

Most of the lower prices of vegetables are just artificial prices set up by the government due to them subsidizing those farms that produce too much of the crop, in reality the prices of meat and vegetables are about the same.

Don't act so high and mighty and say the meat industry is a bad thing, you're just as bad.

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I am not an elitist. Meat or meat products are much more expensive than a vegetarian meal. I am also a Vet and know all the insight and tricks. The horror is there and nobody can deny it. Animals suffer badly in transport or waiting rooms even the farmer was very good and they had a great environment.

There you go generalizing again! Like I said earlier, not everywhere is an inhumane shit hole.

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

I am not arguing against your life style, I just show you how the planet get's ....ed by meat industry and you guys are a part of that.

You say you aren't arguing against our life style when you keep saying that the meat industry is bad, which is the main part of the meat eaters lifestyle.

Why did you feel the need to mention that you weren't an elitist again?

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

Come with some arguments instead of insults, cop-outs or whatever.

There you go.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Chicken does taste good with ranch, though.....................


....wait.

Ew.

It's all about the Chicken Alfredo.

I love the broccoli.

and the chicken.

but broccoli is ....ing awesome.

I love veggetables. I really do. The girls at subway hate me because I get pretty much every vegetable on my "spicy italian" which is made from turkey pepperoni and salami, and I get damn near every vegetable they have. But for me, a salad isn't filling. I'm sure if I barbegued some giant shitaki mushrooms and had a shitaki burger, it'd be filling. But just eating veggies isn't going to cut it, at least not for me.

[Adam Of Angels]

Start eating some decent edamame, and you'll thank me for it.

[Sicarius]

No.

[Adam Of Angels]

Bitch. For real, it's delicious. I used to eat eggs in the morning, but I started eating edamame instead most of the time and it tastes better, makes me feel better, and is easier to absorb (for me a least) so I actually end up getting more protein from it than eggs.

[Sicarius]

1) I don't like peas.
2) Giant Japanese peas freak me out
3) I think Sushi, and things from the sushi craze, are stupid. Except Wasabi.
4) I'm not a weeaboo.

[Adam Of Angels]

It's a soybean, son.

Sushi is for men, so yeah.

[Sicarius]

uh not if you're allergic to fish and hate the taste of cold rice.

Then it's for Weeaboos and hipsters.

[Adam Of Angels]

Only guys with boyfriends are allergic to fish.


I hope we don't get banned.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Only guys with boyfriends are allergic to fish.


I hope we don't get banned.

Ohh you guys

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Only guys with boyfriends are allergic to fish.


I hope we don't get banned.

I don't know what it is. But I almost died the day we buried my grandma.

.... Tilapia. Seriously Anaphlyactic shock sucks.

[BigPhi84]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

.... Tilapia. Seriously Anaphlyactic shock sucks.

Really?!? Tilapia is such a pussy fish. No Flavor at all.



Are you allergic to all seafood?

[BigPhi84]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

You're not retarded or crippled, so you're perfectly capable of surviving without eating meat or using animal products.

So retards and cripples have free reign over meat products? Someone hand me a Hammer! Afterwards, you can call me Ha-PHI-estus (or Vulcan, your choice ).


(LOL, I know. It was in bad taste. Please don't neg-rep me! )

[Sicarius]

Nope.

That's the weird thing. I can eat shrimp, and probably crab and lobster.

but I think it might be whitefish. Like Fish sticks gave me terrible indegestion and heartburn.

Until I found out, closing your airway somewhat, wasn't either of those things.

[Adam Of Angels]

I've said a couple of awful things here, I guess..

I just meant that somebody who is perfectly capable should have no problem being a vegan. I'm neither crippled nor retarded, but I have temporary reasons for not being a vegan.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

There is no perspective abaout right or wrong. Your way is wrong

Usually when such a thing is uttered, the one who said it has already lost. You should come off the high horse a little and think about your word choice. Not getting into the meat debate because it's pointless, but you sure don't help anyone see your side of things with such statements.